Cheap track day car suggestions *Update - Bought a MX5*

[Atty]

I would also say that the added complexity is also a problem, when something breaks. In general more expensive.
Plus, the extra torque of forced induction is nice, if you're in the "because racecar" mindset, but it will also put more stress on clutch and drive train.
Also, turbo cars are slightly more difficult to "balance".

A turbo is nice, if you have a small engine and a heavy car, for every day driving, or if you have 4WD, but on a track car, I'd always go for a lightweight 4 cyl. first, and a lightweight 6 cyl next.

Not to mention, that fifteen years ago, turbos were still pretty sucky in most road cars.

Atty, if you propose a 30k Atom, I propose a 30k Exige - at least you can get home in the dry, when you get rained out on track 😉

You can get an Exige in the US for $30k?! Half the fun of the Ariel Atom is not knowing if you'll get home alive or not.

http://www.uscaterham.com

In the case of unrealistic options, I would also look into a Caterham.

2003 Super 7 Race car. Original E Production Spec Racer upgraded to 2.0 Liter, 200 hp Zetec with 6 speed. The car has been professionally maintained and upgraded throughout it's life. 21 gallon fuel cell for endurance racing, upgraded brake package, etc. Very competitive, dependable and consistent podium finisher. First place in under 2.0 liter class and third overall at the 25 Hour of Thunderhill in 2009. Currently runs SPU but have original E production engine and trans if interested. Price includes 4 sets of wheels, rain tires, slicks, and other spares. I have loved driving this car to great success but it's time to change. Contact Mark McClure at 425-765-9693 or mmcclure@rmgassetmanagement.com. Located in Sammamish, Washington. $31,000 OBO.

 

[_Rick_]

You can get an Exige in the US for $30k?!

I only checked European prices, where they were offered below 30k euro.
It's winter, and there's less taxes in the US, so I would guess that somewhere in North America, you'd be able to find one at that price, or thereabouts.

The dollar isn't that weak, and the Exige shouldn't have such strong residuals in the US....or am I mistaken...
edit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lotu...160954165912?pt=US_Cars_Trucks#ht_1380wt_1005

Well ain't that a nice ride 😀 Single-seater conversion, and 3k more, and he gives you a turbo kit....

And, yummy. That Caterham sounds like a lot of fun. Around 400 horses per ton, I'd guess...but definitely a trailer queen 😀

 

[yottabit]

You can get a pretty low mileage C5 Vette for as low as <$10k and a C5 Z06 for as low as $15-18k

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Mustang GT or Cobra - Go with the 5.0L V8 and SN95 body style - '94 or '95

Super cheap to mod, powerful, hard-top, bullet-proof, and CHEAP! The suspension can be sorted out with many kits on the market.

Steeda 5-link kit is only $1300 - add lower control arms, struts and springs and some sway bars and your set.

Miata would be my #1 pick and Mustang my 2nd.

 

[Jimzz]

You can get a pretty low mileage C5 Vette for as low as <$10k and a C5 Z06 for as low as $15-18k

Where? Got links?

Cheapest C5 near me is 12k with over 115k.
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/3528177593.html

 

[JCH13]

OP: a thought just occured. If you're upgrading the suspension anyway, don't bother with an "IS" BMW anything. You're just going to replace most or all of the parts that make it a 'sport' version in the first place.


Also, OP's budget is 7k-8k guys... I assume that includes prep work, mods, and tires.

Off the top of my head for a Miata:

Good wheels/tires: $800-$1,200
Good race seats/harnesses: $1,000-$1,200 (can go cheaper or keep OE, I still rock OE in mine)
Roll bar: $500
Starter-level shocks and springs: $600-800
Good Intake/Exhaust: $1,200
'tune' of free CAS advance+91 octane: free
Alignment: $80
Radiator: $200-400
New seals/water pump/timing belt: $250 if you do the work yourself
Brake pads and rotors: $500

Helmet: $300-600
Gloves: $50-100
Shoes: $50-100
Fire Suit (optional): $400

Looking at $3k-$6k in prep work and safety gear, not including maintenance that the car will need, track/autox fees, etc.

A typical Lemons car has around $4-5k into a $500 car to get it endurance race ready, with basically no engine/suspension mods, just brakes, wheels, tires, and safety gear (including a cage).

Edit: to do the arithmetic that means he's looking for a car that's in the $2k-$4k range. Perfect for a track rat IMO.

 

[yottabit]

Where? Got links?

