Let me know if you get the Prodigy hack to work. I tried to do it this morning and didn't have any luck.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,225
- 126
I think that you are slightly confused. (Or I am - one of us at least.)
There is a difference between simple playback of pre-recorded/encoded Dolby Digital content, vs. real-time live encoding. The latter was the reason for the fanboyism about the SoundStorm. Supposedly, Intel's new audio solution will also do real-time DD encoding, probably in software on the host CPU. I wasn't aware that the Via Envy24 was capable of this real-time encoding feature. Are you saying that it is capable?
Also, you seem to be confusing digital output, with "Dolby Digital"-encoded digital output.
Yes, Creative's solution uses three seperate parallel PCM-encoded digital output channels. I don't own a 7.1 outboard reciever, but surely there is some standard for the 7.1 digital data, besides DD (interleaved PCM maybe?). Otherwise, how would the reciever be able to handle other digital formats, like DTS EX or whatever their 8-channel rather than 6-channel format is?
I had a Vortex2 card back in the day, and it worked great, but it was limited to playback of realtime PCM-encoded digital output, or pre-recorded AC3 or DTS-encoded passthrough digital output.
I'm not even totally sure that realtime DD-encoding is such a great idea, in some cases, because of the compression used. Plus, isn't DD a 5.1 standard? How is that being extended to 7.1 here, if what you say is true, that the Envy24 can do realtime DD multi-channel encoding?
I'm not saying your wrong, only that this is news to me, and I want to learn the truth about all of this.
Just a heads up, I've encountered a bug with the latest drivers from viaarena. It screws up in XP with fast user switching and the control panel applet crashes. Works fine as long as fast user switching is disabled.
Other than that, and the volume bug, they're fine.
I have mine hooked up through 2-ch wolfson dac to my z340's and it sounds _excellent_.
Other than that, and the volume bug, they're fine.
I have mine hooked up through 2-ch wolfson dac to my z340's and it sounds _excellent_.
No, he's wrong, you are correct.
As of right now, the ONLY solution on the market that can encode Dolby Digital signal from non-Dolby Digital source (say, games) is the SoundStorm solution from nVidia
Now, supposedly, such capability is possible with Intel's "Azalia" High Definition Audio...which isn't really out yet. Also, the C-Media CMI-8768 chip should be capable of doing this...and that IS on the market....but the drivers don't support it yet (the option to enable Dolby Digital Encoding is greyed out).
For those who want to do more reading on the topic, Google is your friend, and the latest buzzword for the technology is no longer "Digital Interactive Content Encoding" but is now "Dolby Digital Live".
The only thing the Envy24 can do is the same thing the Audigy can, and the Hercules GameTheater could, and blahblahblah...it has an optical out because it can 'pass through' pre-encoded content. Like, say, from a DVD. It can't actually encode anything itself.
On a side note, if you have an old SB Live or Audigy1, try the kX driver. It lets you swap the front outputs to the rear, which uses a higher quality CODEC, as well as give you dramatically lower latency.
Try them before you judge your old card.
http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/index.php?skip=1
Try them before you judge your old card.
http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/index.php?skip=1
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,225
- 126
Well, that's what I was wondering. But in light of these two comments:
That would seem to imply that one would intend to flash these cards, and only use the digital out, not the analog, right? Why would you do that, if you could already play back audio using 2-channel digital output?
I guess this has really made me a bit curious. Bottom line - can this card play back "live" output, using more than just two digital channels, to an external reciever? Whether it is using DD-encoding or not? (In fact, raw PCM would sound better, due to lack of compression.)
Hmmm....not QUITE clear on what they mean...
First off, you'd never use a DAC if you were using the digital-out. The signal is digital within the card to begin with, the DAC (or Digital to Analog Converter) is only used for analog output (regular speakers).
If you want "surround" output, the only option on this card is analog outputs, so it needs to use the DACs.
If you just want two-channel output, you could ideally output it one of two ways: through the Digital output (PCM encoded) for digital output or through the analog ports 7&8 (Wolfson chip, 24-bit conversion) for analog output.
The only thing I can possibly think of a BIOS flash doing is changing how it encodes PCM? But, that REALLY doesn't make much sense.
In any case, this isn't an ability unique to the Envy24 - again, this is the same thing an Audigy, GameTheaterXP, Fortissimo, etc can do.
The only realy 'gimmick' the Envy24 has going for it is that - again, just using the Wolfson chip - it can output 2-channel audio with exactly the same quality as the Audigy2 ZS can, for a small fraction of the price.
First off, you'd never use a DAC if you were using the digital-out. The signal is digital within the card to begin with, the DAC (or Digital to Analog Converter) is only used for analog output (regular speakers).
