Challenger price gouging has officially begun

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: dgevert
Oh and speaking of Cobras and on-ramps...this funny story from a friend of mine comes to mind. He drives an '05 STi (stock - he has coilovers now but didn't when this happened.) He's leaving base (Air Force) and the whole time some asshat in a Cobra is riding his tail, revving on him, etc. He's like, whatever. So he leaves base and goes to head home, and the Cobra follows him. So when it's time to get on a highway on-ramp, he lets loose, and the STi's brilliant handling and AWD carries him onto the highway very quickly. Then, he hears it. He looks in his rear view mirror...oops...dumbass Cobra driver tried to keep up...and starts sliding towards the edge of the road. He manages to barely save it...good thing too, because it's a 30 foot embankment where the road ends.

Sounds more like a stupid kid in his daddy's car. He should stick with his Geo before he wrecks a nice car.

The Cobras handling is severely underestimated. Stock on crappy factory rubber they can pull .93gs and a mid 60's mph slalom. From what I dug up briefly on the Evo and Sti thats nearly identical to those two cars.

More challenging to drive correctly due to the massive power output and RWD only? Of course it is. All wheel drive just means even your mom can do it without thinking.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: dgevert

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: dgevert
There's a twisty mountain road not 30 minutes away from where I live. I go up there on weekends to let off some steam. No amount of pure acceleration will ever match the level of excitement that comes from letting a fast car do its thing on a twisty backroad.

But either way, the Lotus isn't a car that's meant to show off on public streets - it's a purebred track car.

Oh and when that Challenger ends up next to the Lotus at a stoplight, the Elise's 0-60 time of 5.8 seconds - stock - will hardly embarass it. And if it's an Exige, well, it'll be the Challenger who slinks away embarassed.

But hey, I guess when a dumbass musclehead like yourself decides he wants to be an asshole on public streets, I guess a Lotus might not be as fast in some of those situations.

the SRT8's do 0-60 in 5 seconds. not bad for 2ton cars

Notice how the above musclehead ignores the entire length of my post only to reply with one thing: a 0-60 time. That's because for said musclehead, any measure of performance of his favorite car that doesn't involve straight-line acceleration is just embarassing.

Kind of like all the 'handling people' only want to talk about how their car can do .01g more in the twisties and completely ignore power because they don't have any?

See my above post on the handling of the Cobra. .93g and mid 60s mph slalom is hardly embarrassing for a 3,700 lb RWD car with a back seat that can also do 12's in the 1/4 and 0-60 in 4.5. Sure it's no Z06 or Enzo, but thats better than 98% of the cars you are likely to encounter on the road in day to day driving to the office.

This Challenger? Probably not so much, if it's anything like the Charger (0.77g and low 60 mph slalom for the R/T). But don't just assume a car can't handle because it has power also. I know it's hard to beleive for the twisties crowd, but it IS possible to make a powerful car handle and a handling car powerful. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Even the SRT-10 quad cab truck can manage .92g and 70 mph slalom stock.

 

[dgevert]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Sounds more like a stupid kid in his daddy's car. He should stick with his Geo before he wrecks a nice car.

The Cobras handling is severely underestimated. Stock on crappy factory rubber they can pull .93gs and a mid 60's mph slalom. From what I dug up briefly on the Evo and Sti thats nearly identical to those two cars.

More challenging to drive correctly due to the massive power output and RWD only? Of course it is. All wheel drive just means even your mom can do it without thinking.

So how about some Nurburging times then? Max g's and slalom speeds don't tell the whole story, now, do they?

In any case, technology that makes a car easier to drive at the limit is a good thing, not a bad one. Most of you muscleheads can't drive worth shit anyway either way.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: dgevert

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: dgevert
There's a twisty mountain road not 30 minutes away from where I live. I go up there on weekends to let off some steam. No amount of pure acceleration will ever match the level of excitement that comes from letting a fast car do its thing on a twisty backroad.

But either way, the Lotus isn't a car that's meant to show off on public streets - it's a purebred track car.

Oh and when that Challenger ends up next to the Lotus at a stoplight, the Elise's 0-60 time of 5.8 seconds - stock - will hardly embarass it. And if it's an Exige, well, it'll be the Challenger who slinks away embarassed.

