Cheap computer build

[strep3241]

Somebody I know is looking for a desktop to used for parts inventory for their business. It doesn't need to be anything fancy or blazing fast. They do want Windows 7. We have a local computer store that sells refurbished desktops for $150 to $200 with Windows 7 installed, not sure if they come with disk. These computers are nothing special at all, the $200 machine has a Pentium dual core 2.8ghz cpu and 2gb's of DDR3 ram.

Would they be wasting their money buying a system like this for that kind of money? Could I build them something better for around the same price? I have not asked them what the budget is. Like I said, they do not need anything fancy. Just using it for parts inventory with programs like Excel and no games at all. This will be used in a equipment shop so dust could be an issue.

They do not absolutely need a monitor but could use one. The local store has 19in monitors for $30 and 22in monitors for $50 if they buy the desktop. I am not sure of the brands or specs but I am sure anything will be fine for them.

 

[Charlie98]

The biggest problem I see is the 2GB of RAM... if they are running W7 and a fairly complex Excel sheet it will struggle, I consider 4GB a minimum for W7 and above.

I'd be curious as to the exact CPU... I wouldn't buy anything less than a C2D...

I don't think you could build a reasonable computer for less than $400, mostly because of the cost of the OS. FWIW, both Newegg and MicroCenter have C2D refurbs that would probably beat that...

Example.

 

[Cerb]

If the PCs are are HP Elite/DC, Dell Optiplex, or Lenovo Thinkcentres, refurb/off-lease ones are good buys, and those are fair prices. Plus, if a local PC store does that, you should be able to physically inspect the machine, for which not having that ability is one of the frustrations of buying them online. See what you can do for getting more RAM, without paying out the wazoo for it, and you should be in good shape ($150 for Dual-core/2GB is OK; $200 for near-3GHz C2D/4GB; <$250 for 3GHz C2D/8GB).

FI, I'm putting the finishing touches on a batch of C2D refurb Optiplexes right now. Two have damaged VGA ports (pull down a little and lose a color channel), one of which came with a video card (coincidence? I doubt it--they probably all were installed in a way that stressed the onboard VGA port, and that one was noticed during the normal service life), and one of which was dropped, rendering its one PCI slot unusable, and requiring a little work to make the PCIe slot above it usable.

 

[strep3241]

The ones I seen are Dell machines, the thin cases, I am thinking Optiplex. He said the cpu is a Pentium dual core, just a step below the C2D series. That is what I am most concerned with.

As far as ram goes, I will talk to him about adding more ram and if he doesn't or he wants too much, I can always add more later myself.

I know Excel is not a simple program but I didn't think it would take that much to run that program. To be honest, I am not sure what program they will be using. I have not had a chance to talk to them much about their exact needs. I just found out about this.

Windows is another thing I am concerned with. Since it comes with Windows 7 installed, it should come with a disk as well. I have not asked about this yet but I have a feeling it will not come with a Windows disk. In my experience when buying a new computer, they do not come with the Windows disk. You could call the company and ask for the disk and they will send it to you no questions asked. Although it has been a couple of years since I have been involved with buying a new computer so things could be different now.

This is why many people just buy a new computer when they have a problem with their old one. They don't have a Windows disk and don't want to spend $100 or more to buy Windows.

 

[Charlie98]

This is why many people just buy a new computer when they have a problem with their old one. They don't have a Windows disk and don't want to spend $100 or more to buy Windows.

I don't think so... back in the Dark Ages, before I knew anything about computers, if it broke, you just replaced it. Wasting time taking a $400 computer to have it repaired for half of what it cost to replace it may not make a lot of sense.

It may come with a disk... if it's a Pentium machine you KNOW it probably came with XP/XP Pro, the new W7 license probably came with a disk. Either or, W7 disks are out there... no big deal. Chances are it has a recovery partition anyway (which is why most OEMs don't include disks anymore.) If these guys are actively refurbing older computers with a new OS, I'll bet they have a spare OS disk they could let you have.

I'm still not digging on the Pentium CPU... I just took both my P4 and Pentium D systems out of service... too old, too slow, too much trouble to upgrade.

 

[Cerb]

If it's used, and originally came with W7, it probably doesn't come with a disc. If they are a certified refurbisher, and selling them as refurbed, it will have a disc, and a brand new COA sticker.

