Cheapest way to a fast car?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

thedarkwolf

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
8,999
109
106
Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
Thanks darkwolf! I could have sworn that when I researched the TII engines (whe I first discovered how rare and special the LeBaron I bought was) I read about the TII rods being forged as compared to the T1 stock rods being cast. Oh well, my dad had a T1 in his '86 lancer (automatic) and I could not believe how much difference there was with the TII (intercooled) mated to that beefy A555 5-speed. Third gear was my favorite - I swear I could rocket from 30MPH to 85 in about 3 - 3.5 seconds (came in REAL handy for passing cars on the back roads!).

P.S. What current mods/kits are available for the TII engines? My buddy (the current LeBaron owner) is seriously considering restoring it and re-building/modifying the engine.

Well I did leave out a few things. The 87 and older TI engines are very different from the TIIs and 88 and later TIs. The one in your lancer had a way different intake manifold and has a draw through throttle body which means its setup like this
throttle body----turbo-----intake
where the TIIs and 88 and later TIs have a blow through throttle body like so
turbo-----throttlebody-intake
The draw through setups can't be intercooled safely since if a hose blows off you loos throttle controll and go to wide open throttle. People do it anyway though :).

Even the later style TI still feel a lot slower stock than the TII cause they are but you add an intercooler to a TI and and raise the boost to 12-14psi and it will be just as quik if not quiker do to having more torque and a faster spooling turbo.

Go here
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/index.html and read through the turbo database section. Tons of good info including cheap and easy ways to make a lot of power. Also click on the banner at the top of the page and check out some of the things he sales.
 

ScoobMaster

Platinum Member
Jan 17, 2001
2,528
10
81
Originally posted by: thedarkwolf
Originally posted by: ScoobMaster
Thanks darkwolf! I could have sworn that when I researched the TII engines (whe I first discovered how rare and special the LeBaron I bought was) I read about the TII rods being forged as compared to the T1 stock rods being cast. Oh well, my dad had a T1 in his '86 lancer (automatic) and I could not believe how much difference there was with the TII (intercooled) mated to that beefy A555 5-speed. Third gear was my favorite - I swear I could rocket from 30MPH to 85 in about 3 - 3.5 seconds (came in REAL handy for passing cars on the back roads!).

P.S. What current mods/kits are available for the TII engines? My buddy (the current LeBaron owner) is seriously considering restoring it and re-building/modifying the engine.

Well I did leave out a few things. The 87 and older TI engines are very different from the TIIs and 88 and later TIs. The one in your lancer had a way different intake manifold and has a draw through throttle body which means its setup like this
throttle body----turbo-----intake
where the TIIs and 88 and later TIs have a blow through throttle body like so
turbo-----throttlebody-intake
The draw through setups can't be intercooled safely since if a hose blows off you loos throttle controll and go to wide open throttle. People do it anyway though :).

Even the later style TI still feel a lot slower stock than the TII cause they are but you add an intercooler to a TI and and raise the boost to 12-14psi and it will be just as quik if not quiker do to having more torque and a faster spooling turbo.

Go here
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/index.html and read through the turbo database section. Tons of good info including cheap and easy ways to make a lot of power. Also click on the banner at the top of the page and check out some of the things he sales.


Thanks for the link. Just to clarify - we ARE starting with a stock Intercooled Turbo II (1989). The car I sold to my friend is a 1989 LeBaron GTC with the factory intercooled TII and the A555 5-speed (the '86 lancer turbo I belonged to my dad). He was pretty happy when I informed him that his is one of only 1400 or so 89 GTCs with the TII and the A555 5-speed (I bet half of them no longer exist).

 

KokomoGST

Diamond Member
Nov 13, 2001
3,758
0
0
Originally posted by: Marshallj

The cheapest way to go fast is probably with a 5.0 Mustang or turbo DSM.

Check the archives... lots of discussion about this and those were the two answers. An AWD 1st Gen DSM or even a Galant VR4 (though rarer) can get into high 12s VERY easily... about $5k total for a decent car + simple mods. Driven well and without lifting... you're in 12s. 1G DSMs are going to be more reliable than their 2G counterparts (no crankwalk worries and better metal in the components).

Same deal with a 5.0, notfred and other Stang guys on the board can attest to that. An SVO can do it too, but those are rare as well and hard to find in good shape.

DSMs and 5.0s can be set up to handle pretty well. DSMs will handle better out of the 2 out of the box since they have independent rears and AWD. Both can be set up to trophy in autoX and scream on a big racetrack on top of being fast on the strip.