But hey, I guess when a dumbass musclehead like yourself decides he wants to be an asshole on public streets, I guess a Lotus might not be as fast in some of those situations.

the SRT8's do 0-60 in 5 seconds. not bad for 2ton cars

Notice how the above musclehead ignores the entire length of my post only to reply with one thing: a 0-60 time. That's because for said musclehead, any measure of performance of his favorite car that doesn't involve straight-line acceleration is just embarassing.

Kind of like all the 'handling people' only want to talk about how their car can do .01g more in the twisties and completely ignore power because they don't have any?

See my above post on the handling of the Cobra. .93g and mid 60s mph slalom is hardly embarrassing for a 3,700 lb RWD car with a back seat that can also do 12's in the 1/4 and 0-60 in 4.5. Sure it's no Z06 or Enzo, but thats better than 98% of the cars you are likely to encounter on the road in day to day driving to the office.

This Challenger? Probably not so much, if it's anything like the Charger (0.77g and low 60 mph slalom for the R/T). But don't just assume a car can't handle because it has power also. I know it's hard to beleive for the twisties crowed, but it IS possible to make a powerful car handle and a good handling car powerful. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Even the SRT-10 quad cab truck can manage .92g stock.

Elise can pull over 1g stock and 73.2 mph through the slalom.

 

[dgevert]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Kind of like all the 'handling people' only want to talk about how their car can do .01g more in the twisties and completely ignore power because they don't have any?

See my above post on the handling of the Cobra. .93g and mid 60s mph slalom is hardly embarrassing for a 3,700 lb RWD car with a back seat that can also do 12's in the 1/4 and 0-60 in 4.5. Sure it's no Z06 or Enzo, but thats better than 98% of the cars you are likely to encounter on the road in day to day driving to the office.

This Challenger? Probably not so much, if it's anything like the Charger (0.77g and low 60 mph slalom for the R/T). But don't just assume a car can't handle because it has power also. I know it's hard to beleive for the twisties crowd, but it IS possible to make a powerful car handle and a handling car powerful. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Even the SRT-10 quad cab truck can manage .92g and 70 mph slalom stock.

So 0-60 in 4.8 seconds (Elise) isn't impressive? Or do you need your penis to feel bigger by being able to say you have 400 hp? The concept of power-to-weight ratio mean anything to you? Not all of us who are mocking American muscle drive 150 hp, 80 ft-lb of torque Hondas you know. My WRX is only stage 2 (i.e., downpipe and a tune, and a catback added later) and is at 280 hp, putting down 220 hp/220 ft-lbs of tq to the wheels. It's not going to set any records on the drag strip but it's a good start, and it certainly isn't a pitiful amount. Other cars like the Miata aren't the fastest in the world but I'll be damned if I'd ever choose to drive a Cobra over a Miata on the track.

Except, you guys don't. You know I'm right so don't bullshit me, people buy these big, heavy ass cars to go fast in a straight line. Hell you just spent a whole post spewing this bullshit to justify why it's more important and now you're backpedaling!

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: dgevert

Originally posted by: exdeath
Kind of like all the 'handling people' only want to talk about how their car can do .01g more in the twisties and completely ignore power because they don't have any?

See my above post on the handling of the Cobra. .93g and mid 60s mph slalom is hardly embarrassing for a 3,700 lb RWD car with a back seat that can also do 12's in the 1/4 and 0-60 in 4.5. Sure it's no Z06 or Enzo, but thats better than 98% of the cars you are likely to encounter on the road in day to day driving to the office.

This Challenger? Probably not so much, if it's anything like the Charger (0.77g and low 60 mph slalom for the R/T). But don't just assume a car can't handle because it has power also. I know it's hard to beleive for the twisties crowd, but it IS possible to make a powerful car handle and a handling car powerful. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Even the SRT-10 quad cab truck can manage .92g and 70 mph slalom stock.

