Che Guevara T-Shirts

[m1ldslide1]

And no I don't own a shirt because:
A) It's irony that even I can't bear and
B) I wouldn't wear a t-shirt with somebody's face on it that killed innocents for ideology.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: manowar821I think you're confused, communism is not inherently evil, neither is capitalism. The government system is what drives the evil, it has absolutely nothing to do with the economic system.

Communism sucks, because even if communism did work, working and all that would not be rewarded. No matter how hard you worked, you could not better your position--so why work at all? Why work to get fruits of your labor, if those fruits are distributed to other people?

Communism is a bum (both literally and figuratively) economic system that plain sucks.

Why work? No work, no society, know work, know society.

No, again, this is not true. The idea is that as the country does better, so do the people. They are given more of what they want as well as what they need. The government is not necessarily going to steal the money and use it for war or on the presidents 5000 dollar cigars, that is only if the government is a fascism, totalitarianism, or dictatorship.

In communism, you have a greater sense of community, because you're all working toward a ever raising economic, diplomatic, and technological bar. What you do is indeed rewarded. At least, in theory.

Also, in theory, workers in capitalistic societies are supposed to be making a living and then some... We all know how well that works, in practice, too.

We are not the end-all best country in the world, and I wish that people wouldn't be so blindly nationalistic and oblivious to that fact.

Unless you believe that "greatest country on gods green earth" nonsense.

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: adairusmc
No, I do not own one because I know who the worthless scumbag was.

I do own one of these though.

I find that shirt more offensive than the Che shirt. Reagan killed far, far more innocents than Che.

:laugh:

 

[SSP]

Originally posted by: adairusmc
No, I do not own one because I know who the worthless scumbag was.

I do own one of these though.

Reagan never looked as hot as this.... (note:wedgie 😉)


No/Yes

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: manowar821I think you're confused, communism is not inherently evil, neither is capitalism. The government system is what drives the evil, it has absolutely nothing to do with the economic system.

Communism sucks, because even if communism did work, working and all that would not be rewarded. No matter how hard you worked, you could not better your position--so why work at all? Why work to get fruits of your labor, if those fruits are distributed to other people?

Communism is a bum (both literally and figuratively) economic system that plain sucks.

Why work? No work, no society, know work, know society.

No, again, this is not true. The idea is that as the country does better, so do the people. They are given more of what they want as well as what they need. The government is not necessarily going to steal the money and use it for war or on the presidents 5000 dollar cigars, that is only if the government is a fascism, totalitarianism, or dictatorship.

In communism, you have a greater sense of community, because you're all working toward a ever raising economic, diplomatic, and technological bar. What you do is indeed rewarded. At least, in theory.

Also, in theory, workers in capitalistic societies are supposed to be making a living and then some... We all know how well that works, in practice, too.

We are not the end-all best country in the world, and I wish that people wouldn't be so blindly nationalistic and oblivious to that fact.

Unless you believe that "greatest country on gods green earth" nonsense.

You must be trolling.

You don't actually believe the garbage you type, right?

 

[Mrvile]

I voted NO I don't have a shirt and NO I don't know who he is. I mean I know he was a revolutionary but I don't really know what he stood for. And I don't really care either.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: JS80
Communism: bow to my communist ideology or I will kill you.
Capitalism: do what you want.

Difference between communism and capitalism is that in one, it's either conformity or death, whilst in the other you have the freedom to choose (except for the ability to force other people to do what you want).

You have an exceedingly naive view of capitalism.

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: manowar821
No, again, this is not true. The idea is that as the country does better, so do the people. They are given more of what they want as well as what they need. The government is not necessarily going to steal the money and use it for war or on the presidents 5000 dollar cigars, that is only if the government is a fascism, totalitarianism, or dictatorship.

In communism, you have a greater sense of community, because you're all working toward a ever raising economic, diplomatic, and technological bar. What you do is indeed rewarded. At least, in theory.

Also, in theory, workers in capitalistic societies are supposed to be making a living and then some... We all know how well that works, in practice, too.