However, if you lose the disc, I don't see why you think you'd need to pay $100. You only have to pay if you lose both the hard drive (or the data on it) and the COA sticker.

http://www.w7forums.com/threads/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-image-downloads.12325/

 

[Insert_Nickname]

He said the cpu is a Pentium dual core, just a step below the C2D series. That is what I am most concerned with.

A Pentium DC might be cutting it a little close for modern software, though it depends completely on which model we're talking about.

You'll want to avoid E21xx ones, as they have very low frequencies. The highest end E2200 and E2220 might be passable with enough RAM.

If we're talking E5xxx or E6xxx, they're just fine. You'll want 4GB RAM minimum, using a 2GB system with 7 is not fun. If at all possible you should have 64bit win7 installed, it really does make a tangible difference compared to 32bit. Unless of course you need 16bit support.

 

[strep3241]

I will check what model it is the next time I talk to store.

Out of curiosity, how much would it cost to build them a system? Don't worry about the extras, just focus on the tower. Could I build one for $400 with Windows 7? Would they be better off getting a prebuilt, whether it be new or refurbished? I will have to talk to them about the budget.

 

[Charlie98]

Could I build one for $400 with Windows 7?

Would they be better off getting a prebuilt, whether it be new or refurbished?

1) Yes,
2) Maybe.

The $400 mark is a pretty tight race between a build and a prebuilt. The disadvantage goes to the build right now because we are out of the 'sale' season and it sounds like they need a solution fairly quickly. But let's see...


Intel Pentium G3220 CPU, $70
ASRock B85M-HDS Mobo, $60
G.Skill 2x 2GB 1333 DDR3 RAM, $45
Toshiba 500GB HDD, $50
Corsair CX430w PSU, $45
Lite-On CD/DVD drive, $20
Rosewill FBM-01 mATX case, $20 (AR)
Windows 7 Home, $100

Total: $410 (AR) but some of those items can be found on sale quite often (W7, the PSU, RAM...) and perhaps less expensive at another vendor (I just used Newegg as an example.)

EDIT: I forgot to add a hard drive... corrected.

You could also add $50 and make it a better machine... upgrading to a Fractal Core 1000 case (because it has filters, you mentioned dust) and dropping the HDD in lieu of an 120GB SSD... but that is all just gravy.

 

[Torn Mind]

1) Yes,
2) Maybe.

The $400 mark is a pretty tight race between a build and a prebuilt. The disadvantage goes to the build right now because we are out of the 'sale' season and it sounds like they need a solution fairly quickly. But let's see...


Intel Pentium G3220 CPU, $70
ASRock B85M-HDS Mobo, $60
G.Skill 2x 2GB 1333 DDR3 RAM, $45
Toshiba 500GB HDD, $50
Corsair CX430w PSU, $45
Lite-On CD/DVD drive, $20
Rosewill FBM-01 mATX case, $20 (AR)
Windows 7 Home, $100

Total: $410 (AR) but some of those items can be found on sale quite often (W7, the PSU, RAM...) and perhaps less expensive at another vendor (I just used Newegg as an example.)

EDIT: I forgot to add a hard drive... corrected.

You could also add $50 and make it a better machine... upgrading to a Fractal Core 1000 case (because it has filters, you mentioned dust) and dropping the HDD in lieu of an 120GB SSD... but that is all just gravy.

Those RAM manufacturers don't seem to have a oversupply issue with RAM anymore. $45 for 4 GB now compared to $20 in fall of 2012!

 

[XtremeHardware]

1) Yes,
2) Maybe.

The $400 mark is a pretty tight race between a build and a prebuilt. The disadvantage goes to the build right now because we are out of the 'sale' season and it sounds like they need a solution fairly quickly. But let's see...


Intel Pentium G3220 CPU, $70
ASRock B85M-HDS Mobo, $60
G.Skill 2x 2GB 1333 DDR3 RAM, $45
Toshiba 500GB HDD, $50
Corsair CX430w PSU, $45
Lite-On CD/DVD drive, $20
Rosewill FBM-01 mATX case, $20 (AR)
Windows 7 Home, $100

Total: $410 (AR) but some of those items can be found on sale quite often (W7, the PSU, RAM...) and perhaps less expensive at another vendor (I just used Newegg as an example.)

