Challenger performance number Dodge doesn't want you to know about

[Salvador]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: vizkiz

Originally posted by: Excelsior
I still don't understand why everyone talks about the extra weight as if it is a bad thing. If the car is good, it is good, regardless of how much it weighs.

For the most part, more weight = slower car. And for something that is supposed to be a performance car, it should at least be under 4k lbs. But hey, this is coming from a Corvette fan who thinks the Corvette is overweight at 3280lbs.

You make a decent point, but that is also why I said " If the car is good, it is good regardless of how much it weighs".

It should/does perform well, does it not? So who cares how much it weighs...

I do!!! Weight is everything in a performance car. It not only makes the car slower and makes it so you have to have a lot of power to compensate for it, it usually handles like a pig and doesn't stop as well. It's just no fun to drive.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Salvador

Originally posted by: SilverTorch

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: BriGy86
i know nothing about cars

good or bad?

im guessing bad?

That's heavy.

Corvette weighs about 3000lbs.

Corvette is all cabonfiber body, thats why its so light.

1/2 a ton difference ... weird, wtf did they pack into it

The new Z06 is about 3,150 and the regular Coupe is about 100 lbs more. The Z06 was lightened using carbon fiber front fenders and hood as well as a magnesium roof structure.

If this pig ends up weighing two tons, they are going to disappoint a lot of potential buyers. They'll just go buy the Mustang instead at 500 -600 lbs less.

BTW.. Most cars this size weigh about 3,500 lbs. They have to make a real effort to get the weight down to anywhere near 3,000 lbs. 4,000 lbs is what a large sedan like the Charger and 300C weigh. Not bad for a big sedan, but it sucks for a sports coupe.

But, aren't all three built on the same underpinnings?
I expected it to weigh close to this. Most reviews of the Charger have claimed it drives like a lighter car. I would expect the Challenger would be the same. I also doubt 99% of the driving public would ever push the car to the point to where the differences would be apparent.

I'll take a Z06.

 

[Kenazo]

Challenger... so sweet..... and fat...... but who gives a rat's ass? It makes no difference to 95% of the drivers what the car actually weighs.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: vizkiz

Originally posted by: Excelsior
I still don't understand why everyone talks about the extra weight as if it is a bad thing. If the car is good, it is good, regardless of how much it weighs.

For the most part, more weight = slower car. And for something that is supposed to be a performance car, it should at least be under 4k lbs. But hey, this is coming from a Corvette fan who thinks the Corvette is overweight at 3280lbs.

You make a decent point, but that is also why I said " If the car is good, it is good regardless of how much it weighs".

It should/does perform well, does it not? So who cares how much it weighs...

Less weight is a good thing. Adding power will make you go faster in a straight line, and will reduce fuel efficiency. Reducing weight by the same percentage lets you go faster in a straight line, around corners, and reduces fuel use. Less weight is win-win. More weight is lose-lose-lose-lose.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: Kenazo
Challenger... so sweet..... and fat...... but who gives a rat's ass? It makes no difference to 95% of the drivers what the car actually weighs.

people who wants better gas milage, brake/tire life, and people who wants to control their cars in emergency situations.

do you want better gas milage?

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: vizkiz

Originally posted by: Excelsior
I still don't understand why everyone talks about the extra weight as if it is a bad thing. If the car is good, it is good, regardless of how much it weighs.

For the most part, more weight = slower car. And for something that is supposed to be a performance car, it should at least be under 4k lbs. But hey, this is coming from a Corvette fan who thinks the Corvette is overweight at 3280lbs.

You make a decent point, but that is also why I said " If the car is good, it is good regardless of how much it weighs".

It should/does perform well, does it not? So who cares how much it weighs...

Less weight is a good thing. Adding power will make you go faster in a straight line, and will reduce fuel efficiency. Reducing weight by the same percentage lets you go faster in a straight line, around corners, and reduces fuel use. Less weight is win-win. More weight is lose-lose-lose-lose.

You guys don't understand. I realize all of this, but I am trying to say that if it performs well enough despite its weight, then forget about it. All of this "If it was 700lbs lighter then it would accelerate better, be more fuel efficient, handl better.." is not going to change the fact that it is heavy.

Either the car is good, or it isn't.

 

[jocycliff]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Tylanner
id guess that weight would provide better survivability in a head on head collision with another vehicle.

that fact would be more benificial to an owner than the fact that they wouldnt be able to maneuver as fast

Not necessarily.

Your article is flawed. It shows pictures of a head on colission with an immovable object. While yes the mini did extremly well and the F150 bad, if the F150 hit the mini at 40 mph head on. The mini would be squashed. I would think at the very least the F150 would be over the hood and into the windshield.