So 0-60 in 4.8 seconds (Elise) isn't impressive? Or do you need your penis to feel bigger by being able to say you have 400 hp? The concept of power-to-weight ratio mean anything to you? Not all of us who are mocking American muscle drive 150 hp, 80 ft-lb of torque Hondas you know. My WRX is only stage 2 (i.e., downpipe and a tune, and a catback added later) and is at 280 hp, putting down 220 hp/220 ft-lbs of tq to the wheels. It's not going to set any records on the drag strip but it's a good start, and it certainly isn't a pitiful amount. Other cars like the Miata aren't the fastest in the world but I'll be damned if I'd ever choose to drive a Cobra over a Miata on the track.

Except, you guys don't. You know I'm right so don't bullshit me, people buy these big, heavy ass cars to go fast in a straight line. Hell you just spent a whole post spewing this bullshit to justify why it's more important and now you're backpedaling!

:thumbsup:

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: dgevert

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: dgevert
There's a twisty mountain road not 30 minutes away from where I live. I go up there on weekends to let off some steam. No amount of pure acceleration will ever match the level of excitement that comes from letting a fast car do its thing on a twisty backroad.

But either way, the Lotus isn't a car that's meant to show off on public streets - it's a purebred track car.

Oh and when that Challenger ends up next to the Lotus at a stoplight, the Elise's 0-60 time of 5.8 seconds - stock - will hardly embarass it. And if it's an Exige, well, it'll be the Challenger who slinks away embarassed.

But hey, I guess when a dumbass musclehead like yourself decides he wants to be an asshole on public streets, I guess a Lotus might not be as fast in some of those situations.

the SRT8's do 0-60 in 5 seconds. not bad for 2ton cars

Notice how the above musclehead ignores the entire length of my post only to reply with one thing: a 0-60 time. That's because for said musclehead, any measure of performance of his favorite car that doesn't involve straight-line acceleration is just embarassing.

Kind of like all the 'handling people' only want to talk about how their car can do .01g more in the twisties and completely ignore power because they don't have any?

See my above post on the handling of the Cobra. .93g and mid 60s mph slalom is hardly embarrassing for a 3,700 lb RWD car with a back seat that can also do 12's in the 1/4 and 0-60 in 4.5. Sure it's no Z06 or Enzo, but thats better than 98% of the cars you are likely to encounter on the road in day to day driving to the office.

This Challenger? Probably not so much, if it's anything like the Charger (0.77g and low 60 mph slalom for the R/T). But don't just assume a car can't handle because it has power also. I know it's hard to beleive for the twisties crowed, but it IS possible to make a powerful car handle and a good handling car powerful. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Even the SRT-10 quad cab truck can manage .92g stock.

Elise can pull over 1g stock and 73.2 mph through the slalom.

Not surprised

In fact I'm less impressed. You EXPECT a car like the Elise to do that. You DON'T expect a truck to do .92g and 70 mph hot on the bumper of that Elise.

Which was all I was saying before the thread got completely derailed. Nobody would argue that the Veyron is a poor handling car just because it has 1000 HP and weighs over 4,000 lbs. Yet it does what 1.3g? Don't just assume because a car is heavy or has an abundance in horsepower that it can't corner.

This isn't the 1960's anymore. I expect this Challenger to have IRS and pull performance numbers equivilent to any other car in the same class, import or domestic.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: dgevert

Originally posted by: exdeath
Kind of like all the 'handling people' only want to talk about how their car can do .01g more in the twisties and completely ignore power because they don't have any?

See my above post on the handling of the Cobra. .93g and mid 60s mph slalom is hardly embarrassing for a 3,700 lb RWD car with a back seat that can also do 12's in the 1/4 and 0-60 in 4.5. Sure it's no Z06 or Enzo, but thats better than 98% of the cars you are likely to encounter on the road in day to day driving to the office.

This Challenger? Probably not so much, if it's anything like the Charger (0.77g and low 60 mph slalom for the R/T). But don't just assume a car can't handle because it has power also. I know it's hard to beleive for the twisties crowd, but it IS possible to make a powerful car handle and a handling car powerful. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Even the SRT-10 quad cab truck can manage .92g and 70 mph slalom stock.