EDIT: I forgot to add a hard drive... corrected.

You could also add $50 and make it a better machine... upgrading to a Fractal Core 1000 case (because it has filters, you mentioned dust) and dropping the HDD in lieu of an 120GB SSD... but that is all just gravy.

good idea for a cheap a build

 

[Charlie98]

Those RAM manufacturers don't seem to have a oversupply issue with RAM anymore. $45 for 4 GB now compared to $20 in fall of 2012!

Yaaa, I was looking in my NE history and I bought my 2x 4GB set of Sniper RAM for $30. If I would have known...

good idea for a cheap a build

It's very similar to DESK2 in my sig... the goal was to build a general purpose PC for $400 and it came out pretty well. I still think swapping the HDD for a SSD is key and worth every penny.

 

[mfenn]

I will check what model it is the next time I talk to store.

Out of curiosity, how much would it cost to build them a system? Don't worry about the extras, just focus on the tower. Could I build one for $400 with Windows 7? Would they be better off getting a prebuilt, whether it be new or refurbished? I will have to talk to them about the budget.

Keep in mind that if you built him a machine, you are on the hook for support for the rest of your life. If you point him at a Dell, then you're much less in the loop.

I see no reason not to go with a refurb Optiplex. They're build like tanks, much more so than any cheap aftermarket case, come with a legit OS (all you need is the key), and were produced in the millions of identical systems, making finding replacement parts easy.

 

[strep3241]

Keep in mind that if you built him a machine, you are on the hook for support for the rest of your life. If you point him at a Dell, then you're much less in the loop.

I see no reason not to go with a refurb Optiplex. They're build like tanks, much more so than any cheap aftermarket case, come with a legit OS (all you need is the key), and were produced in the millions of identical systems, making finding replacement parts easy.

I realize that I am on the hook for support if I build him one. I probably would be whether I build him one or not. I am the computer guy in the family so everybody I know comes to me when they have a problem.

The part that concerns me about the systems that the local store sells is the processor. It only has a Pentium dual core cpu, a step below the C2D series. That just seems like it would be a little slow especially running Windows 7. When I go back to the store, I will see if I can test the machine. We are supposed to go to the store Monday and ask some more details.

I talked to the guy I am doing this for and he may want to spend more and get a faster system. He is using this for parts inventory for his business so he doesn't want to have to sit and wait on the computer while he tries to look up a part for a customer.

He really didn't give me a max budget but he is willing to spend more. Let's say he has a budget of $400, would you get a better system by building it or buying a prebuilt? How much would he need to spend for me to make it worth while for me to build one for him? I think he is leaning towards a prebuilt just for the fact that it would be much quicker than if I were to build one. What about buying a desktop online? You could probably get a better deal but I would be worried about something happening to it during the shipping process. I would assume they come ready to use right out of the box, right?

If I were to build one, what kind of money would we be looking at to be able to get an i3 or newer processor, 4gb of ram, 2 hard drives, one for backups, and Windows 7? Onboard graphics would be fine.


If he buys a prebuilt, what are the better brands? Is Dell still a good brand? What brands should I stay away from?

Also, he said the program he will be using for inventory is Quicken but he wasn't 100% sure on that.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I realize that I am on the hook for support if I build him one. I probably would be whether I build him one or not. I am the computer guy in the family so everybody I know comes to me when they have a problem.

If you're on the hook for support anyway, don't underestimate how useful it is to be able to fix systems with (cheap) off-the-shelf parts.

 

[Charlie98]

What about buying a desktop online? You could probably get a better deal but I would be worried about something happening to it during the shipping process. I would assume they come ready to use right out of the box, right?

If I were to build one, what kind of money would we be looking at to be able to get an i3 or newer processor, 4gb of ram, 2 hard drives, one for backups, and Windows 7? Onboard graphics would be fine.


If he buys a prebuilt, what are the better brands? Is Dell still a good brand? What brands should I stay away from?

Also, he said the program he will be using for inventory is Quicken but he wasn't 100% sure on that.

Dell, for example, boxes their stuff pretty darned well, and I have had 3 Dells shipped to me from them... never a problem. Dell is probably the first and only OEM builder I would look at for a pre-build, but that is because I have had very good service out of my Dells. I wouldn't buy anything HP. Ever. But that is based on my experience with HP.

