Changed light switches out, now only 1 works correctly :/

[mrblotto]

Good Saturday to you ATGH

Recently (they just finished up yesterday), we had all the floors in the house replaced. Now the wife wants all the receptacles and light switches to be switched out from the regular/old 'light beige' color to bright white.

I've had no trouble with the receptacles so far (the GFI ones I needed assistance on, but are now working correctly), but for some reason I can't get the light switches to operate correctly.

Living Room: There's a 3-switch wallplate that controls the hallway light/living room ceiling fan/living room light

I removed each switch separately, then replaced it with the white switch with the wires in the exact place as the old switch. I thought to myself 'really, how could this get messed up?' Yeah, famous last words alright lol

Anyhow, after all 3 switches were replaced (and the wallplate put back on), I flicked the breaker and went in to test them.
Hallway light - worked - hooray!........or so I thought. Turns out it will only operate if I keep the other hallway light switch (at the other end of the hallway, has not been replaced yet) in the 'On' position. Whereas I used to be able to turn the hallway light On or Off with either switch in any position.

Living Room ceiling fan - works. Goes on and off.......that's all it ever did anyhow lol

Living Room Light - will NOT come on......at all. There's another 3-switch wallplate by the front door (none have been replaced yet), and one of those also controls the light, and it now does nothing either

Of course I dont have the old switches anymore since we've been moving stuff from room to room everything is everywhere and I'm pretty sure I tossed 'em anyways.

I'm pretty much at a loss right now. I spent the last 1/2 hour taking off each of the 3 switches and changing the white and black wires from top---->bottom and bottom----->top. No change. The lights/fan behave the exact same way - as if I never moved the wires around at all. I have since returned them to their original position.

I did notice that instead of a bare copper/green ground wire, there is a 'maroon/burgundy' colored wire instead. What's that all about? House was built in '97

TL;DR
-replaced some switches in living room
-put wires exactly where they were on old switches
-Only fan works correctly - 1 halfway works, and last one doesn't work at all

Thx ATHG

Blah-Toe

 

[stormkroe]

Sounds like you got a your constant power connected to a switch in place of the 'power-out' that should have been there.
For real diagnostics, pull the cover, unscrew the switches, gently pull them out so the wires are all visible and send us a screen shot. This kind of thing is super easy to straighten out to those of us that do it all the time.

 

[Ken g6]

I have one of those.

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/how-to/how-to-repair-three-way-light-switch

 

[Greenman]

Got your wires mixed up. Try a youtube search, that will be easier than me typing out a page of instructions.

 

[mrblotto]

Ok, I think I got a pic up

https://imgur.com/a/pkIyD


I kind of remember when I took out the old switches there was an extra connector one or more......yeah, I know I know.....should've remembered.

While the wife was out, she picked up 3 3-way switches (I think that's what they're called), and they have the extra connector on them. One of them is marked 'common'

 

[Paperdoc]

That photo confirms exactly what the problem was, and how to fix. For starters, you need to understand how 3-way switches are used to control a single light from TWO locations.

1. Power from the breaker panel comes to the FIRST 3-way switch on a black lead that is connected to the COMMON terminal. Then a new cable goes out of this box to the other switch box location. At the first box, the Red and Black leads of the new cable connect to the two other (NOT Common) terminals of the first switch. The WHITE lead of the new cable connects to the WHITE lead from the breaker panel. So now that new cable carries the Neutral feed on the white lead on to the second switch box. Plus it carries a Hot power supply from the output terminals of the first switch on EITHER the Red or the Black leads (depends which way that switch is flipped) on to the second switch box.
2. A the second box, that cable coming in has the Red and Black leads from the first box connected to the two NOT Common terminals of the second switch. Its White lead is connected to the White lead of the cable that goes out of this box to the actual light fixture - that is the Neutral line being sent out to the fixture. The Black lead that goes out to the fixture is connected to the second switch's COMMON terminal. So, this second switch selects which if its two input terminals (red or black wire) is used to pass the Hot power on to the light fixture. The FIRST switch determines which wire ( Red or Black) is used to send power to the second switch. The second switch must then choose the right input wire (Red or Black) to send on the the light fixture in order for the light to actually light up.

