"Charge Opportunistically" vs Removable Battery

[mnewsham]

That is more than twice as large as that LG one. Does it add a lot of bulk? Sure but if you need it you need it. That is better than ALWAYS having other batteries/packs in your pocket that you might lose.

You're missing the point, how many people do you personally know who couldn't charge their phone every 2 days? Even people buying super large 7500mAh batteries will normally top off every day or two, it's the same thing. Once you get 3,000mAh or so that usually gives you 1.5-2 days of battery which again for most non niche users is more than acceptable. Hell I bet 95% of the time it'd be fine for your usage patterns too.
I'd go so far as to argue 7500mAh batteries promote opportunistic charging, they give you the power to last until you can plug it in. In my opinion though 3000mAh is enough and I don't need the added bulk or weight of a removable 5000mAh+ battery.

 

[podspi]

Personally, I think the order is:

1) Removable battery
2) Battery pack
3) Opportunistically charging

I do agree that larger internal batteries somewhat negate the need for removable batteries (for most users), but it's always nice to have an extra you can swap out easily. I have an SGS3, and even though I have a Zerolemon I always also have two standard batteries (in my briefcase) just in case.

There are a couple issues with battery packs that I see (although, I have one and use it, not saying they are useless):

1) Often the phone can use more power than it can receive from the battery pack

2) The battery back IS inconvenient, if you're trying to use your device while charging it (same issue with charging it all the time too)

3) It IS wasteful to charge a battery, and then use that battery to charge another battery. Most people in the US probably don't care about this though, since power is cheap cheap cheap

 

[poofyhairguy]

You're missing the point, how many people do you personally know who couldn't charge their phone every 2 days? Even people buying super large 7500mAh batteries will normally top off every day or two, it's the same thing. Once you get 3,000mAh or so that usually gives you 1.5-2 days of battery which again for most non niche users is more than acceptable. Hell I bet 95% of the time it'd be fine for your usage patterns too.
I'd go so far as to argue 7500mAh batteries promote opportunistic charging, they give you the power to last until you can plug it in. In my opinion though 3000mAh is enough and I don't need the added bulk or weight of a removable 5000mAh+ battery.

Hmm, good point. The most I ever used in a day was two full S4 batteries from 100% to empty. That is 2600 mAh x2, but that is also my peak.

 

[poofyhairguy]

1) Often the phone can use more power than it can receive from the battery pack

I have been there before. Adobe Flash on full brightness will do that.

 

[dawheat]

I'd rather solve this with a step forward in standard battery life. The LG G2 is a nice first step and rumors are Samsung is going to take another step with the S5. Stepped/curved batteries allowing for 3300mAh to 4000mAh sizes within a S5 class phone would solve probably 90%+ of low battery cases.

A 4000mAh+ battery in a Note 4 would provide ridiculous battery life, combined with whatever the newest power saving features are.

 

[sweenish]

Removable batteries are a good choice, and I don't see it going away anytime soon. I have one (Verizon GNex about 2 years old), and don't care either way. I don't swap it out, and I won't be getting a fresh one, as I'll be getting a fresh phone instead.

If it ever comes down to it, I'll get a battery pack instead. It's more versatile, and I very much doubt that when I need to charge, I'll still NEED to use the device at the same time.

I have a desk job, I charge my phone before leaving for home. It does blow when we're out and about all day, but that's much more to do with my phone having a small battery and being a battery killer. My next phone will be a Nexus 5, and while pure capacity isn't that much higher, power enveloping on LTE and a more efficient chip will probably be plenty to get me through a day. And my car charger.

And I'd still take my phone dying over carrying batteries with me everywhere I go.

 

[PowerYoga]

Yeah, I am thinking huge huge. Like the Zero Lemon:.

I have the zerolemon. It's huge. It also lasts about 2.5 days with constant usage, or 1.5 days with heavy usage. A normal battery would go kaput in half a day with heavy usage (GPS, navigation, texting and calling).