In my build above, I used a Pentium G3220... the modern-day Pentium is not the Pentium of old... they are very capable chips and I would have no reservations recommending them for a general purpose computer. Bumping up to an i3 will cost an additional $50-70, and boils down to Hyperthreading, a little more speed, and the better graphics.... none of which would probably benefit the end user. Add a second HDD and you are at $530 with the i3.

 

[strep3241]

Dell, for example, boxes their stuff pretty darned well, and I have had 3 Dells shipped to me from them... never a problem. Dell is probably the first and only OEM builder I would look at for a pre-build, but that is because I have had very good service out of my Dells. I wouldn't buy anything HP. Ever. But that is based on my experience with HP.

In my build above, I used a Pentium G3220... the modern-day Pentium is not the Pentium of old... they are very capable chips and I would have no reservations recommending them for a general purpose computer. Bumping up to an i3 will cost an additional $50-70, and boils down to Hyperthreading, a little more speed, and the better graphics.... none of which would probably benefit the end user. Add a second HDD and you are at $530 with the i3.

I think I have decided not to buy online unless I build him one. If buying a prebuilt, I would rather buy at a local store rather than online just in case something is wrong right from the start.

I have always had good luck out of Dells in the past, didn't know if they were still good or not. I figured they were. I have also heard bad things about HP.

When I see Pentium, I think of old tech and slower speeds. I guess I need to rethink my thinking. I thought you would want a mininum C2D series no matter what is done with it. How does the Pentium series compare to the C2D series, better or worse?

I figured bumping up to an i3 would mean more money. I need to ask him what his budget is but even if he had $1000 to spend which he doesn't, would it be a waste to get an i3 series or higher for what he is going to be doing with it?

 

[escrow4]

I only put i5's or higher with 8GB RAM minimum in most PC's I build or recommend now, especially if they are office box's - if a user has been running a P4 with 1GB/2GB RAM for the past 6 or 7yrs, what would I recommend for the next 6 or 7yrs? They don't upgrade unless something dies. I wouldn't gimp them again with a dual core with 4GB RAM, I'd much prefer overkill so they would have plenty of grunt for anything period.

 

[strep3241]

I only put i5's or higher with 8GB RAM minimum in most PC's I build or recommend now, especially if they are office box's - if a user has been running a P4 with 1GB/2GB RAM for the past 6 or 7yrs, what would I recommend for the next 6 or 7yrs? They don't upgrade unless something dies. I wouldn't gimp them again with a dual core with 4GB RAM, I'd much prefer overkill so they would have plenty of grunt for anything period.

That is fine if they can afford it. What would you have to spend to get that, $700 or more? My guy would not want to spend that much, I don't think. I am sure that he can afford a better system but we all have to draw the line somewhere. I could have him spend $1000 or more easily but would he want to, no. I would love for him to have a system like that but not everybody can afford or justify that much.

I am not sure what kind of systems they have now but if someone is used to running a P4, then I would imagine any dual core would be much faster to them. I realize most people using a P4 or something similar would be running Windows XP. This guy will be using Windows 7 which does require a better system to run.

Like I said, I am going with him to the store Monday and find out some more details on his needs and the machines they have. Heck, who knows maybe he will decide that he wants to spend more on a better machine.

I do recall on one the machines the guy showed me is it was manufactured in 2012. So not all of them are going to be ancient machines.

 

[escrow4]

That is fine if they can afford it. What would you have to spend to get that, $700 or more? My guy would not want to spend that much, I don't think. I am sure that he can afford a better system but we all have to draw the line somewhere. I could have him spend $1000 or more easily but would he want to, no. I would love for him to have a system like that but not everybody can afford or justify that much.

<snip>

More or less. I wouldn't put any dual core inside any system I expected to last in 2014.

 

[Cerb]

I think 2C4T (Core i3) are quite fine, for most users, as they tend not to multitask much, if at all, or keep much in the way of CPU hogs running. For anyone doing any kind of content creation, software development, or anything else that could use the extra cache, though, you might as well get two more real cores along the way, and make it an i5. I agree about the RAM, though.