So you need to replace the two switches that send power out to the light fixtures with those new 3-way switches, and reconnect the wires the way the original switches were done. That should get all the lights working the way they were. Hint: IF they all work, but one or both are "backwards" - that is, the light turns on when the switch is down, and you want it UP - then just reverse the two power leads on that switch between the two NOT Common terminals. Usually these things are set up so that the light will go ON when BOTH the remote and nearby switches are UP, or BOTH are DOWN, and will stay off if the two switches for this light are in opposite directions.

There is another way to wire up the two 3-way switches when the source of power from the breaker panel is located a bit differently, but we won't worry about that now. You probably don't need to know about that.

 

[mrblotto]

Thanx all for the constructive advice. Will tackle the problem today *crosses fingers*

 

[mrblotto]

OK update time.

I replaced one of the 'standard' switches I had installed with a 3-way switch.........and......same thing :/
Tried a couple other things. About the only goodish news I got is now the porch light actually works, but only when the switch in the garage is in the 'on' position, exactly like the hallway light works now lol

Anyhow, for what it's worth, that's the scoop so far. I'm thinking maybe I have to figure out what wire is the actual 'common' one, but I'm not sure how to figure that out between 2 switches that are 20 feet apart.

 

[Micrornd]

You need both switches to be 3-ways for the circuit to work, not just one.

Pics ?? They might help

 

[mrblotto]

I've uploaded a couple more pics. One is the living room group, the other is the ones at the end of the hallway. I think I've described them ok.

Living Room
https://imgur.com/sbn33bR


End of Hallway
https://imgur.com/x0s4U9D

 

[Micrornd]

From what I can see, if you wire the new hallway switch the same as the old switch (same color wires in the same location), it should work.
If it does not work, then interchange the white and red wires on only the new hallway switch.
If either of the above works, follow the same pattern with the 2 fan switches, with respect to color and location.
If neither of the above works, a better picture of the wires in the box is needed so that we can see what is going where.
AND be sure to have the power off at the boxes when changing wires and don't guess, use a tester.

 

[NetWareHead]

Here is a quick and dirty way to identify the important wires in a 3 way switching circuit.

1. Power down circuit at breaker box. Remove all wires from both 3 way switches. There should be 6 wires in total (not counting the grounds, these can stay connected), leave room between all exposed copper. Verify power is off on all exposed wires.

2. Turn on power at the breaker box. Use a tester to determine which of the 6 wires has power from the breaker box. This is your "panel hot". Attach this panel hot to the common terminal (usually a dark colored screw) on the first three way switch.

3. The other 2 wires can be screwed to the travelers terminals on the first 3 way switch, order is not important. This switch is now considered finished.

4. Flick the first three way switch up and down. This will energize one of the three wires at the second three way switch in the up position and a second separate wire in the down position. Identify these wires.

5. Screw these wires to the travelers terminals on the second three way switch.

6. The wire that did not energize when the first three switch was toggled needs to be screwed to the common terminal on the second three way switch.

7. Test and complete the switch installation.

 

[mrblotto]

Another update:
I got 2 of the 3 wacky switches working correctly. I just ran outa steam to tackle the 3rd one lol.

Turned out one of the 'new' switches I got was bad. It showed a complete/closed circuit no matter what position the switch was in :/

Onward and upward!

Thank you all for the invaluable info too

 

[Scarpozzi]

Another update:
I got 2 of the 3 wacky switches working correctly. I just ran outa steam to tackle the 3rd one lol.

Turned out one of the 'new' switches I got was bad. It showed a complete/closed circuit no matter what position the switch was in :/

Onward and upward!

Thank you all for the invaluable info too

Ahh....bad new switch can really throw you off. I just remember that when you're dealing with a 3-way switch, the hardest thing is to keep the colors straight since all three switches will share a hot wire and the other wires can be ANY color (black/white/red) depending on if they're using 12-2/12-3. Just keep working it until you get it right. Eventually when you do enough of that stuff, you start seeing the circuit in your head.