We are not the end-all best country in the world, and I wish that people wouldn't be so blindly nationalistic and oblivious to that fact.

Unless you believe that "greatest country on gods green earth" nonsense.

You must be trolling.

You don't actually believe the garbage you type, right?

There was nothing wrong with what he typed...that's exactly how the theoretical communist society is supposed to work. Just goes to show how much theory differs from practice, ESPECIALLY when politics is involved.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: JS80
Communism: bow to my communist ideology or I will kill you.
Capitalism: do what you want.

Difference between communism and capitalism is that in one, it's either conformity or death, whilst in the other you have the freedom to choose (except for the ability to force other people to do what you want).

You have an exceedingly naive view of capitalism.

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: manowar821
No, again, this is not true. The idea is that as the country does better, so do the people. They are given more of what they want as well as what they need. The government is not necessarily going to steal the money and use it for war or on the presidents 5000 dollar cigars, that is only if the government is a fascism, totalitarianism, or dictatorship.

In communism, you have a greater sense of community, because you're all working toward a ever raising economic, diplomatic, and technological bar. What you do is indeed rewarded. At least, in theory.

Also, in theory, workers in capitalistic societies are supposed to be making a living and then some... We all know how well that works, in practice, too.

We are not the end-all best country in the world, and I wish that people wouldn't be so blindly nationalistic and oblivious to that fact.

Unless you believe that "greatest country on gods green earth" nonsense.

You must be trolling.

You don't actually believe the garbage you type, right?

There was nothing wrong with what he typed...that's exactly how the theoretical communist society is supposed to work. Just goes to show how much theory differs from practice, ESPECIALLY when politics is involved.

Yeah, you're right, just that none of the theory means jack shit when it NEVER holds true in practice.

I was probably really referring to "Also, I wouldn't exactly idolize him. I agree with his views, I do not agree with how he went about it."

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: adairusmc
No, I do not own one because I know who the worthless scumbag was.

I do own one of these though.

thats funny, as I own this.
🙂

 

[zach0624]

Probably 90% of people with those shirts are just wearing them because they are "cool".
the other 10 are commies who should ______(fill in the blank with some violent method of torture).

 

[Sphexi]

Originally posted by: waggy
how is it he got so popular with kids today?

Kids are stupid.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: zach0624
Probably 90% of people with those shirts are just wearing them because they are "cool".
the other 10 are commies who should ______(fill in the blank with some violent method of torture).

i do know a kid from my highschool who would wear random CCCP shirts and the classic Che red shirt, and yes he was all for communism. Although he agrees communism rarely works, and as I tend to say to him (and he too believes): the nearest a state ever has been to ideal communism was the Lenin-era of Russia.

 

[Syringer]

So if a kid stole a Che shirt or printed it on their own would that be okay?

 

[Adn4n]

I'd rather wear the Che shirt than a Reagan shirt. I do have a shirt of my face though.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: zach0624
Probably 90% of people with those shirts are just wearing them because they are "cool".
the other 10 are commies who should ______(fill in the blank with some violent method of torture).

i do know a kid from my highschool who would wear random CCCP shirts and the classic Che red shirt, and yes he was all for communism. Although he agrees communism rarely works, and as I tend to say to him (and he too believes): the nearest a state ever has been to ideal communism was the Lenin-era of Russia.

😕 Ideal communism is typified by civil war, economic collapse, famine, starvation, and murder?


Communism NEVER works. The fallacy of communism is that it pretends that unequal distribution of wealth is somehow worse than the concentration of absolute and uncontrolled political power. The predictable result is that they get both.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Communism: bow to my communist ideology or I will kill you.
Capitalism: do what you want.

Difference between communism and capitalism is that in one, it's either conformity or death, whilst in the other you have the freedom to choose (except for the ability to force other people to do what you want).

Sort of like all of those capitalist kids choosing to make shoes for $.10 a day? Um, yeah. Sure, it's the best they've got and it's better than nothing. But if the choice is to work for Nike or starve to death, how much of a choice is that? Do you really think that was the choice they made 100 years ago? Do you really think that they're better off now than then? There's more to the world than what you see on prime time.