So 0-60 in 4.8 seconds (Elise) isn't impressive? Or do you need your penis to feel bigger by being able to say you have 400 hp? The concept of power-to-weight ratio mean anything to you? Not all of us who are mocking American muscle drive 150 hp, 80 ft-lb of torque Hondas you know. My WRX is only stage 2 (i.e., downpipe and a tune, and a catback added later) and is at 280 hp, putting down 220 hp/220 ft-lbs of tq to the wheels. It's not going to set any records on the drag strip but it's a good start, and it certainly isn't a pitiful amount. Other cars like the Miata aren't the fastest in the world but I'll be damned if I'd ever choose to drive a Cobra over a Miata on the track.

Except, you guys don't. You know I'm right so don't bullshit me, people buy these big, heavy ass cars to go fast in a straight line. Hell you just spent a whole post spewing this bullshit to justify why it's more important and now you're backpedaling!

Damn right I got my car to go fast in a straight line. Because up until I had a car with any balls, it was *only* in a straight line that people would contest. People in S2000s, Evos, Boxsters, BMWs, etc love racing in a straight line against a 130 HP Camry. Why do they only whine about handling when they lose to a Cobra? I repeat what I said before, nobody has ever blown passed me and revved in the middle of a left turn going 100 mph.

I'm not backpedaling shit. I only pointed out after the fact, that for all my ranting on straight line power, the very same car can handle great as well as a bonus. Repeat after me: power and handling are not mutually exclusive. I can point out that my car, despite being a straight line monster first and foremost, can also hold it's own in the corners. Can you say the same for that well handling WRX in a straight line? Would you say no to a WRX that not only handled well, but also had 600+ HP can could smoke my car in a straight line? I hope not.

But between the two, straight line power comes into play in day to day driving much more often than handling. I say again, for the average person who buys a STI or Challenger to drive to work, handling is overrated. It doesn't take an Elise to make a left hand turn when the arrow turns green. And I dont live on the Nürburgring. Which by the way is ONE track in the whole wide world, so it doesn't tell the whole story either. Some cars will beat others on one track and lose on another. Have YOU ever driven on this Nürburgring yourself or do you just read about it in Euro magazines and hear about it in Gran Turismo and Ridge Racer on your PS3?

I don't think anyone has run it in an 03 Cobra, presumably because not many were exported. But if it did I'd be confident in placing it next to an M3 or Evo or any other above average coupe or sedan that is better than most but not a supercar. It wouldn't compete with a Z06 or a GT3, but then again neither does a WRX or a M3.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: dgevert
You know I'm right so don't bullshit me, people buy these big, heavy ass cars to go fast in a straight line.

Just like people buy these light nimble well handling cars like STIs and Evos to drive in a straight line... every day to work and school... where they are going to lose to those big, heavy ass straight line cars (as a general rule of thumb, I know those cars can be made fast too... but then why buy a car you praise for handling just to make it go faster in a straight line if straight line isn't important?).

If people buy S2000s, Miatas, and STIs because they want handling and don't care about straight line power, why are they always cranking up the boost and challenging much more powerful cars in a straight line as soon as they get off the dealer lot fresh with temp tags?

Remember I'm talking about every day real world driving. Not the 3 people in the entire city that ACTUALLY take their dedicated race car to an auto-X event once ever 3 years.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: dgevert

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: dgevert
There's a twisty mountain road not 30 minutes away from where I live. I go up there on weekends to let off some steam. No amount of pure acceleration will ever match the level of excitement that comes from letting a fast car do its thing on a twisty backroad.

But either way, the Lotus isn't a car that's meant to show off on public streets - it's a purebred track car.

Oh and when that Challenger ends up next to the Lotus at a stoplight, the Elise's 0-60 time of 5.8 seconds - stock - will hardly embarass it. And if it's an Exige, well, it'll be the Challenger who slinks away embarassed.

