"Charge Opportunistically" vs Removable Battery

[poofyhairguy]

Ok, rather than continue to hijack the SD card thread about removable batteries I thought that this issue is important enough to have its own thread.

I honestly am offended by the concept that "opportunistic charging" is the answer for non-removable batteries. The base assumption here is that everyone is always surrounded by either a sea of easily accessible wall outlets or usb ports. Maybe during a lot of your normal days when you are at home or at work at a desk this might be case (for those who work at desks!), but I have long argued that removable batteries are best for the random odd days a year when you are away from the outlets. For example, when you are traveling or doing outdoor activities.

I personally feel that not having the option to replace the battery leads to people doing what I would call "charging unfortunately," which happens every time a smartphone user has a long phone call sitting on the ground next to a wall.

And the evidence proves my theory correct:

Almost half of travelers (46 percent) and 63 percent of young travelers admit compromising their personal comfort and hygiene to find a power source to keep their device charged. This means people are choosing a restaurant or coffee house based on outlet availability, looking for outlets in public restrooms (yuck!), as well as trading comfort and hygiene to sit on the floor near an outlet.

http://www.techlicious.com/blog/do-you-need-your-tablet-or-laptop-to-have-a-good-vacation/

So if half of travelers are having to compromise for power, isn't the ability to swap out the power source the most obvious solution until every device has some magic 3 day battery life?

It might make people more considerate. From the same source:

Thirteen percent of young travelers admit to "hogging" an available power source.

 

[bearxor]

Those people are dumb.

You know what I do if I know I'm going to be travelling with little to no access to an outlet? I buy an external battery pack. If these people spent $30 on a 5000mah external battery pack, the problem would be solved. And that can't be much worse than buying extra batteries and then having to swap batteries between your phone to keep them constantly charged or buying an external charger for just batteries.

And I had been wondering why the mSD thread was going on for so long!

 

[Capt Caveman]

Those people are dumb.

You know what I do if I know I'm going to be travelling with little to no access to an outlet? I buy an external battery pack. If these people spent $30 on a 5000mah external battery pack, the problem would be solved. And that can't be much worse than buying extra batteries and then having to swap batteries between your phone to keep them constantly charged or buying an external charger for just batteries.

And I had been wondering why the mSD thread was going on for so long!

This. I have a 10000mah battery pack and will probably get a smaller one for more portability. Removable battery or not, it's a non-issue when you have a battery pack with you.

 

[dlock13]

I completely agree with you. Removable batteries are only a blessing. Plus, they give the manufacturer more money, so why not? When I had my Galaxy Nexus, I charged up both batteries (in my phone) and kept the lower power one in there and the other in my pocket throughout the day.

When I had my Samsung Fascinate, I had a huge extended battery that gave it 2 days of battery life with the sacrifice of thinness. It was such a blessing.

Instead, when I received my Droid DNA, iPhone, Nexus 4, etc... I have to make sure that I charge it every so often throughout the day to even get through the day. I don't want to buy a Samsung product again (because they're taking over the world) which leaves me limited in phone selection when it comes to choosing which have removable batteries.

EDIT: Battery packs are great indeed. I guess that does make it a non-issue then. Hmm...

 

[poofyhairguy]

And that can't be much worse than buying extra batteries and then having to swap batteries between your phone to keep them constantly charged or buying an external charger for just batteries.

I have both and I admit that an external pack works 85% of the time when removable batteries would work. It would certainly solve the vacation problem (except for the hassle of having a dongle on the end of your phone if you are taking a lot of pictures).

The only downsides to a rechargeable pack for me are:

1. When I need juice but I also need to use the HDMI port (like when I am using an OTG drive or HDMI out).

2. When I am wearing dress pants and a slim battery fits in my wallet.

But certainly the rechargeable packs are a better solution than some sort of constant vigilance in regards to charging.

 

[TheStu]

I completely agree with you. Removable batteries are only a blessing. Plus, they give the manufacturer more money, so why not? When I had my Galaxy Nexus, I charged up both batteries (in my phone) and kept the lower power one in there and the other in my pocket throughout the day.

When I had my Samsung Fascinate, I had a huge extended battery that gave it 2 days of battery life with the sacrifice of thinness. It was such a blessing.

Instead, when I received my Droid DNA, iPhone, Nexus 4, etc... I have to make sure that I charge it every so often throughout the day to even get through the day. I don't want to buy a Samsung product again (because they're taking over the world) which leaves me limited in phone selection when it comes to choosing which have removable batteries.

EDIT: Battery packs are great indeed. I guess that does make it a non-issue then. Hmm...

The battery pack and cable are going to be larger than just the removable battery, so it's not a 1:1.

But the advantage is that if you have multiple devices, then you only need to carry the one battery pack and can juice up all of them.