Cheapest C5 near me is 12k with over 115k.
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/3528177593.html

"near you" is the problem there

I just usually run autotrader with a few hundred miles set as the max distance, or even cross country if you want

Personally I think the best thing to do for this kind of activity is look farther out! There are car transport services out there that can haul a car pretty far for $500-$1k

Since you're in MD I've seen lots of good deals in VA for around $10k IIRC

EDIT: HRm seems like maybe you're right and I was overly optimistic. Only one for ~$10k has about 160k miles: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...=300&listingId=332575183&listingIndex=1&Log=0

However there are some nice ones for the $12-14k range with low miles and I'm willing to bet you could haggle them down quite a bit from asking price

 

[Jimzz]

"near you" is the problem there

I just usually run autotrader with a few hundred miles set as the max distance, or even cross country if you want

Personally I think the best thing to do for this kind of activity is look farther out! There are car transport services out there that can haul a car pretty far for $500-$1k

Since you're in MD I've seen lots of good deals in VA for around $10k IIRC

EDIT: HRm seems like maybe you're right and I was overly optimistic. Only one for ~$10k has about 160k miles: http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...=300&listingId=332575183&listingIndex=1&Log=0

However there are some nice ones for the $12-14k range with low miles and I'm willing to bet you could haggle them down quite a bit from asking price

My first specialty when I was a mechanic was Port Fuel injection, that was so I could work on Corvettes since all the old timers hated anything that was not carb. So I keep up on Corvettes to this day. Had a C5 and now have a C3 (1973).
The only C5’s I see that are cheap have been wrecked or have more problems than they are worth. It’s better to buy a nicer car than a cheap one and fix it when you are talking about anything late C4 and up (F/I and electronic issues mostly my reasons). That’s why less than 10k C5 seems way unlikely, at least a good running one. 😉

 

[manimal]

Dont discount a e30 or an e36 when it comes to cost. Cross shop parts at rockauto between a miata and a e30 and the miata wins but not by a whole lot. I have gotten over 400 at the wheel on an e30 and an e36 and subframe issues were non existent. Just last week I saw an e46 with the places that the subframe connect to were partially sheared off and warped. Car had been boosted for 3+ years and drag raced. I wouldnt worry about that unless the car showed clear signs of abuse in other areas. Easy enough to check.

8k buys you something like this already done.

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/3562470943.html

 

[Billb2]

Lemons is, by far, the cheapest track time you can buy.
It's great. We've done about a dozen races. Won 3.
'89 Honde CRX Si, bone stock (98hp?) motor.

Your problem will be rounding up 3 or 4 other guys to go in with you.

You can always buy a seat though.

 

[_Rick_]

How about a 190E?
They're getting pretty old, but there is a pretty large community around them.
Might be worth evaluating.

 

[Throckmorton]

A decent Miata is easier to find than a decent 328is... The 328is is pretty rare. I've seen maybe 3 for sale in the last few months in the whole state of Texas and I bought the worst one for $3100.

325is is easier

 

[JCH13]

I read up a little on the 325is vs the 325i. Since OP is planning on replacing/upgrading suspension components anyway, there is no reason I can see to get a 325is. The extra electronics/leather/sunroof/etc will only make it more expensive and heavier for the intended purpose. One might possibly be interested in the LSD, but rear end traction can be solved, or at least mitigated, with suspension setup and good tires.

Also, the fact that is' a 2-door probably makes the 325is less safe in a crash than a 325i because the b-pillar is further away from the driver.

 

[satyajitmenon]

Looks like I'm gonna head down the usual route and buy an MX5. Finding a good example of an e36 in that budget is proving harder than I thought.

There's a nice '01 with 112k miles for sale locally. Gonna check it out this week.

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/3606430715.html

Aside from the usual stuff to check, rocker panels, etc.. anything specific to the NB that I should look out for?

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Looks like I'm gonna head down the usual route and buy an MX5. Finding a good example of an e36 in that budget is proving harder than I thought.

There's a nice '01 with 112k miles for sale locally. Gonna check it out this week.

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/3606430715.html

Aside from the usual stuff to check, rocker panels, etc.. anything specific to the NB that I should look out for?

Skip that and find one with a 6spd and factory LSD. First year they made them was '99.

 

[thedarkwolf]

The 5 speed is lighter and also has the factory LSD plus the 6 speed sucks at autox if that is one of the things you want to do. The 6 speed's gearing means you will be shifting between 2nd and 3rd on a lot of autox lots.

 

[JCH13]

Skip that and find one with a 6spd and factory LSD. First year they made them was '99.