But hey, I guess when a dumbass musclehead like yourself decides he wants to be an asshole on public streets, I guess a Lotus might not be as fast in some of those situations.

the SRT8's do 0-60 in 5 seconds. not bad for 2ton cars

Notice how the above musclehead ignores the entire length of my post only to reply with one thing: a 0-60 time. That's because for said musclehead, any measure of performance of his favorite car that doesn't involve straight-line acceleration is just embarassing.

a) the challenger is NOT my favorite car
b) i responded based on your apparent typographical error of the 0-60 time.
c) i never said the SRT8's handling could hold a candle to the elise's
d) the SRT8's are 2ton, 5 seater cars with plenty of cargo and people room. the elise is a 2 seated go-kart that is also street legal
e) straight lines are fun. curves are fun. driving, in general, IS FUN.
f) i don't care which one you like better, i'm simply pointing out that the SRT8's are large muscle car sedans that have good handling for their size and offer practicality as well.

no need to get your panties in a wad. especially since my 0-60 post inlcluded a "" which tends to lighten the mood of a statement.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: dgevert

Originally posted by: exdeath
Kind of like all the 'handling people' only want to talk about how their car can do .01g more in the twisties and completely ignore power because they don't have any?

See my above post on the handling of the Cobra. .93g and mid 60s mph slalom is hardly embarrassing for a 3,700 lb RWD car with a back seat that can also do 12's in the 1/4 and 0-60 in 4.5. Sure it's no Z06 or Enzo, but thats better than 98% of the cars you are likely to encounter on the road in day to day driving to the office.

This Challenger? Probably not so much, if it's anything like the Charger (0.77g and low 60 mph slalom for the R/T). But don't just assume a car can't handle because it has power also. I know it's hard to beleive for the twisties crowd, but it IS possible to make a powerful car handle and a handling car powerful. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. Even the SRT-10 quad cab truck can manage .92g and 70 mph slalom stock.

So 0-60 in 4.8 seconds (Elise) isn't impressive? Or do you need your penis to feel bigger by being able to say you have 400 hp? The concept of power-to-weight ratio mean anything to you? Not all of us who are mocking American muscle drive 150 hp, 80 ft-lb of torque Hondas you know. My WRX is only stage 2 (i.e., downpipe and a tune, and a catback added later) and is at 280 hp, putting down 220 hp/220 ft-lbs of tq to the wheels. It's not going to set any records on the drag strip but it's a good start, and it certainly isn't a pitiful amount. Other cars like the Miata aren't the fastest in the world but I'll be damned if I'd ever choose to drive a Cobra over a Miata on the track.

Except, you guys don't. You know I'm right so don't bullshit me, people buy these big, heavy ass cars to go fast in a straight line. Hell you just spent a whole post spewing this bullshit to justify why it's more important and now you're backpedaling!

Umm your car has 2 power figures??? You kinda have to choose one. I can't say my car has 350hp when my car is only putting down 320 on the dyno.

 

[Viper GTS]

Boy did I stir up a shit-storm. Why the hell are we arguing about an Elise in my Challenger thread?

:roll:

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Umm your car has 2 power figures??? You kinda have to choose one. I can't say my car has 350hp when my car is only putting down 320 on the dyno.

Pretty standard to report both wheel and pre-drivetrain loss figures, what rock have you been under?

Viper GTS

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Boy did I stir up a shit-storm. Why the hell are we arguing about an Elise in my Challenger thread?

:roll:

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Umm your car has 2 power figures??? You kinda have to choose one. I can't say my car has 350hp when my car is only putting down 320 on the dyno.

Pretty standard to report both wheel and pre-drivetrain loss figures, what rock have you been under?

Viper GTS

Sorry Viper GTS...I guess it's inevitable whenever I post in a car related thread. Along with my instant disqualification from commenting on any thread about SUVs, fullsize trucks or American cars. I did try to return this thread to a discussion about the Challenger. :beer:

 

[Viper GTS]

Hey I have nothing against the Elise, I'm sure it's boatloads of fun. I already have a summer car (Mustang GT) and a winter car (Jeep Grand Cherokee), the Elise is far too impractical to justify a 3rd.

Not to mention I probably couldn't drive the damn thing, I took a ride in a Miata the other day & while the passenger seat wasn't too bad for me @ 6'2 the steering wheel would have to go through my legs for me to fit in the driver's seat. The Elise can't be much better.

Viper GTS

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Boy did I stir up a shit-storm. Why the hell are we arguing about an Elise in my Challenger thread?

:roll:

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Umm your car has 2 power figures??? You kinda have to choose one. I can't say my car has 350hp when my car is only putting down 320 on the dyno.

Pretty standard to report both wheel and pre-drivetrain loss figures, what rock have you been under?