 

[RiDE]

Originally posted by: jocycliff

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Tylanner
id guess that weight would provide better survivability in a head on head collision with another vehicle.

that fact would be more benificial to an owner than the fact that they wouldnt be able to maneuver as fast

Not necessarily.

Your article is flawed. It shows pictures of a head on colission with an immovable object. While yes the mini did extremly well and the F150 bad, if the F150 hit the mini at 40 mph head on. The mini would be squashed. I would think at the very least the F150 would be over the hood and into the windshield.

His point was heavier vehicles aren't necessarily safer. Your point on the other hand has more to do with the size of the vehicle.

 

[Azelrok]

Wow someone actually brought this up. Everyone I hear is saying how good of a performer the new Challenger is gonna be. But its gonna be just as fast as a mustang GT.

Challenger - 345hp 4000 lb. - Mid 13 second car ? (No real world results yet)

Mustang GT - 300hp 3500 lb. - Mid / High 13 second car (many popular mag's support this)

GTO 400hp 3800 lb. - mid / high 13 second car (road and track and other mag's)

Challenger looks good (matter of a opinion) but its not gonna crush any of its competition. The heavier weight will decrease all aspects of performance, as many have said here.

Same with the new camaro. That thing looks heavy, although is the zeta platform aluminum? (I doubt it but never looked it up) The LS2 engine is aluminum which helps alot, compared to the iron block hemi. But the camaro is gonna have a IRS. It just seems to me that the camaro will just be a GTO with around a 32k price tag. Again its priced out of its competition (the mustang and challenger). Worse yet the camaro wont be availible till around 2009 and thats if they ok production. By then a new model of the mustang will be out and hp upped, but I doubt it'll be anywhere near the LS2 engine. Ford didnt mine losing the HP war, as long as it stayed ahead in the sales war.

Heck people can say, well for 7k more over a mustang you get much better perfmance, well then I guess for 7k more then a Camaro, you can get a GT500 and get even better performance.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: RiDE

Originally posted by: jocycliff

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Tylanner
id guess that weight would provide better survivability in a head on head collision with another vehicle.

that fact would be more benificial to an owner than the fact that they wouldnt be able to maneuver as fast

Not necessarily.

Your article is flawed. It shows pictures of a head on colission with an immovable object. While yes the mini did extremly well and the F150 bad, if the F150 hit the mini at 40 mph head on. The mini would be squashed. I would think at the very least the F150 would be over the hood and into the windshield.

His point was heavier vehicles aren't necessarily safer. Your point on the other hand has more to do with the size of the vehicle.

and height. the F150 will swallow the mini, but that doesn't mean it makes the driver of the F150 safer.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: BriGy86
i know nothing about cars

good or bad?

im guessing bad?

That's heavy.

Corvette weighs about 3000lbs.

3,200 pounds. And that's an extreme lightweight. A G35 weighs in at about 3,500 pounds. A GTO weighs 3,700 pounds. A Mustang GT is about 3,500 pounds.

A Crown Vic weighs just over 4,000 pounds. Any modern car the Challenger's size will weigh in at 4,000 pounds, minimum. The Challenger's not heavy, not for the class of car it is anyway.

ZV

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: jocycliff

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Tylanner
id guess that weight would provide better survivability in a head on head collision with another vehicle.

that fact would be more benificial to an owner than the fact that they wouldnt be able to maneuver as fast

Not necessarily.

Your article is flawed. It shows pictures of a head on colission with an immovable object. While yes the mini did extremly well and the F150 bad, if the F150 hit the mini at 40 mph head on. The mini would be squashed. I would think at the very least the F150 would be over the hood and into the windshield.

It's pretty clear you didn't read his post in its entirety or the link. Many if not most accidents are single vehicle which means you want to be in the vehicle that protects the occupants well. Further, I do believe the Feds are going to issue new regs (if they haven't already) that reduces the likelihood of large vehicles riding over smaller ones in collisions.

In sum, the Mini vs F150 crash is far less likely than either vehicle vs a fixed object or F150 in a rollover . . . which means the safer vehicle is the Mini.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: Azelrok
Wow someone actually brought this up. Everyone I hear is saying how good of a performer the new Challenger is gonna be. But its gonna be just as fast as a mustang GT.

Challenger - 345hp 4000 lb. - Mid 13 second car ? (No real world results yet)

Mustang GT - 300hp 3500 lb. - Mid / High 13 second car (many popular mag's support this)

GTO 400hp 3800 lb. - mid / high 13 second car (road and track and other mag's)

Challenger looks good (matter of a opinion) but its not gonna crush any of its competition. The heavier weight will decrease all aspects of performance, as many have said here.

