Cheap Horsepower

[TridenT]

Yeah, but it's a Civic. 😛 If you're going to build a car for decent power, at least start with a sports car.

I'd rather have a 300hp MR2 than a 400hp Civic...but I'm biased. 😛

MR2s are far more expensive... and far less common...

 

[jlee]

True. However, how much does it cost to get 400hp out of a Civic?

An MR2 with a Gen3 3sgte ($3k with transmission) can make 300hp with a $50 boost controller. A shell to drop that motor in will run $1500-$3000.

Can you buy and build a 400hp-safe Civic for that? Maybe you can...I don't know, never priced it out. Regardless, IMHO an MR2 is a far superior platform and I think most will agree that it would be worth a slight price premium.

That said, there are plenty of other ways to make big power - most of the time, 4cyl isn't the way to go.

Edit: I like this, but a bit more power would be nice - http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/1709112286.html

 

[Arkaign]

A 400hp Civic is borderline useless unless you're doing 60+ rolls, or you have rolled fenders and wedge some 19"x7.5" slicks onto the front.

 

[jlee]

A 400hp Civic is borderline useless unless you're doing 60+ rolls, or you have rolled fenders and wedge some 19"x7.5" slicks onto the front.

Well, that too. 😛

 

[zerocool84]

This thread was about cheap horsepower and you can't get any cheaper than Civics or old Bugs. I never said it'd be driveable though.

 

[jlee]

This thread was about cheap horsepower and you can't get any cheaper than Civics or old Bugs. I never said it'd be driveable though.

You can make a 400hp Civic for cheap? Buy the car, sure...but get a different engine, build it, and get a proper turbo setup?

 

[AMCRambler]

You could always grab an old Rambler. Mid 70's Javelin or AMX can be had for pretty cheap mainly because they were ugly. Pick up a rebuild-able 390 and you've got yourself a muscle car. Transmissions are fairly easily found/rebuilt too since they were using Torque Flites by then.

 

[BUTCH1]

Well, in 1967, Shelby had the 302 in bone stock configuration as an option for his GT 350 Mustang. The engine had a four barrel carburetor and is noted to produce around 335 hp. Now I believe that is gross hp, so net hp is around 300-315.

One of the things that kind of disgusts me about Shelby is that he lost his innovative flair right after the '65 GT350. The '67 and following Gt350s were bigger and tbh, kind of crap compared to the original, and his GT500 wasn't really the best effort he could have made. The thing was heavy as hell and had the cobra jet engine--good for drag stangs but considering the sort of cars Shelby was known for prior to this, not the sort of thing you'd expect from him.

To be fair, he did experiment with a "Hornet Mustang" in 1968 that had fuel injection and Independent Rear Suspension, but why he never added that on is a mystery.

More agonizingly, the 302 was a beautiful engine that he could have modded like he did the 289. Balanced the camshaft, install a higher flow carb, aluminum intake manifold, he could have bettered his cars a great deal. But he chose not to, which is irritating.




Well I think SN95 started in '93 or '94, but I think the interest in the 5.0 surged in the late '90's, mid 2000's.

I had a "bone stock" 302 in my 1968 Cougar and it was only 170HP, wasn't the one CS using a modified one?.

 

[RockinZ28]

LS1 F-bods are routinely 5K or less, but those will usually be 130K miles or more. If you can save up to around 8K-10K, you can find plenty with less than 80K miles and a nice amount of mods.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

here you go:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...doors=&max_price=&cardist=1686&standard=false

 

[Gillbot]

 

[TehMac]

I had a "bone stock" 302 in my 1968 Cougar and it was only 170HP, wasn't the one CS using a modified one?.

Sort of, he was using factory parts, like steel connector rods and a new crank and so forth. But it wasn't really a Carroll Shelby effort like the GT350's 289 Hi-Po was. He just got all his parts from Ford and the engine wasn't all that popular, in fact it was never offered in a Mustang again until the '80's.



But I'm surprised 1968 Cougars had only 170 hp...are you shure that's right?

 

[ElFenix]

well...it's a convertible, not sure how hawt of a situation that is for you. Plus, the 5.0s are great V8s, but keep in mind even Steve Saleen was only able to get around 292 hp out them by manipulating air flow and so forth.

They need new heads.

5 or 6 months of the year i really wish i had a convertible. i know, it's not as race friendly as the regular roof, but that wouldn't be the point of this car for me, at least. this would be for cruising slow down the seawall in galveston.

 

[v8envy]

Sort of, he was using factory parts, like steel connector rods and a new crank and so forth. But it wasn't really a Carroll Shelby effort like the GT350's 289 Hi-Po was. He just got all his parts from Ford and the engine wasn't all that popular, in fact it was never offered in a Mustang again until the '80's.

To call a Shelby-tuned 289 "stock" is the same thing as calling a Rousch or Saleen tuned engine stock because it's not using custom, exotic and made to order parts. The GT-350 engine was rated at 306 hp gross, which is a lot closer to 240 net hp than 300. Definitely within the realm of reason. You may be thinking of the GT-40 version (which was an all-out racing build) which made 390 hp. The stock 289 of the day was rated at 195 hp for the 2 barrel and 225 with the 4 barrel. Once again, gross on several levels.

There was also a Boss version of that engine using parts from the 351 Cleveland and a nearly 800 cfm holley carburetor. Not a very streetable car, but revved very high and made great power.

Anyhoo, not sure what you mean by the engine not being offered again. The 289 became the 302, just like the 289 descended from the 260 which in turn descended from the 221. They were all the 90 degree family, and a factory option on all mustangs until 1995. Even on the mustang II (technically NOT a mustang) 1975-1978.

But I'm surprised 1968 Cougars had only 170 hp...are you shure that's right?

