CF RX 480

[Rifter]

the difference is Nvidia shills have to tell you in their signatures ,AMD shills don't.

http://www.slideshare.net/socialmed...se-study-amd-presented-by-jon-peters-11470759

http://www.ngohq.com/?page=articles&go=read&arc_id=112

lets keep it on topic though...

Maybe now, but they sure didnt in the Rollo days.






You're trashing this thread by taking it off topic.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[guskline]

guskline, you think a dual 480 card (lets call it say, a 490) would be a promising card in AMDs lineup if at $499?

Short answer is no and here's why. You can get a high end GTX1070 for less.

I've been playing around with my CF RX 480s and they are fun but have drawbacks. They use more power than GTX1070/1080. They don't have full game CF profile support (it is better than it used to be)

First some background. I've used GTX 670s in SLI, R9 290s in CF and now RX480s in CF. I have a bit of experience in this area. The RX480s in CF are the smoothest combo and draw much less power than the R9 290s but more power than a nearly comparable GTX1070.

That being said, AMD seems to not have Vega ready to go prime time. Perhaps a lack of HBM2? Interposer problems? Or perhaps Dr. Su wants total focus on ZEN.

The GTX1080TI is most likely ready to go and BIG Vega is most likely the only AMD chip to compete.

The 470/480 Polaris is a solid chip and dual Polaris chips would make a compelling card but at $499? A bit too high.

I have 2 RX480s in CF and it only cost me $488. If the RX490 was a dual Polaris and released at $399 that might be a different story.

There are some cost savings to dual gpu chips on a single pcb but I doubt you would get much more performance than CF 480s. It would have a better cooler (would need to) and a more robust pcb but the overall card performance would probably not beat a GTX 1080.

I gave some real thought to the correct price for a RX490 if it is really dual RX 480s. One of the downsides is it is a single card. I can sell one of my RX480s at anytime or both if Big Vega come on board. I see RX490 as a niche card with VERY limited demand UNLESS it is a dual small Vega gpu. Now, if the RX490 was 2 small Vega chips in tandem, that is a MUCH different story.

 

[Termie]

guskline, just a quick thank you for sharing your experience with this setup. Definitely an interesting option that hasn't received enough attention previously.

 

[tential]

I'm not sure how many people go out of the box and decide "lets crossfire 480".
I assume it is more like "I have a 480 and I see this great deal so I can add a second one".

If you go for CF from the startup I guess it is quite valid to consider 470CF vs 480CF, although I assume/guess the 470CF is going to be around 1070 performance range while the 480CF will be 10-20% faster.

The problem is we are all guessing because there is very little information about CF/SLI (IMO much less than in the past) and all of it seems to be from release, ie outdated.

And I also assume you can CF 480 with 470. In the past we would have someone going and trying all these weird configurations.

I looked at some reviews. The difference is extremely close actually. It's under 10% I feel. I mean it's not like there is even a massive perf difference between the 480 and 470 right now is there?
Also, generally speaking amd doesn't cut down a chip that much. This is evidenced by the 290, 7950, fury, etc. The 470 just continues that trend.

Looks like the ideal chip for someone who would want to cf and wants things to stay cheap. Also if you're mining too, makes the payback period for investment much shorter.

Obviously I hate midrange cf, but I mean, when you're in the situation amd is in, you have discussion on a midrange chip crossfire (and I consider rather 470 to be low end midrange so man that's an awkward conversation.).

Amd needs to flesh out their lineup yesterday.
I thought some users here had multiple 470s from mining.

 

[tential]

Short answer is no and here's why. You can get a high end GTX1070 for less.

I've been playing around with my CF RX 480s and they are fun but have drawbacks. They use more power than GTX1070/1080. They don't have full game CF profile support (it is better than it used to be)

First some background. I've used GTX 670s in SLI, R9 290s in CF and now RX480s in CF. I have a bit of experience in this area. The RX480s in CF are the smoothest combo and draw much less power than the R9 290s but more power than a nearly comparable GTX1070.

That being said, AMD seems to not have Vega ready to go prime time. Perhaps a lack of HBM2? Interposer problems? Or perhaps Dr. Su wants total focus on ZEN.

The GTX1080TI is most likely ready to go and BIG Vega is most likely the only AMD chip to compete.

The 470/480 Polaris is a solid chip and dual Polaris chips would make a compelling card but at $499? A bit too high.

I have 2 RX480s in CF and it only cost me $488. If the RX490 was a dual Polaris and released at $399 that might be a different story.

There are some cost savings to dual gpu chips on a single pcb but I doubt you would get much more performance than CF 480s. It would have a better cooler (would need to) and a more robust pcb but the overall card performance would probably not beat a GTX 1080.

I gave some real thought to the correct price for a RX490 if it is really dual RX 480s. One of the downsides is it is a single card. I can sell one of my RX480s at anytime or both if Big Vega come on board. I see RX490 as a niche card with VERY limited demand UNLESS it is a dual small Vega gpu. Now, if the RX490 was 2 small Vega chips in tandem, that is a MUCH different story.

Ya the 490 if it's a dual gpu is stupidly hard to price. I feel like it would almost need to be sold at a discount if you get 2 chips on one board. But that is even worse for amd.