Viper GTS

Ahh so when you go to the track, you can correct your times too??? You put down what you put down, you run what times you run. So I do have 350hp even though the dyno said i had around 320. I've been telling people I only have 320, stupid me.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Boy did I stir up a shit-storm. Why the hell are we arguing about an Elise in my Challenger thread?

:roll:

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Umm your car has 2 power figures??? You kinda have to choose one. I can't say my car has 350hp when my car is only putting down 320 on the dyno.

Pretty standard to report both wheel and pre-drivetrain loss figures, what rock have you been under?

Viper GTS

Ahh so when you go to the track, you can correct your times too??? You put down what you put down, you run what times you run. So I do have 350hp even though the dyno said i had around 320. I've been telling people I only have 320, stupid me.

It depends on what type of racing you're doing, heads up or bracket. Bracket drags, you put down the time you think you'll run, then put down the time to you actually ran, and the winner is the one who got closest to their guessed time.

With power figures, you have flywheel hp/tq, this is what the engine puts out when connected to the brake dyno. Also called "Brake horsepower". The other kind is wheel horsepower. That's how much of the power actually makes it to the ground.

Edit: Given an average of 20% driveline loss your car, at 320hp on a dyno (the kind you drive on) should be making about 400 or so brake hp.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Boy did I stir up a shit-storm. Why the hell are we arguing about an Elise in my Challenger thread?

:roll:

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Umm your car has 2 power figures??? You kinda have to choose one. I can't say my car has 350hp when my car is only putting down 320 on the dyno.

Pretty standard to report both wheel and pre-drivetrain loss figures, what rock have you been under?

Viper GTS

Ahh so when you go to the track, you can correct your times too??? You put down what you put down, you run what times you run. So I do have 350hp even though the dyno said i had around 320. I've been telling people I only have 320, stupid me.

It depends on what type of racing you're doing, heads up or bracket. Bracket drags, you put down the time you think you'll run, then put down the time to you actually ran, and the winner is the one who got closest to their guessed time.

With power figures, you have flywheel hp/tq, this is what the engine puts out when connected to the brake dyno. Also called "Brake horsepower". The other kind is wheel horsepower. That's how much of the power actually makes it to the ground.

Edit: Given an average of 20% driveline loss your car, at 320hp on a dyno (the kind you drive on) should be making about 400 or so brake hp.

I know I know it's just that when you do aftermarket parts you only hear WHP cause unless you put your engine on the dyno by itself, you really can't state engine hp

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

I know I know it's just that when you do aftermarket parts you only hear WHP cause unless you put your engine on the dyno by itself, you really can't state engine hp

It's because whp is the easiest way to measure it. You can sorta estimate your BHP by doing some math like I did above to come up with 400hp for your car.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: zerocool84

I know I know it's just that when you do aftermarket parts you only hear WHP cause unless you put your engine on the dyno by itself, you really can't state engine hp

It's because whp is the easiest way to measure it. You can sorta estimate your BHP by doing some math like I did above to come up with 400hp for your car.

It only seems like people that don't have a lot of power like to state engine or bhp rather than whp which makes no sense. Who cares what the engine is putting out, what matters is what's getting to the wheels.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: zerocool84

I know I know it's just that when you do aftermarket parts you only hear WHP cause unless you put your engine on the dyno by itself, you really can't state engine hp

It's because whp is the easiest way to measure it. You can sorta estimate your BHP by doing some math like I did above to come up with 400hp for your car.

It only seems like people that don't have a lot of power like to state engine or bhp rather than whp which makes no sense. Who cares what the engine is putting out, what matters is what's getting to the wheels.

Except that every manufacturer rates their cars in bhp. So to do any kind of comparison between a stock vehicle and a non-stock you either have to have the stock available for dyno (unlikely) OR convert the non-stock whp to bhp.

It's a simple fact of life that we have to deal with both, & converting between them (roughly, at least) is not rocket science.

Viper GTS

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Hey I have nothing against the Elise, I'm sure it's boatloads of fun. I already have a summer car (Mustang GT) and a winter car (Jeep Grand Cherokee), the Elise is far too impractical to justify a 3rd.