With a typical office PC, though, it's easier to slip in those incremental upgrades, as $400 or more is often going into software, between a Professional Windows license, Office, and whatever else you need. If only the big boys would offer SSDs at decent prices, in non-custom configs.

As far as Dells, I think they need to have humans that can see color testing their choices of backlights for the low-end Optiplex AIOs, and all their Latitudes. But, build quality is still pretty good, and the Optiplexes and Latitudes, at least, use good quality parts all-around, and have well-designed cases. XPS desktops are decent for home use, but the Inspirons are typical chinsy designs, and have some cheaping out on parts going on, too. The exception, IME, are the higher-end Inspiron AIOs, which, if you're wanting an AIO, are pretty good, including not having harsh blue backlighting.

 

[mfenn]

He really didn't give me a max budget but he is willing to spend more. Let's say he has a budget of $400, would you get a better system by building it or buying a prebuilt? How much would he need to spend for me to make it worth while for me to build one for him? I think he is leaning towards a prebuilt just for the fact that it would be much quicker than if I were to build one.

This sort of thinking is an example of putting your wants before the best interest of your client. The question is not "What would he need to do so that I can do what I want to do?", but rather "What would work best for him?"

You can get a totally serviceable Optiplex 780 with a Q9400, 4GB of RAM, and Windows 7 for $266. Hell, you could get two to have a hot spare and still come out ahead.

 

[strep3241]

This sort of thinking is an example of putting your wants before the best interest of your client. The question is not "What would he need to do so that I can do what I want to do?", but rather "What would work best for him?"

You can get a totally serviceable Optiplex 960 with a Q9400, 4GB of RAM, and Windows 7 for $266. Hell, you could get two to have a hot spare and still come out ahead.

How is that putting my needs before his? I would be building it for him with his budget. Most likely, I would not be charging him to build one if that is what you are talking about since we help each other out quite a bit.

That looks like a decent system but would rather have 64bit Windows because of the ram. Are there many systems that has a 2 hard drive? That is not a deal breaker if there isn't many to chose from but would be nice. I can always add one myself.

Like I said before, I am kind of leary about buying a computer online. I would be worried that something might happen to it. No matter how well stuff is packed, stuff still happens. Are online computers preassembled and ready to use out of the box? Or do they ship everything separate and it has to be put together when it arrives?

 

[mfenn]

How is that putting my needs before his? I would be building it for him with his budget. Most likely, I would not be charging him to build one if that is what you are talking about since we help each other out quite a bit.

Quoting your statement again for reference:
"How much would he need to spend for me to make it worth while for me to build one for him?"

It is putting your wants before his because you're purposefully skewing your thinking to what you want to do rather than looking at it objectively. If you ever find yourself thinking, "What would he need to do so that I...", then you're looking at it the wrong way.

That looks like a decent system but would rather have 64bit Windows because of the ram. Are there many systems that has a 2 hard drive? That is not a deal breaker if there isn't many to chose from but would be nice. I can always add one myself.

You won't find many OEM systems configured with two hard drives, especially not in the mainstream (read: common and inexpensive). It's of course possible to add another drive after the fact.

Like I said before, I am kind of leary about buying a computer online. I would be worried that something might happen to it. No matter how well stuff is packed, stuff still happens. Are online computers preassembled and ready to use out of the box? Or do they ship everything separate and it has to be put together when it arrives?

A computer that you order online is exactly the same as if you would buy it in the store. It comes as a fully assembled box that you plug in to mouse, monitor, keyboard, and power.

 

[strep3241]

Quoting your statement again for reference:
"How much would he need to spend for me to make it worth while for me to build one for him?"

It is putting your wants before his because you're purposefully skewing your thinking to what you want to do rather than looking at it objectively. If you ever find yourself thinking, "What would he need to do so that I...", then you're looking at it the wrong way.



You won't find many OEM systems configured with two hard drives, especially not in the mainstream (read: common and inexpensive). It's of course possible to add another drive after the fact.



A computer that you order online is exactly the same as if you would buy it in the store. It comes as a fully assembled box that you plug in to mouse, monitor, keyboard, and power.

Maybe I worded that wrong but it does not make a difference to me if he has me build one or if he buys a prebuilt. I was trying to decide if it would be better performance and cost wise for him to have me build one or not.