It's huge and unwieldy, but I can overlook that with the absurd battery life. Would I rather it be half the size and half the weight and keep all the juice? Definitely. But let me know when that technology becomes commercially viable to manufacture and mainstreamed.

 

[mnewsham]

I have the zerolemon. It's huge. It also lasts about 2.5 days with constant usage, or 1.5 days with heavy usage. A normal battery would go kaput in half a day with heavy usage (GPS, navigation, texting and calling).

It's huge and unwieldy, but I can overlook that with the absurd battery life. Would I rather it be half the size and half the weight and keep all the juice? Definitely. But let me know when that technology becomes commercially viable to manufacture and mainstreamed.

You only get 1 day of heavy use from 7500mAh? That's pretty bad I get a whole day of very heavy use from 3000mAh on the G2, can easily watch a few HD movies on battery no problem, I guess other, newer power efficiency improvements help though.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

To be fair though, one cannot buy a phone from a major manufacturer with a removable battery over ~2600mAh it's after market for anything else, it also gives the phone considerably more weight, requires charging past 100% which can make it difficult to tell how much battery is left and usually makes the phone twice as large. Not really the best option in my opinion. The LG Gflex has a 3,500mAh battery because they can shape the battery to the phone since it is nonremovable. That's stock direct from manufacturer. Its meant to be that way. Looks good, not too bulky, and lasts for days.

Again its not for everyone, but with larger nonremovable batteries it really makes removable batteries less appealing to the majority.

The Galaxy Note 3 has a 3200mAh removable battery.

 

[mnewsham]

The Galaxy Note 3 has a 3200mAh removable battery.

Yea the note 3 is pretty much one of the only exceptions though. There are always going to be exceptions so meh.

 

[PowerYoga]

You only get 1 day of heavy use from 7500mAh? That's pretty bad I get a whole day of very heavy use from 3000mAh on the G2, can easily watch a few HD movies on battery no problem, I guess other, newer power efficiency improvements help though.

Keep in mind this is with GPS and navigation turned on for a few hours and the screen being on the whole time, talking and calling up car services, hotels, and then playing games for a few hours while on the plane. I don't watch movies on my phone so I can't tell how draining that is in comparison to using the phone as a GPS, but the navigation destroys the battery.

 

[poofyhairguy]

You only get 1 day of heavy use from 7500mAh?

I bet I could kill one of those in a day if I tried.

The trick is to stick to things that aren't efficient at all on a mobile phone. Like HD Adobe Flash, PSX emulation or bluetooth tethering.

 

[Zaap]

I personally feel that not having the option to replace the battery leads to people doing what I would call "charging unfortunately," which happens every time a smartphone user has a long phone call sitting on the ground next to a wall.

And the evidence proves my theory correct:



http://www.techlicious.com/blog/do-you-need-your-tablet-or-laptop-to-have-a-good-vacation/

So if half of travelers are having to compromise for power, isn't the ability to swap out the power source the most obvious solution until every device has some magic 3 day battery life?

It might make people more considerate. From the same source:

Have to agree 100%. Whatever advantages of a non-removable battery, for me, they are more than outweighed by the disadvantages. I'd rather have both. I can do all the same tethering/battery pack options, yet I can also just simply change my battery and be 100% restored nearly instantly.

I just got this charger stand for my Note 3:

Charges my phone and an extra battery standing right behind the phone at the same time.

I also keep a battery charger at work. I like my mobile devices to be available for infinite use, like a DSLR camera. Imagine how ridiculous it would be if you had to cancel a photo shoot to go tether the camera to a wall for however long, because of some silly external battery hangup. You simply change the battery and keep shooting, because the device's overall function is more important than some stylistic preference hangup.

As ridiculous as that prospect is, it's even more hideous to me to consider that a device that should be even more mobile and always-ready should ever need to be tethered.

 

[ThisIsChrisKim]

Right, so I'm having trouble understanding how carrying an external battery charger when you travel is ok, but carrying an external battery pack is somehow not. Especially since the battery pack is more useful as it could charge multiple different devices and could provide 2-3 charges on a single charge itself, whereas to do the same swapping battery packs is going to require you to have 3-4 batteries total.