The LSD and 6spd were most frequently found on the 10th anniversary addition, which carry a serious premium ($1-2k) unless you get VERY lucky.

6SPD is only really needed for high-hp cars. The normal 5spd only handles about 250hp. On the auto-x course 6spds are geared funny and most people HAVE to shift to try to be competitive. I know owners who had a 6psd and swapped to a 5spd for just that reason. I've also heard of the reverse lockout failing and people accidentally shifting into R and exploding them.

LSD would be nice... maybe ... but is not requisite. There are many LSD options that can be swapped into basically any Miata diff depending on your budget. I've got an RX7 clutch-type diff w/ 1.8 rear-end gearing and axles. There are VLSDs that are cheep and light. Torsen diffs that are $$. Etc.

I think that'd be a fantastic entry-level track/weekend car. Since there were many refinements made there's not a whole lot to check for on an NB besides tight steering, suspension, etc. Stuff you'd normally check on any car.

First mod ideas for your $8k total budget: Stage 2 Track Pack from Flyin' Miata, Porterfield front and rear brake pads, and then some 15in wheels and sticky tires!

 

[BurnItDwn]

Not hardtop, but...

http://exomotive.com/exocet/

Exocet Base Kit - $5,999
+ Use a junk Miata

I'll be the 3rd one to quote you here, wow, that thing looks awesome. Looks like an Ariel Atom, only much much less expensive.....

I have no garage, and no experience working on cars at all, and I want one!

 

[andylawcc]

If you absolutely have your heart set on a BMW, 318i E30 FTW. Their lower desirability makes them considerably cheaper, but in the hands of a good driver they're stupidly fast. The light weight, good balance, and forgiving chas

is there a huge amount of difference between the E30 and E36 chassis? As someone here already mentioned, E30 is stupidly expensive (or the E36 is relatively cheaper).

It is VERY liberating to drive a car that's not expensive to fix. I can't imagine the cost of fixing up an M3 or S2K if you put it into a wall or blew up the engine. However, I know I can pick up a used 5SFE or B6 engine (MR2 and Miata respectively) for $300-500 at a junkyard and get back out on the track after a day for an engine swap or pick up a whole new shell for about the same price.

the 5SFE is also used on the Camry and Celica GT. :thumbsup;

 

[JCH13]

is there a huge amount of difference between the E30 and E36 chassis? As someone here already mentioned, E30 is stupidly expensive (or the E36 is relatively cheaper).




the 5SFE is also used on the Camry and Celica GT. :thumbsup;

I'm not sure on the differences between an E30 and E36, but a quick look at the wiki page is most illuminating. Most E36 BMWs are of the age where airbags are required (at least here in NH it's 1993 and newer) as is ODBI or ODBII. These are a real bummer if you're hoping to drive your car to the track. BMW also introduce VANOS, which makes the engine more complicated. The E36 also got a few hundred pounds heavier than the E30. Having said that, I'm not BMW expert, just making some educated guess about why the E30 is more desirable as a track car.

 

[brainhulk]

Lemons is, by far, the cheapest track time you can buy.
It's great. We've done about a dozen races. Won 3.
'89 Honde CRX Si, bone stock (98hp?) motor.

Your problem will be rounding up 3 or 4 other guys to go in with you.

You can always buy a seat though.

I was talking to a lemons driver at a hpde event this last Sunday. He said do lemons if you got a lot of money to burn. He shares the car with 3 other people and he has spent $27k in the last 5 years. He also said the races are 24 hours long. Lol, my body is beat from all the g forces of a 20 min session, I don't know how you guys do that. He also said his motor blew after 16 hours at the last race

Maybe if I can train my body to withstand that someday, I will ask my rich friends to put together a team. I am intrigued by the chance to go wheel to wheel without having to get a racing license.

 

[JCH13]

So he's spending around $5.4k/year racing? Depending on how many races he's done that's not too bad of a price. As simply a driver I spend about $1k for a local race and up to almost $2k for a 'travel' race. I usually get two ~2 hour stints at each race. If I average out saftey equipment costs they're almost negligible after the five races I've done. My team has three cars at this point, which really helps spread out the overhead costs of attending an event (trailer, travel, etc).

A simple prep for a reliable race car is about $5-6k including the car. Though that doesn't stop some people from spending WAY more money, in the range of $10-15k when people get really crazy with a "$500" car.

For what you get out of it, multiple hours of heavy traffic wheel-to-wheel racing on some incredible tracks, it really is a pretty budget-friendly approach in the relative terms of racing.