Not to mention I probably couldn't drive the damn thing, I took a ride in a Miata the other day & while the passenger seat wasn't too bad for me @ 6'2 the steering wheel would have to go through my legs for me to fit in the driver's seat. The Elise can't be much better.

Viper GTS

I tried to climb... errr crawl/fold into an Elise one time. Didn't make it. I crawled back out and rolled onto the pavement to get back out.

Cool car though, for very specific uses, assuming you can fit in it. There is no graceful way the get out of it.

 

[GoatMonkey]

The new Challenger just isn't worth the money they're charging for it, even at MSRP, at least not to me. Obviously, they will sell, to someone.

A big part of the appeal of a muscle car is the bang for the buck. That just isn't there in this car. Same goes for the GT500, just not worth it for that price.

The new Camaro will be a much better value if they price it right. The Mustang is going to need more power very soon to keep its bang for the buck high. Especially considering that there's going to be a Hyundai with similar power/weight ratio soon (not quite as much torque, but still you gotta be able to beat a Hyundai solidly, stock vs. stock, just out of national pride).

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Hey I have nothing against the Elise, I'm sure it's boatloads of fun. I already have a summer car (Mustang GT) and a winter car (Jeep Grand Cherokee), the Elise is far too impractical to justify a 3rd.

Not to mention I probably couldn't drive the damn thing, I took a ride in a Miata the other day & while the passenger seat wasn't too bad for me @ 6'2 the steering wheel would have to go through my legs for me to fit in the driver's seat. The Elise can't be much better.

Viper GTS

Actually, the Elise has quite a bit of headroom and your legs are pretty much straight out in front of you as you are sitting on the floor. I am 5'11" and my friend who rode in it with me is 6'4". Once inside he had plenty of room. It's getting in and out that's the trick.

There is a video I have linked at work. I'll post it when I get there later on.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Hey I have nothing against the Elise, I'm sure it's boatloads of fun. I already have a summer car (Mustang GT) and a winter car (Jeep Grand Cherokee), the Elise is far too impractical to justify a 3rd.

Not to mention I probably couldn't drive the damn thing, I took a ride in a Miata the other day & while the passenger seat wasn't too bad for me @ 6'2 the steering wheel would have to go through my legs for me to fit in the driver's seat. The Elise can't be much better.

Viper GTS

Actually, the Elise has quite a bit of headroom and your legs are pretty much straight out in front of you as you are sitting on the floor. I am 5'11" and my friend who rode in it with me is 6'4". Once inside he had plenty of room. It's getting in and out that's the trick.

There is a video I have linked at work. I'll post it when I get there later on.

Yeah, the big problem is that you cannot use the windshield frame as a leverage point or it will pretty much fold in on you since it's just fiberglass.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Boy did I stir up a shit-storm. Why the hell are we arguing about an Elise in my Challenger thread?

:roll:

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Umm your car has 2 power figures??? You kinda have to choose one. I can't say my car has 350hp when my car is only putting down 320 on the dyno.

Pretty standard to report both wheel and pre-drivetrain loss figures, what rock have you been under?

Viper GTS

Because inevitably, any time someone brings up a domestic that weighs more than 2 ounces and has more than 10 HP (or is simply faster than their car), someone is going to instantly bring up handling and start comparing dedicated track go-carts that do 10g's to a daily driving full size coupes/sedans/minivans/buses and complain that a $36,000 coupe/sedan/minivan/bus driving in straight lines on straight American roads can't hang with a Enzo or Veyron on the Nürburgring on the commute to work every morning. :roll:

Or they just feel the need to find some minute weakness or discredit a more powerful car than they can afford, compare it to a better handling car they also can't afford, to justify in their mind that it isn't that good anyway, in order to minimize their loss of not being able to have it. I guarantee you everyone that compares a $30k Mustang or Challengers handling to a <insert $100,000+ supercar of choice> is driving a Geo or Civic that can't even compete with the Mustang they are bashing, much less the <insert $100,000+ supercar of choice> they compare everything else too. Hypocrisy at it's finest, and it happens in every car thread.

I personally wouldn't own any minivan that can't pull 1.2g's skid pad, crappy Chryslers and their crappy handling! Doesn't everyone slalom their PT Cruiser through the Nürburgring every day? :roll: