CFLs or LEDs?

[Jimzz]

I bought a box of 20 CFL's back when, most died within a year or less. I ended up getting a gift card from the manufacturer good enough to cover 2 boxes. Most of those crapped out quickly also so they sent yet another gift card and I got more. My whole house is CFL and they were basically free at this point so i'll use them until I run out or LEDs get cheap enough.

Have you checked your voltage? CFLs are very picky to voltage spikes and also low voltage.

After re-wiring my house very few burn outs since with my CFL's.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I still have a bunch of CFLs from when they were the in thing. I never was a big electricity user to start with so I didn't see much energy savings from them, but I'm in love with almost never having to change the bulbs. All my CFLs either didn't work from the start or are still working now some 5 years after they were installed. For some reason there have been none that were simply short lived.

I like the led bulbs too, so I'll probably start phasing them in as the ones I have finally begin to fail. That could be a while though.

 

[Gillbot]

Have you checked your voltage? CFLs are very picky to voltage spikes and also low voltage.

After re-wiring my house very few burn outs since with my CFL's.

I think it was a bad batch on the first 2 boxes. They asked for the lot code and they matched on the first 2 boxes, didn't even want the bad ones back. They told me to recycle them. Since then, not too many issues but I don't recall which were from the old batch and which are from the new batch any more so I lost track. I still have over a full box left, maybe two so they stopped crapping out like they used to.

I did put an ebay cheap-o LED in each of my kids rooms and they do ok but are kind of dim compared to the CFL's. Good for ambient light but for any thing else you need to turn on the overhead which has CFLs in it.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I use led lamps. My led lamps were an investment that i already earned back.
Be careful though...
Some led lamps can be dimmed others not, check that before you buy a led lamp that you want to dim. Some led lamps with a little switch mode power supply in them are a capacitive load.You will then need a dimmer that cuts of the trailing edge of the sine. This way the inrush current is Sinusoidal and not a spike as with leading edge dimmers. This is called reversed phase control, these dimmers are more expensive mind you.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I have also dimmable lights, but these are the last three incandescent lamps that i have. and they are usually off.

 

[BurnItDwn]

My house has CFLs, LEDs, Halogen, and Incandescent.

I have mostly CFLs in the house.
My home theater has a mix.
In the very back, I have a circuit with a dimmer hooked up to 3 halogen floods, this is where I have my reciever, bluray player, etc. I also have the popcorn maker and mini frige back there. Wanted to be able to get it nice and bright for cleaning/maintenance purposes, and with flat black paint on the walls, I opted to go halogen. (most of the time,they are off, unless I am eating a meal on the bar table while watching a movie , then I have them dimmed quite a bit.)

The home theater has then a second circuit with 4 recessed lights
1 is at the very bottom of the stairs, by the entry to the theater area, or entry to bathroom, or entry to laundry room. It's an incandescent.
3 of them are about 1 foot from the wall of the theater room, these are LEDs, essentially, illuminate the walkway, and the wall of blurays/dvds/cds.

I tried doing 4 LEDs, but, the blinking was too annoying, the LEDs do blink even with 1 incandescent on the circuit, but the blinking is much less, not so bad with the 3:1 ratio.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Both CFLs and LEDs are dimmable.

I've read about the CFL warmup issues. They've actually gotten about 50+% better than they used to. I'm not sure why, but in colder climates they are still pretty bad. I still believe the energy savings is worth the warm up time. For what you're saving in energy costs, you can stand to leave the lights on.

Right now, for what most LEDs cost, they are not an economical choice. Most people selling them are stuck because of how many LEDs it takes to generate the lumens needed to compete with CFL & Incandecent lamps. The argument is, "You only have to buy one bulb every 22 years or something...." My argument is that in 5-10 years after I burn through a few CFLs or incandecent lamps, LEDs are likely going to be much cheaper.

I was looking at LED recessed lights and they cost nearly $40 per light. I thought halogen lights were expensive!

If you have any light bulb specialty stores, check out the lights they have to offer. It's amazing how far these things have come in just a few years.

 

[PlanetJosh]

What CFLs have you used that create THAT much heat as to impact ambient temperatures, any time of year? Sure, the bases themselves might get toasty, but they still radiate an insignificant amount of heat compared to incandescent bulbs.

I wonder about this though, which I just found out today: It looks like CFLs heat output is 30 BTUs/hour compared to 85 BTUs/hour for incandescents.

That's around a third of incandescents so that may not be an insignificant amount of heat. Here's a source for those figures.

http://www.designrecycleinc.com/led%20comp%20chart.html

I could be leaving out other factors like how lumens fits into the BTU comparison I made. If you mean that incandescents don't affect ambient temperature much then nevermind. But I'm under the assumption they can.

 

[T9D]

Both CFLs and LEDs are dimmable.

I Most people selling them are stuck because of how many LEDs it takes to generate the lumens needed to compete with CFL & Incandecent lamps.

Huh? They have LED bubs that go up to 100 watt equivalent for a decent price (considering). They actually do look like 100 watt bulb too, not just marketing. Any place you can put any other type of bulb you can stick an LED that is just as bright now. I don't think it matters how many, the ultimate size of the bulb in comparison and economy of scale will eventually come into play. Right now they keep the price higher too so they can pay off all the research and new factory lines they had to build.

 

[edro]

They make extremely high output LEDs now too.
You can get thousands of lumens from a single multi-die chip.