 

[bearxor]

EDIT: Battery packs are great indeed. I guess that does make it a non-issue then. Hmm...

I want to clarify that I'm talking about travelling.

I can understand wanting to get up in the morning, go to the office, work throughout the day and then, right before you go home, swap your battery out with the one that's charged in your dock on the desk, so that you can have a new battery for the rest of the evening and the one that you took out can charge for tomorrow night. That's totally understandable.

For the situation mentioned in the OP, those people shouldn't be calling themselves "travelers" as they seem pretty unprepared to travel.

1. When I need juice but I also need to use the HDMI port (like when I am using an OTG drive or HDMI out).

2. When I am wearing dress pants and a slim battery fits in my wallet.

#1 doesn't seem to apply to traveling. It could just be me, but why would you need to use the HDMI port and the charger on the go? If you're in a hotel room, why not hook from a wall outlet to the OTG cable along with your drive?
#2 if you're wearing dress pants, are you travelling? Or are you just busy for the next couple of hours? Can't you just charge your phone afterwards? Or before? Does it need to be at 100% 24/7 in order for you to feel like you won't run out of battery power at that important time in your life?

The battery pack and cable are going to be larger than just the removable battery, so it's not a 1:1.

Right, but I'm talking about travelling. These people are going to have luggage with them in the airport. They can find room for this battery pack thats just about the size of their phone to begin with.

 

[Trombe]

Just not a fan of planned obsolescence because hand me downs are not uncommon in my family.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Right, but I'm talking about travelling.

And I agree. A battery pack is a great solution for a trip. I bought my first one right before my recent overseas flight.

 

[Tom]

Lately I've been using a beat up old LG Chocolate as my cell.

Despite years of abuse and non-use lying in a drawer, this thing stays charged for more than a week of use. Actually I don't know how long it would stay charged, I plug it in once a week or so but the battery indicator shows its still 80% charged.

And its really small and pocketable.

I think we've gotten off track with cell phones, the desire to have one device, with a big screen and a lot of horsepower, means we are very compromised in terms of really long battery life for the core functions of talking and messaging.

 

[bearxor]

Just not a fan of planned obsolescence because hand me downs are not uncommon in my family.

I would note that MOST 'non-replaceable' batteries aren't really non-replaceable. They're just not what I would call 'swappable'.

For instance, if you got handed down an iPhone 4S or iPhone 5, it wouldn't take you but about $30 and a half hour of your time at worst for someone on this forum, I'd imagine, to replace the battery in that phone. I can do it in about five minutes these days.

 

[PowerYoga]

Am I the only one that thinks using a battery to charge your battery is stupid? You should be able to just swap it out instead of having to leave something attached to your phone for the next hour and turning it into a nunchuk.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Am I the only one that thinks using a battery to charge your battery is stupid? You should be able to just swap it out instead of having to leave something attached to your phone for the next hour and turning it into a nunchuk.

It certainly causes more wear on the USB port than flipping batteries.

 

[bearxor]

Am I the only one that thinks using a battery to charge your battery is stupid? You should be able to just swap it out instead of having to leave something attached to your phone for the next hour and turning it into a nunchuk.

How do you plan to charge those extra batteries?

 

[poofyhairguy]

How do you plan to charge those extra batteries?

An external battery charger. I have gotten one for my last two phones:

Comes with a spare battery so it is a good value.

 

[ThisIsChrisKim]

Am I the only one that thinks using a battery to charge your battery is stupid? You should be able to just swap it out instead of having to leave something attached to your phone for the next hour and turning it into a nunchuk.

I think battery packs are dumb. But I've developed a usage model and modded my phone's settings to maximize battery life so I never run in this issue.

How do you plan to charge those extra batteries?

You can buy a dock, or when you're at home and have access to a charger, charge each battery to full. I did that with my GNex.

Nice thing is, in Korea, you get an extra battery when you buy your phone. It's really quite nice.

 

[mnewsham]

I think opportunistic charging becomes more viable with large internal batteries (LG G2 and Galaxy note 3 come to mind). When your battery lasts all day easily and two days of moderate use it becomes more realistic to charge your phone when you can. Work all day and couldn't access an outlet until you get home? No problem. Traveling and won't be able to charge until you get there? Again no problem unless you're playing games or watching movies. It really just turns into charging whenever is convenient for you as long as its within a day or two. Which for 90% of people it will be just fine. Now road warriors who are always on the go and need batteries for days will still want removable batteries for a quick swap. But as we can see today removable batteries as a rule will have less power than a nonremovable battery, so there is an inherent trade off that removable battery usually means either more frequent charging or battery swapping which requires a restart etc.


Anyway, point is both are fine and it depends on your usage patterns, but for the majority of consumers a nonremovable battery is just fine.