Reliability issues will arise in both as you make more power if you don't take care to maintain the car well. In the 13s, high 12s DSMs are pretty strong even on all stock components. It's when you get silly power and get into low 12s, high 11s on high mileage stuff that a lot of people get into trouble. I'm sure the situation is similar with other cars.
 

MiLLeRTiMe

Junior Member
Jan 28, 2003
15
0
0
although its a new car, this thing is the fastest thing on 4 wheels for under 20k... yea i believe its out of your price range but i thought i would share the info. this thing is faster than the new nissan 350z and a v8 mustang.... go dodge... to bad its a neon
 

chin311

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2003
4,307
3
81
Originally posted by: MiLLeRTiMe
although its a new car, this thing is the fastest thing on 4 wheels for under 20k... yea i believe its out of your price range but i thought i would share the info. this thing is faster than the new nissan 350z and a v8 mustang.... go dodge... to bad its a neon

yea, its a neon, but a fasssssssst one. i'd drive it, i'd love to look at all the ppl driving v8 stang gt's getting took by a neon. haha, itd be great, i dunno if i'd spend 20k on that neon, or if i'd scrunge a few extra k for a wrx, probably the wrx, i've always loved those.
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
My brother in law did 13.7 in an El Camino he bought+built for a total of $1500. It'd probably be about 13.1 with the way he has it now (about $2000 into it). Hard to beat that kind of bang for the buck.
 

Spac3d

Banned
Jul 3, 2001
6,651
1
0
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
My brother in law did 13.7 in an El Camino he bought+built for a total of $1500. It'd probably be about 13.1 with the way he has it now (about $2000 into it). Hard to beat that kind of bang for the buck.
El Camino's are super cheap way to go. My friend picked his up for $4000 ... it ran high 11's his first time on the track. Those 350's just love to be built up. That car is a sleeper when it is parked, but when he backs it into the garage, the whole house shakes :eek:
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,106
433
136
Originally posted by: chin311
Originally posted by: MiLLeRTiMe
although its a new car, this thing is the fastest thing on 4 wheels for under 20k... yea i believe its out of your price range but i thought i would share the info. this thing is faster than the new nissan 350z and a v8 mustang.... go dodge... to bad its a neon

yea, its a neon, but a fasssssssst one. i'd drive it, i'd love to look at all the ppl driving v8 stang gt's getting took by a neon. haha, itd be great, i dunno if i'd spend 20k on that neon, or if i'd scrunge a few extra k for a wrx, probably the wrx, i've always loved those.

Stock Mustang GT's really aren't all that quick, a Z28 or SS Camaro would tear you a new one.

Oh, and a mid 90's Z28 is around $10K.

;)

Viper GTS
 

KokomoGST

Diamond Member
Nov 13, 2001
3,758
0
0
Geez, all you guys are listing cars more than $8k for the car itself? With $8k you can have a well-handling 1G DSM that's into the 12s already or a 5.0GT that's modded to be into the 12s as well, with suspension mods to boot!

Then suggesting a 20k new car? And then 15-22k used cars? (Supras, 300ZX TT, 3000GT VR4 territory) Dang...
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,378
8,121
126
There's a dealer here in town that has one of the '97(?) "Anniversary" Camaro SS's with the Vette engine of that year going for 9500. That's some cheap speed too :)
 

geno

Lifer
Dec 26, 1999
25,074
4
0
Did you ever upgrade the turbo in your CSX? If so, did you buy the one from Mopar Performance?
Nope, original turbo :) The turbo in the 89 CSX is the rare VNT and I intend to keep the VNT technology in the car (I might have a hybrid VNT built, but it'll retain the VNT aspect of the turbo). Here's a link explaining what the VNT is and why it's such a rare and above all, cool turbo :cool: '

VNT Info
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
What are you so angry about? You'd think I just insulted you or something...
anyway, you should know (and you would if you had checked my profile) that I don't live anywhere close to where gas is 1.25 a gallon. Rather, it is 1.90 a gallon here and was more than 2.30 not so long ago. I converted that so you wouldn't have to, since I actually live in Canada where our wages suck so that 1.90 is even more than it would seem :)

Now, when I say cheap I mean under 10k. There are no cars that can reach 12-13 second quarter miles for under 10K? I know the talon is one.. though it would probably break pretty often ;) Wasn't your Ford a Grand Marquis? That has got to be the total opposite of the kind of car I want. No offense, but that is a big, slow, gas guzzling boat. Fine if you don't care about gas and want something big and comfortable, but I do care about gas and I don't sit in my car for hours so I don't need a big boat.

