Changed my mind.

[Freejack2]

Enh, I dunno, Everyone and their mother drives a Toyota. Profits goes to a Japanese company instead of an American one, and I'm not exactly thrilled about how they run their plants.

In December a couple of days before christmas when the big storm went through Indiana, Ohio, etc... They knew that the snow was going to be really bad at the Gibson County, IN plant. So what do they do, they bring in the second shift anyhow in heavy snow. Have them work 4 hours and then finally send them home only because they wouldn't have to pay the workers anything after 4 hours. So ok you say there is a profit motive, so what, nice way to treat your employees. By the time the plant closed all the roads in southern Indiana were closed and 3000 workers couldn't get home. They wouldn't even let them back into the plant to stay the night. I'm sure their employees loved spending the night in their cars.
Things like that don't exactly endear me to a company.

I suppose I'll look at the Corolla but so far nothing has endeared me to it.

 

[Freejack2]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
A bunch of people have them at work. Most complain about the lack of snow traction, but that is about it. The interior sucks. I'm only 5'9" and my knees almost hit the dash on the passenger side.

That is one thing, if I get the car I'm going to have to rip off those POS Firehawk GTA's and get some BF Goodrich Traction T/A's. That's $350 after what I'll probably get for the Firestones on Ebay. I imagine though, any car I get I'm going to have to do this.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Freejack2
I test drove it today and the center mounted gauges don't bother me. It doesn't seem like all that bad a car.

I looked at the comparison that sniperruff linked to. I built it with the options that are comparable to the Ion 3 and found the Corolla is about exactly $1300 more provided I manage to dicker the dealer down to edmunds suggested tmv price. The Corolla has less hp and less torque, a little less front leg room, 15" wheels, no traction control option, and no mp3 option on the stereo.

The Ion 3 has 0% for 3 years so I'm looking at $438 a month with $500 down. The Corolla has 1.9% for 3 years for a total of $502 a month. This translates to $2304 over 3 years. Admittedly I'd make some of that up with resale value 3 years from now, but cars with 120,000 miles don't have a high resale value to begin with.

With the only thing going for the Corolla is the probably $500 resale value in 3 years, why is the Corolla better than the Ion?

Frankly because it's a toyota. Comparing a toyota to a saturn is almost heresy. You're talking a couple thousand saved over the years perhaps, but what about hassle involved when your saturn's motor dies at 67 miles or the rest of the POS falls apart? As the years go by the toyota will still be a decent car, but the saturn will show its age like a mofo.

Regarding traction control I've only been in a car with it once in the snow (a malibu this christmas) and it sucked. I tested it on snow/ice and frankly couldn't tell a difference with it on or off. Ideally it shouldn't allow the power wheels to slip but in reality it doesn't work that well. I don't think it's much help for getting started from a stop, like you mention. Maybe it's a mild help, but you're not talking about driving a 350 horsepower beast with 400 lbs torque. These are low power cars. People have been driving without traction control in the northern US and Canada for decades and have done fine. It's grossly overrated as ZV said.

If you don't want to buy the Toyota because of a loyalty to an american manufacturer then that's too subjective to be discussed here. I personally buy what I think it best and let my dollar speak. All you're doing by buying a saturn is encouraging the bad habits of saturn. Build quality, as ZV said, is going to make that corolla trounce and smack apart the saturn as time goes on.

It's your money of course, but for your own sake don't waste it on a saturn!

 

[Freejack2]

I called them up and cancelled. I'm finding out that these Ions don't have the reliability the SL series had. I'd have to sell my car private party to get anywhere near what it's worth. Add in another $500 for the new tires for the new car and it's not worth it. I'm probably going to wait until the 06's come out and get a deal on some reasonably reliable 05 model or a late model used car.
Thanks for everyones input on this.

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Freejack2
I test drove it today and the center mounted gauges don't bother me. It doesn't seem like all that bad a car.

I looked at the comparison that sniperruff linked to. I built it with the options that are comparable to the Ion 3 and found the Corolla is about exactly $1300 more provided I manage to dicker the dealer down to edmunds suggested tmv price. The Corolla has less hp and less torque, a little less front leg room, 15" wheels, no traction control option, and no mp3 option on the stereo.

The Ion 3 has 0% for 3 years so I'm looking at $438 a month with $500 down. The Corolla has 1.9% for 3 years for a total of $502 a month. This translates to $2304 over 3 years. Admittedly I'd make some of that up with resale value 3 years from now, but cars with 120,000 miles don't have a high resale value to begin with.

With the only thing going for the Corolla is the probably $500 resale value in 3 years, why is the Corolla better than the Ion?

Frankly because it's a toyota. Comparing a toyota to a saturn is almost heresy. You're talking a couple thousand saved over the years perhaps, but what about hassle involved when your saturn's motor dies at 67 miles or the rest of the POS falls apart? As the years go by the toyota will still be a decent car, but the saturn will show its age like a mofo.

Regarding traction control I've only been in a car with it once in the snow (a malibu this christmas) and it sucked. I tested it on snow/ice and frankly couldn't tell a difference with it on or off. Ideally it shouldn't allow the power wheels to slip but in reality it doesn't work that well. I don't think it's much help for getting started from a stop, like you mention. Maybe it's a mild help, but you're not talking about driving a 350 horsepower beast with 400 lbs torque. These are low power cars. People have been driving without traction control in the northern US and Canada for decades and have done fine. It's grossly overrated as ZV said.

If you don't want to buy the Toyota because of a loyalty to an american manufacturer then that's too subjective to be discussed here. I personally buy what I think it best and let my dollar speak. All you're doing by buying a saturn is encouraging the bad habits of saturn. Build quality, as ZV said, is going to make that corolla trounce and smack apart the saturn as time goes on.

It's your money of course, but for your own sake don't waste it on a saturn!