 

[bearxor]

An external battery charger. I have gotten one for my last two phones:

Comes with a spare battery so it is a good value.

You can buy a dock, or when you're at home and have access to a charger, charge each battery to full. I did that with my GNex.

Nice thing is, in Korea, you get an extra battery when you buy your phone. It's really quite nice.

Right, so I'm having trouble understanding how carrying an external battery charger when you travel is ok, but carrying an external battery pack is somehow not. Especially since the battery pack is more useful as it could charge multiple different devices and could provide 2-3 charges on a single charge itself, whereas to do the same swapping battery packs is going to require you to have 3-4 batteries total.

 

[PowerYoga]

How do you plan to charge those extra batteries?

Same way you charge your battery packs. A charger.

Right, so I'm having trouble understanding how carrying an external battery charger when you travel is ok, but carrying an external battery pack is somehow not.

I'm having trouble understanding how needing to nunchuck your phone with another equivalent sized brick to charge it is better than having a small battery you can remove and pop in a fresh one. You realize the difference is that you can have the charger packed in with your checked luggage whereas you would need to haul the battery pack around on your personal self?

 

[poofyhairguy]

But as we can see today removable batteries as a rule will have less power than a nonremovable battery, so there is an inherent trade off that removable battery usually means either more frequent charging or battery swapping which requires a restart etc.

Not necessarily. Someone can simply replace the stock battery with a massive one on most current removable battery designs and get better battery life than any device on the market.

In fact I would say upgrading the battery is the biggest benefit of a removable battery feature (compared to even battery packs) for those who are road warriors or have constant days when they drain their phones. Sure it adds thickness and weight, but a dead phone is dead weight.

 

[bearxor]

Not necessarily. Someone can simply replace the stock battery with a massive one on most current removable battery designs and get better battery life than any device on the market.

In fact I would say upgrading the battery is the biggest benefit of a removable battery feature (compared to even battery packs) for those who are road warriors or have constant days when they drain their phones. Sure it adds thickness and weight, but a dead phone is dead weight.

I'm not one to really argue with that, and there's definite use cases for it. When I was younger, I had my StarTAC with it's extended run hump battery and the clip on battery on the back. I could go for two weeks in between charges, which was great as a eighteen-year old living in Houston not knowing when I'd even go home.

Now I just carry a lightning Nomad cable with me on my keyring.

It's like the best $25 I've ever spent.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Right, so I'm having trouble understanding how carrying an external battery charger when you travel is ok, but carrying an external battery pack is somehow not.

The only downside to the external battery charger is the awkwardness of having something hang off the phone (like if you are taking a ton of vacation photos).

 

[mnewsham]

Not necessarily. Someone can simply replace the stock battery with a massive one on most current removable battery designs and get better battery life than any device on the market.

In fact I would say upgrading the battery is the biggest benefit of a removable battery feature (compared to even battery packs) for those who are road warriors or have constant days when they drain their phones. Sure it adds thickness and weight, but a dead phone is dead weight.

To be fair though, one cannot buy a phone from a major manufacturer with a removable battery over ~2600mAh it's after market for anything else, it also gives the phone considerably more weight, requires charging past 100% which can make it difficult to tell how much battery is left and usually makes the phone twice as large. Not really the best option in my opinion. The LG Gflex has a 3,500mAh battery because they can shape the battery to the phone since it is nonremovable. That's stock direct from manufacturer. Its meant to be that way. Looks good, not too bulky, and lasts for days.

Again its not for everyone, but with larger nonremovable batteries it really makes removable batteries less appealing to the majority.

 

[PowerYoga]

Not sure I've seen the "charging past 100%" thing, but most extended batteries will add weight simply because there's no better types of batteries so their only choice is to make the batteries bigger. Ideally we'd have better and better batteries that stay the same size and weight, but that's not really happening fast enough.

 

[poofyhairguy]

To be fair though, one cannot buy a phone from a major manufacturer with a removable battery over ~2600mAh it's after market for anything else, it also gives the phone considerably more weight, requires charging past 100% which can make it difficult to tell how much battery is left and usually makes the phone twice as large. Not really the best option in my opinion. The LG Gflex has a 3,500mAh battery because they can shape the battery to the phone since it is nonremovable. That's stock direct from manufacturer. Its meant to be that way. Looks good, not too bulky, and lasts for days.

Yeah, I am thinking huge huge. Like the Zero Lemon:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7163/zerolemon-7500-mah-samsung-galaxy-s-4-extended-battery-review

That is more than twice as large as that LG one. Does it add a lot of bulk? Sure but if you need it you need it. That is better than ALWAYS having other batteries/packs in your pocket that you might lose.

I don't really want to try and extrapolate how many regular people need that or what they need what-so-ever. I am pretty removed from that scene, but all the normals in my life are jealous/impressed when they see me flip my S4 battery.