You ask why I would want road-handling? I ask, why not? Do you think straight-line is all that matters? That may be good and fine for you but straight road is not all that matters for me, and at 3am at night, the country roads is where its at. These roads are definately not glass smooth so when you are driving down them at 70 to 80 miles per hour you want something that doesn't bounce all over the place. My friend told me of the problems he had with his Camaro's rear-end swinging out over every bump.

Now, I know I will have to make a trade-off somewhere, and I said so in my original post, and I wanted people to tell me what they THINK is the best car to work with. I'm smart enough to know you can't have your cake and eat it too, you don't have to tell me that. Now that all that's settled, can you post something useful in the thread? I don't care if your gas is 1.25. Tell me something that I can actually find useful :)


Originally posted by: Ornery
12-13 second quarter mile...

Cheap? Yeah, right.
rolleye.gif



decent gas mileage during regular driving

For a buck and a quarter a gallon, who gives a fuc...


hmm.. no ford? ;)

My last Ford lasted me 20 years and was purchased 5 years used! Keep smiling at that.


not the best for road-handling...

Road handling for what? For fvcking what? WTF are you driving this thing that this matters one tit?


DEFINATELY not insurance

Buy the GD Caravan then... Christ!
rolleye.gif

 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
jesus fn christ, I put a wink there for a reason! Get over it! I never said all their cars were bad! Unfortunately not all of them are good, but let's not start a flamewar over it.

Originally posted by: SinfulWeeper
and good reliability (hmm.. no ford? ;))

I really want the drugs your on to come out with a statement like that
rolleye.gif


From my father owning two taxi business' in his lifetime. I can make this statement with very good accuracy.
Ford's rarely break down. But when the do, parts are very expensive. But it did not matter much as their milages went to 300000 :Q.
Chevy's break down quite a bit. But their parts are dirt cheap.
Mazda's went zoom zoom to the auto salvage yard. I never seen so much crap in my life. (I must admit their 626 was fun to drive though, I owned on while living in Anchorage :)).

He never owned any other brands with the exception of a Dodge (forgot the model). When it broke down, getting parts for it in our small community became a problem and they were more expensives than Ford's. So he never bought one again and sold it...

 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Does Dodge have any decent RWD cars that have that turbo engine. I'd much prefer RWD over FWD. I did have a Shadow NA not too long ago and the head-gasket blew up on it, not too long after a hole was blown through one of the pistons. I didn't beat on that engine or anything (at least not after my timing belt went, which was before the other stuff) so I really don't understand that one. Imagine on a turbocharged... well at least the head-gasket and piston were cheap to fix (if a pain in the ass). Well anyways, that might be one option. I could find a shadow for really cheap, my last one was only $600 (CDN) and I guess was a decent deal for that cash even with the engine headaches.

What about the Mustang 5.0? About how much power can that engine take on stock internals? Does it take to turbos or superchargers well? Those cars aren't so bad, and they look half-decent in black too. I like the look of a Camaro more, but I'd rather not get the same car that a friend of mine already has and that another one may be getting.

As for the talon.. I'm always swinging one way or the other on that. I hear about these really fast talons that only got a couple grand put into it and then I read someone else's story about how their transmission broke and thei AWD transfer case locked up or some other horror story.

Hmm, I'd think I'd go with the Mustang. I'd really like to try an RWD car as I've driven FWD up till now. Think powerslides :)
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
I put a link right in the top of my post. 12 - 13 second quarter right out of the box for about $10,000 and worth every penny. Only down side is the insurance. When you're done screwing around with it you can probably sell it for what you paid for it.
 

An old corvette.
An entire generation is getting old and dead, and selling off their perfect garaged, low milage babies in these economic times.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,511
1
81
Originally posted by: Jehovah
Blowjobs. Lots and lots of blowjobs.


Wait, you said cheapest . . ..

that would still cost him some money, he'd have to buy knee pads for as much blowing as he'd be doing.

 

illusion88

Lifer
Oct 2, 2001
13,164
3
81
Cheapest way to a fast car?

Stickers, and lots of them.
A sticker on the outside of your car decreases wind resistance. I am told that with enough stickers (or a few if applied correctly) can deminish the wind resistance completly. Woah....
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
0
0
Originally posted by: Ornery
I put a link right in the top of my post. 12 - 13 second quarter right out of the box for about $10,000 and worth every penny. Only down side is the insurance. When you're done screwing around with it you can probably sell it for what you paid for it.

Sorry, I missed that. Well, that is definately a sweet car. 380hp.. 370 torque.. nice :) Those cars handle good too don't they? I think I would get raped by the insurance company though, as I'm only 20. :( 10K on the spot is also a big loan for me, I'd have to stretch that one out.