If you want "surround" output, the only option on this card is analog outputs, so it needs to use the DACs.
If you just want two-channel output, you could ideally output it one of two ways: through the Digital output (PCM encoded) for digital output or through the analog ports 7&8 (Wolfson chip, 24-bit conversion) for analog output.
The only thing I can possibly think of a BIOS flash doing is changing how it encodes PCM? But, that REALLY doesn't make much sense.
In any case, this isn't an ability unique to the Envy24 - again, this is the same thing an Audigy, GameTheaterXP, Fortissimo, etc can do.
The only realy 'gimmick' the Envy24 has going for it is that - again, just using the Wolfson chip - it can output 2-channel audio with exactly the same quality as the Audigy2 ZS can, for a small fraction of the price.
The original VIA/ICEnsemble Envy24 has a built-in DSP for hardware processing of DS, 3D, and audio effects (e.g. EAX). Its not very powerful, but its hands-down better than no built-in DSP and could have helped bridge that gap between Audigy2 in CPU utilization for gaming.
I don't know why VIA ditched the DSP engine on subsequent Envy versions. Hopefully they see that CPU utilization is consistently cited as the weak link in reviews against Audigy2 and VIA is smart enough to put a DSP unit back in.
I don't know why VIA ditched the DSP engine on subsequent Envy versions. Hopefully they see that CPU utilization is consistently cited as the weak link in reviews against Audigy2 and VIA is smart enough to put a DSP unit back in.
konakona
Diamond Member
- May 6, 2004
- 6,285
- 1
- 0
the DAC we are talkikng about here is a standalone dac like benchmark DAC or the famous aos piccolo. speakers are analog devices and therefore require a DAC of certain kind to reproduce real world sinusodial signals. the problem is most of these quasi-quality multimedia speakers with digitial input have a crappy DAC built in, easily bested by good soundcards from EMU and RME. so people who flash the av-710 are those who are fortunate enough to be able to afford more expensive DACs.
well thats the problem. again, many ATOT users seem to value multimedia speakers like klipsch promedia line very highly, but on these inferior systems you wont be able to tell noticeable difference. headphone users however report an immidiate, very noticeable increase in detail, less mudiness and more tonally balanced sound. granted, the difference between two cards isnt as big of an improvement compared to upgrading to emu-1212m - a true quantam leap.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,225
- 126
Ok, thanks. That is basically what I originally thought.
I still don't quite get why that would be of use. I assume that anyone that is using the digital-out port, is using some sort of what I call an "outboard receiver", that takes the digital signal, decodes it, runs it through whatever multi-channel amp/equalizer, and pipes it out to multiple analog speaker connections. (I'm not familiar with anything called "benchmark DAC", I thought that might be some sort of sound-card quality test at first, but I'm assuming it must be a brand name.)
So, if this card can't digitally-encode multi-channel "live" content, but only "live" stereo PCM or pass-through pre-encoded digital multi-channel content, how is this card any different at all from any other card that has a digital-out port, if you're not planning on using the card's DACs/analog outputs? I just can't see getting this card for use with digital outputs at all, other than it is on the cheaper scale of sound cards in general.
Many sound cards do unnecessary resampling on digital PCM streams, which can hurt sound quality. With the appropriate drivers, this one does not.
Which is what I have been looking for....a card with quality analog output for a 2.1 setup that does NOT cost upwards of $60+
This is from AVS Forums thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=364771>>Envy24HT-S - The Definitive Source<< credit to darklordjames
What 3D sound APIs do these cards support?
Through the Sensaura driver included with Envy24 cards, they support A3D, EAX 1.0 and 2.0, and all the other random audio APIs that everything supports. On a side note, Sensaura was recently purchased by Creative Labs. As such, it is possible that Sensaura availability will dissappear from the world, but more likely Creative will continue to liscense it out. That way they make money on every soundcard even if they aren't the ones that are selling them. It is also possible that Sensaura will gain EAX 3.0 and 4.0 support later since it is the daughter company of Creative (the EAX guys).
Why should I get an VIA Envy24HT/HT-S instead of a Creative Labs Audigy 2?
There are several points to cover, but the main ones are as follows.
How important is gaming to you? The Audigy line of cards are generally considered to be better gamer's cards. They support the newer EAX versions 3.0 and 4.0, something that can't be found anywhere else at the momment. They are also essentially the reference card that developers use when making a game, so how the game sounds on an Audigy is pretty certain to be how it was intended to be heard. That isn't to say that the Envy24 cards aren't good at gaming. I personally enjoy the gaming experience on my Envy24HT-S more than I did on the Soundblaster Live it replaced. Through the Sensaura driver that they ship with, the Envy24 cards support all the regular gaming audio APIs, as well as Creative's EAX 1.0 and 2.0. Any half-way decent developer is going to make sure that their game works well on a Sensaura enabled card (pretty much everything that isn't Creative) since Sensaura based cards are a huge percentage of the market. The Audigy is a bit ahead of the Envy24 on gaming, but not by much. Point to the Audigy.