This is an exciting time, as the market is exploding and costs are finally affordable.

Philips just released a new 60W equivalent version that is <$10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Bp0dQqr3E
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/ide...e-an-easy-resolution-to-keep-in-the-new-year/

Cree has had a good 60W equivalent for $15 for over a year now.

A few years from now, they will be <$5 each and will last a lifetime.

 

[bignateyk]

That's a negative where you have long winters.

Heat generated in a light bulb just resistive loss, which is the least efficient source of heat. You'd be much better off using that energy savings to power your heat pump.

 

[lxskllr]

Heat generated in a light bulb just resistive loss, which is the least efficient source of heat. You'd be much better off using that energy savings to power your heat pump.

What does that mean? Unless the heat pump is doing some kind of magic, it's transforming energy sources, and losing some of it in the process. If anything, a light bulb is most efficient use of energy. Every watt generated turns to heat inside the house, aside from the photons that escape out the window.

 

[bignateyk]

What does that mean? Unless the heat pump is doing some kind of magic, it's transforming energy sources, and losing some of it in the process. If anything, a light bulb is most efficient use of energy. Every watt generated turns to heat inside the house, aside from the photons that escape out the window.

A heat pump is much more efficient than a resistive heat source (like baseboard electric) assuming you don't live in a place like Alaska where you continuously operate at a temperature where the heat pump has to defrost itself.

An electric baseboard turns basically 100% of the electricity it uses into heat. (A light bulb is obviously much less since a good portion of the energy it uses goes to light)

Heat pumps transfer heat from one place to another. They can produce up to 4x the amount of energy that they use.

Other sources like wood and coal typically only turn 30% of the fuel energy into heat. Though they are still usually cheaper than electric heat.

 

[Howard]

Considering the awfulness of non-dimmable CFL's, I don't think you could pay me to try dimmable ones. After the tenth one buns out I'm gonna start breakin' shit.

I'm curious about LED's, though. I was gonna say that LED dimming was feasible, but would require an array of lights and not 'dim' so much as just have multiple brightness levels.

I still use incandescent bulbs. Suck it, environment.

LEDs are entirely dimmable AFAIK. A simple adjustable voltage circuit can demonstrate this.

 

[Crusty]

A heat pump is much more efficient than a resistive heat source (like baseboard electric).

An electric baseboard turns basically 100% of the electricity it uses into heat. (A light bulb is obviously much less since a good portion of the energy it uses goes to light)

Heat pumps transfer heat from one place to another. They can produce up to 4x the amount of energy that they use.

I think you just broke Physics.

 

[bignateyk]

I think you just broke Physics.

They don't create 4x the amount of energy that they use. They transfer energy that already exists. Poor choice of wording when I said "produce"

 

[Red Squirrel]

I think you just broke Physics.

Maybe it's because it uses magnets, how do they even work? It's magic!

I wonder how well heat pumps work long term though. ex: on a -40 week where it has to run 12+ hours at a time.

 

[bignateyk]

Maybe it's because it uses magnets, how do they even work? It's magic!

I wonder how well heat pumps work long term though. ex: on a -40 week where it has to run 12+ hours at a time.

The most efficient air source heat pumps really start to lose efficiency below 20 degrees.

COP of a baseboard electric is 1.
COP of an air source heat pump at optimal temperature is around 4.5
COP of an air source heat pump below 20 degrees starts to drop to around 2.

So even under those circumstances, it's still twice as efficient as baseboard electric.

If you live in Alaska, a heat pump is a pretty poor choice (at least an air source. Not sure how a ground source would perform there). Wood/coal is gonna be the cheapest source of heat in extremely cold climates. Zone 6 and above are good for heat pumps.

edit: As a further note, most electricity comes from fossil fuels, which is only 30ish% efficient. The reality is that a high efficiency natural gas boiler is the most efficient furnace you can buy. Even coal/wood could be more efficient. The problem with coal and wood is that you always have to be there to babysit them.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

I have been very disappointed in the CFLs I've used, regret the purchase.

 

[bignateyk]

I have been very disappointed in the CFLs I've used, regret the purchase.

One thing a lot of people don't realize is that you aren't supposed to put CFL's in an enclosed fixture. They will burn out in a matter of months if they aren't open to the surrounding air.

 

[shortylickens]

i have dimmable LED's in my kitchen right now. They are also warm, like an incandescent.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

One thing a lot of people don't realize is that you aren't supposed to put CFL's in an enclosed fixture. They will burn out in a matter of months if they aren't open to the surrounding air.

i have had terrible failure rates from all brands i have tried in all applications. indoor, outdoor, enclosed, open. im sure there are better quality bulbs than I have tried, but for the premium ANY CFL costs it certainly hasn't been worth it over incandescent. and now i have a box of mercury to dispose of.

 

[corwin]

I could be leaving out other factors like how lumens fits into the BTU comparison I made. If you mean that incandescents don't affect ambient temperature much then nevermind. But I'm under the assumption they can.

In small spaces with lots of bulbs incandescent bulbs most certainly do affect the ambient temp, my wife always complained how hot it was in the bathroom doing her makeup/hair/whatever until I replaced the 8 incandescent bulbs with CFL, it's perceptibly cooler now...one bulb here and there no, in that specific instance absolutely yes

 

[edro]

...

 

[who?]

I don't know how accurate it is but according to my UPS line voltage sits at 122 volts. How high a voltage can the new bulbs tolerate for long?