Sounds about right for a 2 barrel 302. A few HP less than the stang of the day. Realize that a 1970 351 Cleveland, which was a higher compression across the board higher performance motor "only" made 240 hp.

One very overlooked and reasonable bang for the buck supercar is the Porsche 928 S4. Not very popular, and I think even today you can pick up a mid to late 80s one for low 10s. Late 80s vettes can be a great performance bargain.

 

[hanoverphist]

This thread was about cheap horsepower and you can't get any cheaper than Civics or old Bugs. I never said it'd be driveable though.

my old neighbor had a "drag bug" as he called it. custom framing, engine and everything. it was painted primer color with a rag top, but damn that thing was fast. had some special 2 speed transmission in it, it was weird. and loud. and fast. if i was making a vehicle for speed i think id start with an older model pick up and build something unique.

 

[SearchMaster]

One very overlooked and reasonable bang for the buck supercar is the Porsche 928 S4. Not very popular, and I think even today you can pick up a mid to late 80s one for low 10s.

After watching an episode of Wheeler Dealers where they restored a 928 S4, it reminded me why this is one of my favorite cars of all time. I've seen them as low as $6-$8K though I don't know what condition those would be in. The biggest problem is they all seem to be automatics, which I wouldn't be interested in for a car like that.

 

[Rifter]

I think the 5.0's are pretty cheap for the power.

Civics are also pretty cheap to mod but as mentioned 400HP turbo civic would be pretty hard/impossible to launch well. Thats why im building my 88 CRX up to around 200HP N/A(will go 12.5 compression) and then im going to run a 200 shot of nos, obviously im going to need forged internals for that. Should work well, hook with the 200hp wont be to hard and then when i hit 2nd and have good grip shoot the nos, i'll let you know how it works out next summer 🙂

 

[Vette73]

Yea, another Vote for anything LS1 powered.

F-Bodies can be had real cheap and a super aftermarket for support is already there and still growing.

 

[TehMac]

To call a Shelby-tuned 289 "stock" is the same thing as calling a Rousch or Saleen tuned engine stock because it's not using custom, exotic and made to order parts. The GT-350 engine was rated at 306 hp gross, which is a lot closer to 240 net hp than 300. Definitely within the realm of reason. You may be thinking of the GT-40 version (which was an all-out racing build) which made 390 hp. The stock 289 of the day was rated at 195 hp for the 2 barrel and 225 with the 4 barrel. Once again, gross on several levels.

There was also a Boss version of that engine using parts from the 351 Cleveland and a nearly 800 cfm holley carburetor. Not a very streetable car, but revved very high and made great power.

Anyhoo, not sure what you mean by the engine not being offered again. The 289 became the 302, just like the 289 descended from the 260 which in turn descended from the 221. They were all the 90 degree family, and a factory option on all mustangs until 1995. Even on the mustang II (technically NOT a mustang) 1975-1978.

Sounds about right for a 2 barrel 302. A few HP less than the stang of the day. Realize that a 1970 351 Cleveland, which was a higher compression across the board higher performance motor "only" made 240 hp.

One very overlooked and reasonable bang for the buck supercar is the Porsche 928 S4. Not very popular, and I think even today you can pick up a mid to late 80s one for low 10s. Late 80s vettes can be a great performance bargain.

Well I stand corrected. That said, I believe that people have said in the other thread I had that Ford has released a lot of aftermarket parts that allow N/A 302s to get 350+ hp

 

[nakedfrog]

This thread was about cheap horsepower and you can't get any cheaper than Civics or old Bugs. I never said it'd be driveable though.

There's a saying that's popular in the air-cooled VW world, and most likely beyond...
"Fast, cheap, reliable: pick two"

 

[Zenmervolt]

One very overlooked and reasonable bang for the buck supercar is the Porsche 928 S4. Not very popular, and I think even today you can pick up a mid to late 80s one for low 10s.

And then spend $5,000/year in maintenance.

There is almost nothing that is as expensive as a cheap Porsche.

 

[Squisher]

I don't know if it's the season or the new Camaro coming out, but prices seem to have crept up a fair amount on LS1 F-bodies. I've been thinking about selling my '02 Z28 for 3 years now (just can't bear to part with it, though) and it seems prices are $2-3K more than I remember them being the last time I looked. I'd have thought I'd have to settle for $9K for mine with 37K mi., leather, t-tops, and chrome wheels. Now, asking prices are more like $13K so I figure they'll settle for $11K-$12K.

 

[daw123]

And then spend $5,000/year in maintenance.

There is almost nothing that is as expensive as a cheap Porsche.

A colleague at work has an old 928. He's doing a nuts and bolts refurbishment / rebuild himself.

He bought a second 928 to use for parts. Even though, he is doing all the work himself, I'm sure it will still be costing quite a bit of money.

The last I heard, he had stripped it down to the body shell, replaced the rotten panels and he was re-spraying it in his garage.

 

[jlee]

I think the 5.0's are pretty cheap for the power.

Civics are also pretty cheap to mod but as mentioned 400HP turbo civic would be pretty hard/impossible to launch well. Thats why im building my 88 CRX up to around 200HP N/A(will go 12.5 compression) and then im going to run a 200 shot of nos, obviously im going to need forged internals for that. Should work well, hook with the 200hp wont be to hard and then when i hit 2nd and have good grip shoot the nos, i'll let you know how it works out next summer 🙂

You'll probably need slicks to hook up when you spray unless you have a staged setup..my buddy's modded MS3 will light up first and second like nothing, and it's not 400hp.

 

[scorp00]

Another vote for LS1 fbody. I've seen LS1 fbody's with < 100k go for a little over 5k. I have 93k on mine and it's still burns the tires off.