Is Bit-Perfect playback important to you? This is an area where the Envy24 based solutions destroy the Audigy line. Audigy cards are going to resample your CD Audio (and any 44.1khz source) to 48khz in hardware. There is no way around this. Ideally, audio should be played in the format it is natively in, and if it is going to be resampled, then best results are an even resample multiples. As such, 44.1khz CD Audio should be played at 44.1khz, or resampled to 88.2khz. This *is* possible on the Envy24 series of cards, as they don't resample stuff in hardware. Point to the Envy24.
Are you using analog output, or SPDIF output? If you are using SPDIF output, then this section is irrelevant to you. If you use analog though, then pay attention. The DACs found on the Audigy cards are excellent as a general rule. There may be lower quality DACs on the low-end Audigy 2 or older Audigy 1 cards, but I'm not quite sure off the top of my head. The DACs of the Envy24HT series of cards are also excellent, but I know that the DACs found on the Envy24HT-S cards are average at best. If you look at my recommendation above though, if you are using analog, you should be using an Envy24HT, not an Envy24HT-S. One could probably do alot more research and argue wether one of the contenders has better DACs, but that person isn't me. One thing for certain though is that if you get a regular Audigy 2, or an Envy24HT, then you are getting good analog. No points here, as they are pretty much tied.
Driver quality. Creative is notorious for their horrible drivers, combined with massive bloat on the driver accessory level. This was definitly a large factor for my purchase of a a non-Creative card this time around. The drivers for the Envy24HT-S are absolutely much cleaner than any Creative driver since the excellent AWE64. Even more full featured drivers like the ones for the Envy24HT based Prodigy 7.1 get you alot more (like ASIO support) for a smaller amount of control panels. Point to the Envy24.
Everything else between the cards will be essentially the same. I'm not here to make the decision for you, but this should be enough to make a buying decision based on what you need the card to do.
What 3D sound APIs do these cards support?
Through the Sensaura driver included with Envy24 cards, they support A3D, EAX 1.0 and 2.0, and all the other random audio APIs that everything supports. On a side note, Sensaura was recently purchased by Creative Labs. As such, it is possible that Sensaura availability will dissappear from the world, but more likely Creative will continue to liscense it out. That way they make money on every soundcard even if they aren't the ones that are selling them. It is also possible that Sensaura will gain EAX 3.0 and 4.0 support later since it is the daughter company of Creative (the EAX guys).
Why should I get an VIA Envy24HT/HT-S instead of a Creative Labs Audigy 2?
There are several points to cover, but the main ones are as follows.
How important is gaming to you? The Audigy line of cards are generally considered to be better gamer's cards. They support the newer EAX versions 3.0 and 4.0, something that can't be found anywhere else at the momment. They are also essentially the reference card that developers use when making a game, so how the game sounds on an Audigy is pretty certain to be how it was intended to be heard. That isn't to say that the Envy24 cards aren't good at gaming. I personally enjoy the gaming experience on my Envy24HT-S more than I did on the Soundblaster Live it replaced. Through the Sensaura driver that they ship with, the Envy24 cards support all the regular gaming audio APIs, as well as Creative's EAX 1.0 and 2.0. Any half-way decent developer is going to make sure that their game works well on a Sensaura enabled card (pretty much everything that isn't Creative) since Sensaura based cards are a huge percentage of the market. The Audigy is a bit ahead of the Envy24 on gaming, but not by much. Point to the Audigy.
Is Bit-Perfect playback important to you? This is an area where the Envy24 based solutions destroy the Audigy line. Audigy cards are going to resample your CD Audio (and any 44.1khz source) to 48khz in hardware. There is no way around this. Ideally, audio should be played in the format it is natively in, and if it is going to be resampled, then best results are an even resample multiples. As such, 44.1khz CD Audio should be played at 44.1khz, or resampled to 88.2khz. This *is* possible on the Envy24 series of cards, as they don't resample stuff in hardware. Point to the Envy24.