I know that two-step reasoning is an evil tool of the intellectual liberal conspiracy, but I figured it's worth a shot.

If you're actually intellectual then you should know that capitalism is a liberal philosophy, and communism/socialism its antithesis.

The saddest fact of this reasoning BTW is that poor have existed in every communist nation on earth. The economic equality never occurs. And as power remains unsteadily concentrated to a few, it never will. So, as consequence of an irrational ideology, you get the worst of both worlds: poverty and absolute mandatory conformity.
Which in turn in the greatest irony of the Che t-shirt wearers. They probably think they're being non-conformists by wearing them, all the while advertising an ideology that requires strict conformity or death.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: manowar821
I don't own one, because the very thought of his own face on a capitalized T-Shirt would make him vomit.

It's stupidly ironic, stereotypical of todays youth, and hypocritical.

I thought about buying one of those with his face that has the caption "I fought capitalism and all I got was this stupid t-shirt" or whatever.

Also, I wouldn't exactly idolize him. I agree with his views, I do not agree with how he went about it. Killing innocent people? WTF CHE?!

How do you enforce communism without killing/forcing people who are against you? Communism and mass murder come hand in hand.

Ever hear of a kibbutz? They're becoming much less popular nowadays but that system has survived a decently long time. There was much more of a need for it before Israel/Palestine was industrialized.

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Communism: bow to my communist ideology or I will kill you.
Capitalism: do what you want.

Difference between communism and capitalism is that in one, it's either conformity or death, whilst in the other you have the freedom to choose (except for the ability to force other people to do what you want).

Sort of like all of those capitalist kids choosing to make shoes for $.10 a day? Um, yeah. Sure, it's the best they've got and it's better than nothing. But if the choice is to work for Nike or starve to death, how much of a choice is that? Do you really think that was the choice they made 100 years ago? Do you really think that they're better off now than then? There's more to the world than what you see on prime time.

I know that two-step reasoning is an evil tool of the intellectual liberal conspiracy, but I figured it's worth a shot.

Actually those kids are better off now. Those kids are now making a consistent wage rather than doing some menial task like fetching wood or gathering dirty water. Those kids could be working on a farm but the opportunity to work in a factory is much better and more consistent in terms of wages. The majority of child labor isn't as bad as you think. Only a small percentage work in factories where conditions are similar to places that employ adult workers and also roughly as risky health-wise as what they would be doing on a farm.

It's only when there is forced labor like children being sold into slavery to pay off debts that is completely indefensible.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Che shirts seem to be popular with idealistic or ignorant (or both) college kids.

 

[soonerproud]

I say we all buy che t-shirts and have embossed on them Capitalism Rocks! What a fitting way to remember the scumbag and the ideology he killed and died for.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: soonerproud
I say we all buy che t-shirts and have embossed on them Capitalism Rocks! What a fitting way to remember the scumbag and the ideology he killed and died for.

Or better yet... print and sell your own! Profit! Capitalism FTW! 😛

 

[m1ldslide1]

Actually those kids are better off now. Those kids are now making a consistent wage rather than doing some menial task like fetching wood or gathering dirty water. Those kids could be working on a farm but the opportunity to work in a factory is much better and more consistent in terms of wages. The majority of child labor isn't as bad as you think. Only a small percentage work in factories where conditions are similar to places that employ adult workers and also roughly as risky health-wise as what they would be doing on a farm.

It's only when there is forced labor like children being sold into slavery to pay off debts that is completely indefensible.

Gathering wood or dirty water is more menial than textile work? I'm not so sure about that. I realize that the whole "child-labor is building your nikes" is more of a headline than a reality, but the gradual industrialization of a 3rd world country and the harsh conditions it produces is a reality. It happened in the US during the industrial revolution, but that is all comfortably in the history books. It's going to happen everywhere no matter what, but I don't see how these "developing economies" are really better than subsistence farming. I'm not anti-progress; I work in IT after all. I just don't see how people leaving the farms in order to get menial labor jobs to survive is actual progress for them or their families.

After all, how did that water get dirty? A large portion of it can be attributed to the industrialization sans environmental controls, it could also be attributed to population increase where the local river is the sewer, garbage dump, and bathing location of preference. What triggered the population increase? I'm not sure I can answer that, having never studied anthropology (or a country's local history) in enough detail.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Communism: bow to my communist ideology or I will kill you.
Capitalism: do what you want.

Difference between communism and capitalism is that in one, it's either conformity or death, whilst in the other you have the freedom to choose (except for the ability to force other people to do what you want).

Sort of like all of those capitalist kids choosing to make shoes for $.10 a day? Um, yeah. Sure, it's the best they've got and it's better than nothing. But if the choice is to work for Nike or starve to death, how much of a choice is that? Do you really think that was the choice they made 100 years ago? Do you really think that they're better off now than then? There's more to the world than what you see on prime time.

I know that two-step reasoning is an evil tool of the intellectual liberal conspiracy, but I figured it's worth a shot.

If you're actually intellectual then you should know that capitalism is a liberal philosophy, and communism/socialism its antithesis.

The saddest fact of this reasoning BTW is that poor have existed in every communist nation on earth. The economic equality never occurs. And as power remains unsteadily concentrated to a few, it never will. So, as consequence of an irrational ideology, you get the worst of both worlds: poverty and absolute mandatory conformity.
Which in turn in the greatest irony of the Che t-shirt wearers. They probably think they're being non-conformists by wearing them, all the while advertising an ideology that requires strict conformity or death.

Agreed on all fronts - the intellectual liberal conspiracy comment was me being aggravated at so many posts before mine saying that Che t-shirt wearers were liberal commie idiots. Should've clarified.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: soonerproud
I say we all buy che t-shirts and have embossed on them Capitalism Rocks! What a fitting way to remember the scumbag and the ideology he killed and died for.

Or better yet... print and sell your own! Profit! Capitalism FTW! 😛

that's the greatest thing about the Che shirts, people who buy them are completely ignoring the greatest irony of the shirts: some company is making all of them, reaping the profits in typical capitalistic ways. People don't really realize the idea of those shirts is completely antithesis to the ideals of Che himself. muahaha the company that makes that shirt = genius. 🙂

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Communism: bow to my communist ideology or I will kill you.
Capitalism: do what you want.

Difference between communism and capitalism is that in one, it's either conformity or death, whilst in the other you have the freedom to choose (except for the ability to force other people to do what you want).

Sort of like all of those capitalist kids choosing to make shoes for $.10 a day? Um, yeah. Sure, it's the best they've got and it's better than nothing. But if the choice is to work for Nike or starve to death, how much of a choice is that? Do you really think that was the choice they made 100 years ago? Do you really think that they're better off now than then? There's more to the world than what you see on prime time.

I know that two-step reasoning is an evil tool of the intellectual liberal conspiracy, but I figured it's worth a shot.

Children in vietnam live under communism :roll:

Not only that they are better off making $0.10 and be able to eat for the day than starve with no Nike factory providing them jobs.

Imagine how many kids you killed because you protested against Nike sweatshops?

 

[Vic]

About kibbutzim, that is where communalism actually works, at the small, local, and (most importantly) voluntary scale. In fact, that is what most genuinely liberal thinkers perceive to be the ideal society, a system of local voluntary communes that compete against themselves inside a greater capitalist society.
The irrationality of communism is when you try to force this ideal upon everybody, whether they like it or not, throughout the entirety of a vast nation. What breaks it down at this large scale is not greed or selfishness, but just that people have differing views on what an ideal society should be like, and at that large of scale there is simply no way that anyone is going to agree or be happy with any single ideal. The result is that everyone gets forced to live under one person's ideal.
I recall a comment about communist Romania under Ceausescu, that it was "20 million people living inside the mind of a single mad man."