Same with the new camaro. That thing looks heavy, although is the zeta platform aluminum? (I doubt it but never looked it up) The LS2 engine is aluminum which helps alot, compared to the iron block hemi. But the camaro is gonna have a IRS. It just seems to me that the camaro will just be a GTO with around a 32k price tag. Again its priced out of its competition (the mustang and challenger). Worse yet the camaro wont be availible till around 2009 and thats if they ok production. By then a new model of the mustang will be out and hp upped, but I doubt it'll be anywhere near the LS2 engine. Ford didnt mine losing the HP war, as long as it stayed ahead in the sales war.

Heck people can say, well for 7k more over a mustang you get much better perfmance, well then I guess for 7k more then a Camaro, you can get a GT500 and get even better performance.

base V6 camaro should be costing about 19K per Lutz. figure the V8 version will be about 25K and then youll get an SS the year after that prolly near 29k

 

[Zebo]

Some people only like to see negatives - There's a lot of benefits to mass too.

1. Barrier loading for road noise - noise transmission is given by the following equation: R=20 log(fm)-47dB Notice m, which is mass.
2. Accidents with other cars and SUV's both head on and broad side. I've done tons of collision math here. It's not pretty for lighter vechiles.
3. Road grip of tires. My dads 06 vette will throw you in a circle if you punch it in first easily breaking loose even with it's huge 14" wide tired (I've done it😀) an extra 1000 lbs would keep it on the pavement.

etc etc etc

There are also negatives which many have already highlighted...fuel mileage- body roll, road handling G's.. etc etc etc

It's just a different type car than a vette is all.

 

[vizkiz]

Originally posted by: Zebo
3. Road grip of tires. My dads 06 vette will throw you in a circle if you punch it in first easily breaking loose even with it's huge 14" wide tired (I've done it😀) an extra 1000 lbs would keep it on the pavement.

Does it have the stock wheels on it? If so, the rear tires are only 11.25" for the base and 12.75" for the Z.

 

[vizkiz]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
3,200 pounds. And that's an extreme lightweight. A G35 weighs in at about 3,500 pounds. A GTO weighs 3,700 pounds. A Mustang GT is about 3,500 pounds.

A Crown Vic weighs just over 4,000 pounds. Any modern car the Challenger's size will weigh in at 4,000 pounds, minimum. The Challenger's not heavy, not for the class of car it is anyway.

ZV

Actually, the Challenger would be in the same category as the Mustang, GTO, G35 coupe. It is a 2-door four seater. That means it should be 3500-3700lbs, according to the other cars you mentioned in that category.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: jocycliff

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Tylanner
id guess that weight would provide better survivability in a head on head collision with another vehicle.

that fact would be more benificial to an owner than the fact that they wouldnt be able to maneuver as fast

Not necessarily.

Your article is flawed. It shows pictures of a head on colission with an immovable object. While yes the mini did extremly well and the F150 bad, if the F150 hit the mini at 40 mph head on. The mini would be squashed. I would think at the very least the F150 would be over the hood and into the windshield.

It's pretty clear you didn't read his post in its entirety or the link. Many if not most accidents are single vehicle which means you want to be in the vehicle that protects the occupants well. Further, I do believe the Feds are going to issue new regs (if they haven't already) that reduces the likelihood of large vehicles riding over smaller ones in collisions.

In sum, the Mini vs F150 crash is far less likely than either vehicle vs a fixed object or F150 in a rollover . . . which means the safer vehicle is the Mini.

Bonus to someone who read the article. The only accident where an SUV/truck would have the potential to be safer is in an accident where the SUV hits a much smaller vehicle. Predictably this is what the "SUV=Safe" crowd focuses on, suggesting that "You get in a Mini, and I'll hit you an an F-150 and we'll see who wins", but that kind of accident is actually in the minority for fatal accidents. Your giant vehicle may survive hitting my Mini (well, my Mazda 3, I don't own a Mini), but the kind of accidents you are far more likely to get in make your vehicle far less safe than my 3.

 

[MustangSVT]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: FleshLight

Originally posted by: BriGy86
i know nothing about cars

good or bad?

im guessing bad?

It's pretty good. The car is fairly lightweight, almost on par with an Elise.

Um, the Elise weighs less than half that.

your sarcasm meter is broken, get it fixed. :roll:

 

[vizkiz]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: jocycliff

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Tylanner
id guess that weight would provide better survivability in a head on head collision with another vehicle.

that fact would be more benificial to an owner than the fact that they wouldnt be able to maneuver as fast

Not necessarily.

Your article is flawed. It shows pictures of a head on colission with an immovable object. While yes the mini did extremly well and the F150 bad, if the F150 hit the mini at 40 mph head on. The mini would be squashed. I would think at the very least the F150 would be over the hood and into the windshield.

It's pretty clear you didn't read his post in its entirety or the link. Many if not most accidents are single vehicle which means you want to be in the vehicle that protects the occupants well. Further, I do believe the Feds are going to issue new regs (if they haven't already) that reduces the likelihood of large vehicles riding over smaller ones in collisions.