Because you only carry the battery on you. The external charger stays at home or in your hotel room. You have your phone + one battery with you and you have enough battery to last you for the day. Unless somehow you're going into a place with no electricity at all... but in those places, I doubt you'd be getting much internet/data connectivity.

Remember too that when you have a battery pack charger, you lose energy/power going from device to device. So while a battery pack charger might be a 7500mAh, you may only get the equivalent of 6000mAh out of that pack. Also, the charging speed of the battery pack is much slower so your length of inconvenience is far greater, too. (~2 hours in the middle of your work day with a battery pack tethered to your phone)

 

[ponyo]

People want to validate their purchase decision. If they have sealed phone, they'll make the argument external battery pack is just as good as removable battery. Meanwhile, person with removable battery can utilize both removable battery and external battery pack. And "opportunistic charging." When is 2/3 > than 3/3?

 

[bearxor]

Because you only carry the battery on you. The external charger stays at home or in your hotel room. You have your phone + one battery with you and you have enough battery to last you for the day. Unless somehow you're going into a place with no electricity at all... but in those places, I doubt you'd be getting much internet/data connectivity.

Remember too that when you have a battery pack charger, you lose energy/power going from device to device. So while a battery pack charger might be a 7500mAh, you may only get the equivalent of 6000mAh out of that pack. Also, the charging speed of the battery pack is much slower so your length of inconvenience is far greater, too. (~2 hours in the middle of your work day with a battery pack tethered to your phone)

You have to know how to use these chargers. If you're going from 2% to 100%, it might take two hours. What you SHOULD be doing, is going from 15-20% to 80%. That takes about 20-30 minutes on most modern phones, depending on the size of the internal battery. I can go from 20% to 80% on an iPhone 5S in less than 20 minutes on an external 5000mah charger. And I can do that three times on one charge of the battery. It takes another 6-8 hours to get it back down to 20%. Even if you went from dead to 80%, it would still take less than an hour.

Phones fast charge to 80% or so. Then they trickle charge. I still don't think it would take an hour to get a 5S from dead to 100% but it is only like a 1500mah battery or so.

I would time it right now, but I just looked at my phone I took off the charger at 5am this morning and i still have 82% of a charge on it. Maybe the most important thing to do if you're seriously this concerned about battery life is to not buy a phone that sucks battery like it's a vampire draining your phone of blood.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

The battery pack and cable are going to be larger than just the removable battery, so it's not a 1:1.

But the advantage is that if you have multiple devices, then you only need to carry the one battery pack and can juice up all of them.

I don't carry a battery pack with me everyday just like I don't carry another battery. However, if I'm on vacation where I carry a backpack I'll certainly stuff a battery pack in there.

It makes more sense anyway than to have a separate battery. How do you manage charging that other battery? You need a dock to make sure that your 2 removable batteries (including the one in your phone) are always charged. Otherwise you have to do awkward swapping.

 

[mnewsham]

People want to validate their purchase decision. If they have sealed phone, they'll make the argument external battery pack is just as good as removable battery. Meanwhile, person with removable battery can utilize both removable battery and external battery pack. And "opportunistic charging." When is 2/3 > than 3/3?

Yes because that view point isn't biased at all...

Both have good and bad points, pick whichever meets your needs. If you went to change the battery often? Removable battery. If you just want a larger battery without a much larger phone? Nonremovable battery. Obviously that's simplified, but the point remains. Don't come in saying that sealed phone users have to defend their purchase choice and then fail to mention anywhere anything negative about removable batteries, seems like you're just defending your own purchase choice that way. And its not so cut and dry that you can unequivocally state one is better than the other, it can obviously change from one user to the next which would be best for them.

 

[Zaap]

If you just want a larger battery without a much larger phone? Nonremovable battery. Obviously that's simplified, but the point remains.