Are you using analog output, or SPDIF output? If you are using SPDIF output, then this section is irrelevant to you. If you use analog though, then pay attention. The DACs found on the Audigy cards are excellent as a general rule. There may be lower quality DACs on the low-end Audigy 2 or older Audigy 1 cards, but I'm not quite sure off the top of my head. The DACs of the Envy24HT series of cards are also excellent, but I know that the DACs found on the Envy24HT-S cards are average at best. If you look at my recommendation above though, if you are using analog, you should be using an Envy24HT, not an Envy24HT-S. One could probably do alot more research and argue wether one of the contenders has better DACs, but that person isn't me. One thing for certain though is that if you get a regular Audigy 2, or an Envy24HT, then you are getting good analog. No points here, as they are pretty much tied.
Driver quality. Creative is notorious for their horrible drivers, combined with massive bloat on the driver accessory level. This was definitly a large factor for my purchase of a a non-Creative card this time around. The drivers for the Envy24HT-S are absolutely much cleaner than any Creative driver since the excellent AWE64. Even more full featured drivers like the ones for the Envy24HT based Prodigy 7.1 get you alot more (like ASIO support) for a smaller amount of control panels. Point to the Envy24.
Everything else between the cards will be essentially the same. I'm not here to make the decision for you, but this should be enough to make a buying decision based on what you need the card to do.
I agree with Wedge1 that the Chaintech Envy24 sounds pretty good when gaming. I had a sound blaster live and to me, I think the Chaintech sounds better.
I take back what I said about this card. This card rocks! My music sounds so much better on my Logitech Z-560 than my onboard sound. I prefer to use the 5.1 setting with Downmix LFE/Center DAC to Front channels and Downmix Surround to Front channels checked in the speaker config tab, than using the wolfson 2 channel config.
Just FYI, another MASSIVE point in the Envy24's favor (as implemented on the Chainte AV-710):
It has front panel audio connections!
So, if your case has those 'front panel' headphone and mic ports....you can plug them into your Chaintech AV-710.
And, of course, can't on the Audigy (the front-panel pins on all Creative cards are proprietary to their 'Live Drive' device)
It has front panel audio connections!
So, if your case has those 'front panel' headphone and mic ports....you can plug them into your Chaintech AV-710.
And, of course, can't on the Audigy (the front-panel pins on all Creative cards are proprietary to their 'Live Drive' device)
I just got this card...never had a nice audio card before.
My computer speakers are THX certified Altec Lansings, with an SPDIF input. I attached the SPDIF out on the card to the SPDIF in on the speakers. I get no sound if i play an mp3 file. I can unplug the SPDIF cable from the speakers and see the cool red light, so I'm assuming the port is live, the drivers are happy, and the SPDIF is working, for some definition of working.
Do I need a digital or other connector running from my CD player to the card?
What else could the problem be? Can I use SPDIF for everything (mp3's, etc) or just for DVD's, with a connector cable running from the DVD drive to the audio card? I can't find any connectors for drive->card, so I'm going to have to hunt around.
I can connect the card with the analog connectors, but only one connector seems to be producing anything (the green line out connector) ...the others seem to do nothing. With my speakers in ProLogic mode, it still sounds great to my untutored ears, but...?
Thanks,
Dave.
My computer speakers are THX certified Altec Lansings, with an SPDIF input. I attached the SPDIF out on the card to the SPDIF in on the speakers. I get no sound if i play an mp3 file. I can unplug the SPDIF cable from the speakers and see the cool red light, so I'm assuming the port is live, the drivers are happy, and the SPDIF is working, for some definition of working.
Do I need a digital or other connector running from my CD player to the card?
What else could the problem be? Can I use SPDIF for everything (mp3's, etc) or just for DVD's, with a connector cable running from the DVD drive to the audio card? I can't find any connectors for drive->card, so I'm going to have to hunt around.
I can connect the card with the analog connectors, but only one connector seems to be producing anything (the green line out connector) ...the others seem to do nothing. With my speakers in ProLogic mode, it still sounds great to my untutored ears, but...?
Thanks,
Dave.
What drivers do you have installed? Do you have a Via vinyl audio center? If so, there are options to configure which outputs you want to use, which speaker setup you want to run it in.
Yep, I have the audio center. I set it to SPDIF enabled for many different speaker configs, and none of them produced anything on my speakers. Analog connections, on the other hand, with my speakers set to normal "quad" mode, works very well. MUCH better than onboard audio, and seems to be an improvement from a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz I used to have. Need to wake the neighbours up a little more before I know for sure.
Not being able to get the SPDIF working is a major annoyance, though...any ideas?
-D.
Not being able to get the SPDIF working is a major annoyance, though...any ideas?
-D.
Anybody running this card with z-680s? I will be getting them for christmas and i don't know $h!t about sound cards. I'm looking for a reasonably priced solution that will take full advantage of my new setup.
thanks,
Deucer
thanks,
Deucer
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