In sum, the Mini vs F150 crash is far less likely than either vehicle vs a fixed object or F150 in a rollover . . . which means the safer vehicle is the Mini.

Bonus to someone who read the article. The only accident where an SUV/truck would have the potential to be safer is in an accident where the SUV hits a much smaller vehicle. Predictably this is what the "SUV=Safe" crowd focuses on, suggesting that "You get in a Mini, and I'll hit you an an F-150 and we'll see who wins", but that kind of accident is actually in the minority for fatal accidents. Your giant vehicle may survive hitting my Mini (well, my Mazda 3, I don't own a Mini), but the kind of accidents you are far more likely to get in make your vehicle far less safe than my 3.

But from what I've seen, most SUV accidents do involve more than one vehicle. Most of the time, it is the retard SUV driver not paying attention or following too close and rearending another vehicle. SUV drivers (not all of them, just most) need to learn how far their vehicle takes to stop and not follow closely. I see people in them swerving in and out of lanes like they were in a go-kart at 70+mph. And that's not just on the highway, they do it on our local 30, 40, and 50mph roads too, at 20 over the limit. Sure, I go 20 over the limit too, but my car also takes a lot less distance to stop from those speeds than their SUV does.

 

[AmericanRebel]

Originally posted by: vizkiz

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
3,200 pounds. And that's an extreme lightweight. A G35 weighs in at about 3,500 pounds. A GTO weighs 3,700 pounds. A Mustang GT is about 3,500 pounds.

A Crown Vic weighs just over 4,000 pounds. Any modern car the Challenger's size will weigh in at 4,000 pounds, minimum. The Challenger's not heavy, not for the class of car it is anyway.

ZV

Actually, the Challenger would be in the same category as the Mustang, GTO, G35 coupe. It is a 2-door four seater. That means it should be 3500-3700lbs, according to the other cars you mentioned in that category.

But, its built on the Charger/ 300C platform which is where the weight comes from.

 

[vizkiz]

Originally posted by: AmericanRebel

Originally posted by: vizkiz

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
3,200 pounds. And that's an extreme lightweight. A G35 weighs in at about 3,500 pounds. A GTO weighs 3,700 pounds. A Mustang GT is about 3,500 pounds.

A Crown Vic weighs just over 4,000 pounds. Any modern car the Challenger's size will weigh in at 4,000 pounds, minimum. The Challenger's not heavy, not for the class of car it is anyway.

ZV

Actually, the Challenger would be in the same category as the Mustang, GTO, G35 coupe. It is a 2-door four seater. That means it should be 3500-3700lbs, according to the other cars you mentioned in that category.

But, its built on the Charger/ 300C platform which is where the weight comes from.

I understand that, but from a market standpoint, it will be competing with two door four seaters, so that is what you must compare it to.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: vizkiz

Originally posted by: Zebo
3. Road grip of tires. My dads 06 vette will throw you in a circle if you punch it in first easily breaking loose even with it's huge 14" wide tired (I've done it😀) an extra 1000 lbs would keep it on the pavement.

Does it have the stock wheels on it? If so, the rear tires are only 11.25" for the base and 12.75" for the Z.

Is' that it? I just glanced at the size and they look a hell of a lot bigger than that 14" looked about right. But its really immaterial to the point that more mass increases coefficient of friction of tires.

 

[Zebo]

Many if not most accidents are single vehicle which means you want to be in the vehicle that protects the occupants well

BS on that front too- Id rather hit a telephone pole in a freightliner which has a one star crash test than an accord with it's five stars. I doubt you even notice hitting it if it wernt for the noise of cutting a telephone pole in half in the freightliner. In Accord? most liky DOA.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: AdamK47 3DS

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
you realize that the 300 SRT-8 is something like 4400lbs and does 0-60 in 5.5?

And a LS1 Z28 has 80 less hp with 3400 lbs and does 0-60 in 5.1

Ls1 is an underated engine. Lets not look at what it is rated at and be like OMG it has so much less power and is still faster. The truth is the LS1 is a very capable stock engine.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: vizkiz

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
3,200 pounds. And that's an extreme lightweight. A G35 weighs in at about 3,500 pounds. A GTO weighs 3,700 pounds. A Mustang GT is about 3,500 pounds.

A Crown Vic weighs just over 4,000 pounds. Any modern car the Challenger's size will weigh in at 4,000 pounds, minimum. The Challenger's not heavy, not for the class of car it is anyway.

ZV

Actually, the Challenger would be in the same category as the Mustang, GTO, G35 coupe. It is a 2-door four seater. That means it should be 3500-3700lbs, according to the other cars you mentioned in that category.

The Challenger is the same size as the Charger. It's a full-size five-seater platform, not a 2+2 platform like the Mustang and the GTO. The Challenger will be larger than the Mustang or the GTO.

ZV