A bit too simplified, because it's not really true of my Note 3. A non-removable battery would not have made it much smaller if at all. It's about as thin and light as a phone gets with a screen this size.

Ponyo's point is perfectly valid since we're mainly talking about charging situations. I can charge my Note 3 all the same ways a non-removable phone can (tethered, battery pack) plus swap the battery. 3/3 > 2/3.

There always tends to be this either/or mindset in these discussions where people seem to forget that mentioning their preference for a battery pack or using cloud storage (in the mSD card debate) doesn't negate MY ability to use either of those as well. 3/3 > 2/3.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

A bit too simplified, because it's not really true of my Note 3. A non-removable battery would not have made it much smaller if at all. It's about as thin and light as a phone gets with a screen this size.

Ponyo's point is perfectly valid since we're mainly talking about charging situations. I can charge my Note 3 all the same ways a non-removable phone can (tethered, battery pack) plus swap the battery. 3/3 > 2/3.

There always tends to be this either/or mindset in these discussions where people seem to forget that mentioning their preference for a battery pack or using cloud storage (in the mSD card debate) doesn't negate MY ability to use either of those as well. 3/3 > 2/3.

No one has really done that experiment, and the only data out there shows that there are fat and skinny phones without removable batteries, but it doesn't go to show that the same phone when built without removable batteries would be thinner or fatter.

 

[openwheel]

I have no objection to removable battery. Yay!

1. removable battery with fully charged back up battery.
2. sealed battery and carry a power pack for travel.

both options are better than:
3. sealed battery, sit on the floor at terminal two near restroom because my phone is about to die and this is the only outlet available.
4. removable battery, forgot to charge backup battery, sit on the floor at terminal two near restroom because my phone is about to die and this is the only outlet available.

 

[Zaap]

No one has really done that experiment, and the only data out there shows that there are fat and skinny phones without removable batteries, but it doesn't go to show that the same phone when built without removable batteries would be thinner or fatter.

I was responding to a point claiming "a much larger phone".

So basically... no.

 

[mnewsham]

A bit too simplified, because it's not really true of my Note 3. A non-removable battery would not have made it much smaller if at all. It's about as thin and light as a phone gets with a screen this size.

Are you kidding, the note 3 is about as large as you could go and still consider it a phone, of course it can fit a huge battery that's removable, it's a big phone period. If it had a nonremovable battery you probably could have seen 3,500mAh instead of 3,200mAh.
You can't tout the benefits of removable battery as a whole unbiasedly while using one of the current largest removable battery devices out there. The note 3 is as I said the exception, currently it's one of the only ones. I'd love to see battery tech improve so we can have 5000mAh removable batteries. But I'll settle on larger nonremovable batteries for now instead of the usual 2600mAh android phone batteries. Again tho note 3 is the exception, I'd have gladly had the note 3 myself were it not for the price.

 

[desura]

power banks are a godsend for this reason.

I've definitely...inconvenienced myself for a charge. Think like a cold seat by a drafty window.

 

[Brian Stirling]

I have an external power pack but haven't needed it in a long time.

My preference is to have a large enough battery to comfortably last all day with heavy use and several days with lighter use. I travel a lot so I use my phone as an alarm clock whether I'm away or home and since it's by my bedside I plug it in every night to charge it. I don't worry about overcharging as the makers have, for a long time, used smart charging hardware.

I have a new iP5S that my company provides and had an iP4 for a couple years before that, also company provided, and I never had the battery run down before the end of the day and in fact, I often charge them every other day. My HTC One, OTH, gets charged everyday but since I haven't been hammering it real hard for a while I haven't had it get below about 25% in months. I use the HTC One about 80% versus 20% for the iPhone.

If I had my druthers, though, I'd have wanted more like a 3000mahr battery versus the 2300mahr battery it came with. I'd really like to see the race to every slimmer phones come to an end and let me have one with a decent sized battery built in. If the battery is big enough it doesn't much matter to me if it's soldered in or replaceable.


Brian