 

[satyajitmenon]

Looks like I'm gonna head down the usual route and buy an MX5. Finding a good example of an e36 in that budget is proving harder than I thought.

There's a nice '01 with 112k miles for sale locally. Gonna check it out this week.

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/3606430715.html

Aside from the usual stuff to check, rocker panels, etc.. anything specific to the NB that I should look out for?

Checked out the car today. Initial observations:

1. Drives well - but probably needs a suspension refresh. Doesn't matter since I plan to swap it out anyway

2. Squeal when taking off in first gear, that appears to be coming from the diff?

3. Weather stripping might need to be replaced. Let's in a lot of wind noise. Also looks like the drivers window doesn't go up completely on its own. Last few mm needs a bit of persuasion.

4. Both windows squeak rolling up and down.

5. Slipping and sliding all over the place cos the rear tires are shot :awe:

6. Top is in really good shape. Almost looks new.

7. Was originally from up North. Trunk appears to have some corrosion (or maybe just dirt) just under the doughnut. Need to take a closer look when I do a PPI

8. Bite point on the clutch is really high. Wonder if it's a sign of a clutch that needs replacing, or just poor adjustment.

9. Check engine light is on. Owner claims the cats are gone (need to check the exact code). While emissions check isn't an issue down here, I don't want to drive around with blown cats. Opportunity to go for a full exhaust system - but didn't want to have to do engine work right away. :hmm:

10. Parking break needs to be adjusted. Car can still roll when it's fully engaged.

11. New alternator, belts, brake fluid reservoir, brake pads all around.

12. Guy appears to have welded a chrome roll bar.


Overall, not a bad car. Will get my mechanic buddy to do a proper inspection this weekend.

Oh. And forgot to test if the top was leak proof.

 

[phucheneh]

Wow. Car looks nicer than that in pics. Kinda sounds...trashed.

1) Just make sure you realize all the stuff that needs replacing. Are you planning on doing tie rods? Steering rack? All the bushings? Unless you're gonna literally do all the steering and suspension, at least get the front end in the air to check it out.

2) Weird description. Define 'squeal'? Like a 'rubber against hard surface' (tire squeal, belt squeal) kind of noise? Kind of odd; probably driveline related, but noise/vibration from diff or driveshaft would build gradually or occur more often (load-dependent). This does sound based on engine load, though...you sure it's not from the engine bay?

3/4) Careful of this. It sounds like the window is binding. Look down in the door (get a flashlight and pull the window felts back a little with the window down, so you can look through the crack) and make sure it doesn't look like it's ever been hit. If it's from weatherstripping, you should be able to spray the rubber with a little silicone lube and have the window work smoothly.

7) Get a really good look underneath the car, especially at the back end. It's hard to find a northern car with a back end that's not full of scaly rust. Best case, everything is structurally sound but the back end will be a PITA to work on.

8) If the clutch disengages very early in the pedal travel/engages late, that's generally the opposite of what you would see with a worn cable or air in the line (dunno if that's hydraulic or not). Not really a good indicator of clutch condition.

9) Physically gone or just 'bad'? Careful of a partially plugged exhaust, which would generally indicate the car was being driven with a misfire. If the exhaust seems unrestricted (use your best judgement based on how the car performs. can kind of guess based on how the exhaust feels at the tailpipe, but that's something I can't really describe other than 'smooth/consistent flow and decent pressure'), look for P0420, which simply indicates that the catalyst material is 'used up'...not much left to react with the HC/CO/NOx.

10) What kinda parking brake does this car have? If it's not in the caliper (drum inside rear rotor, instead), those shoes might be toast. Just the shoes can be kinda pricey; and I've seen more than one car where someone had a problem and simply ripped all the hardware out along with them. If it's in the caliper, there may be an issue with the installation of the pads. ...but it could also just be a cable that needs adjusting. There's often not a ton of adjustment, though, so if it does nothing with the handle all the way up (not even building resistance), I'd worry that something's up.

12) Welded to the floor? 'Cause that's sketchy. Or welded it together himself? 'Cause that's also sketchy. 😀

Don't buy a crap car just because you want something and feel you can rationalize not finding the best specimen based on your intent to modify it. Start with the best platform you can.

 

[thedarkwolf]

My guess on the squeal is throwout bearing. My 95 was doing the samething before I broke something in the engine and decided to swap in a whole other drivetrain. The roll bar looks like your typical style bar or a mouse trap as everybody on the miata forums likes to refer to them. It needs to go.

That car sounds like a pass. The price is ok but not great and for all that work I'd want a great price. Miatas can't be that hard to find down there.