If amd could do it for under $440 then it's interesting but I'm not sure it's profitable...

I think a dual 470 card would be more cost effective for amd and users from a cost to performance ratio. This is due to my post above where cut-down chips offer the best price/perf for amd.

 

[thesmokingman]

lets keep it on topic though...

That's righteous when you're the idiot who brought it up.







Stop with the name calling posts. You're trashing this thread by taking it off topic.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[krumme]

Now now, let's not bicker and argue about who killed who, this is supposed to be a happy occasion!

 

[esquared]

I just went through the thread and issued zero point warnings to multiple people.

Next person who derails this thread with another conspiracy post or name calling will be infracted and vacationed.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[amenx]

Short answer is no and here's why. You can get a high end GTX1070 for less.

I've been playing around with my CF RX 480s and they are fun but have drawbacks. They use more power than GTX1070/1080. They don't have full game CF profile support (it is better than it used to be)

First some background. I've used GTX 670s in SLI, R9 290s in CF and now RX480s in CF. I have a bit of experience in this area. The RX480s in CF are the smoothest combo and draw much less power than the R9 290s but more power than a nearly comparable GTX1070.

That being said, AMD seems to not have Vega ready to go prime time. Perhaps a lack of HBM2? Interposer problems? Or perhaps Dr. Su wants total focus on ZEN.

The GTX1080TI is most likely ready to go and BIG Vega is most likely the only AMD chip to compete.

The 470/480 Polaris is a solid chip and dual Polaris chips would make a compelling card but at $499? A bit too high.

I have 2 RX480s in CF and it only cost me $488. If the RX490 was a dual Polaris and released at $399 that might be a different story.

There are some cost savings to dual gpu chips on a single pcb but I doubt you would get much more performance than CF 480s. It would have a better cooler (would need to) and a more robust pcb but the overall card performance would probably not beat a GTX 1080.

I gave some real thought to the correct price for a RX490 if it is really dual RX 480s. One of the downsides is it is a single card. I can sell one of my RX480s at anytime or both if Big Vega come on board. I see RX490 as a niche card with VERY limited demand UNLESS it is a dual small Vega gpu. Now, if the RX490 was 2 small Vega chips in tandem, that is a MUCH different story.

Thanks, your analysis is spot on. I had assumed that 480 CF may have been on par with a 1080, and even if at $499 (maybe less after reading your post) is at least $100 cheaper. A dual 480 may not be an attractive buy but if AMD does not have a powerful single card out soon, a dual 480 can still serve a purpose, that is to break the top 4 green entries in the bench charts. Mid-range duals have been done before (4850x2), as well as very high priced enthusiast cards, the $1500 Pro Duo which imo is an even more unmarketable card.

 

[guskline]

termie and amenx, thank you both for your comments.

I love fooling around with different combinations of video cards. After I sold my R9 290s to offset the cost of the GTX 1080 I had the 5960x build with the GTX 1080 and the 4790k build with the GTX980TI SC. When the 3rd build, 6700k was underway I decided to go back to an AMD card for comparison and the newest card at the time was the RX480. I was lucky enough to snag a reference card on release week for the $239 retail. I had tons of fun with it until the CF itch was too hard to resist. I was able with some luck to find the exact same card slightly used for the same price. My only other choice was to go with a Fury or Fury X and that seemed to be going backward.

AMD's real problem is that without a high end card, the RX480 is the max new card. The reference card I already owned is the slowest BUT not that much slower than the highest OC'd 480 (they are NOT tremendous overclockers). I toyed with the idea of slapping on a waterblock but the extra cost is too much considering the base price of the card.

Getting back to the rumored RX490, I suspect some are already built but I think they are an alternative to CF 480s until Vega drops. BTW any news on when that is to occur. All AMD news seems focused on ZEN.

 

[happy medium]

BTW aany news on when that is to occur.

Best guess is December 13. I'd put money on it.

 

[guskline]

Is anyone running CF RX470s? Would love to hear their input.
Happy Medium is the 13th event just for ZEN or will it also include new info on Vega?

 

[happy medium]

Is anyone running CF RX470s? Would love to hear their input.
Happy Medium is the 13th event just for ZEN or will it also include new info on Vega?

They will talk about gpu's also.

 

[tential]

Thanks, your analysis is spot on. I had assumed that 480 CF may have been on par with a 1080, and even if at $499 (maybe less after reading your post) is at least $100 cheaper. A dual 480 may not be an attractive buy but if AMD does not have a powerful single card out soon, a dual 480 can still serve a purpose, that is to break the top 4 green entries in the bench charts. Mid-range duals have been done before (4850x2), as well as very high priced enthusiast cards, the $1500 Pro Duo which imo is an even more unmarketable card.

Could have the exact opposite effect by having many games show it performing on parts with their "second tier" offering. Thus people say it's a dud and sucks without realizing the game just doesn't support cf. It's a double edged sword and not one I'd play if that's their intent on releasing the card.

I just don't see any good reason got amd to release it. There is no benefit. The market for people who want to pay extra for 2 midrange chips is low. Amd isn't going to offer the sku at 440 or directly 2x the 480 because then it's priced above the 1070 and likely above the Vega chip targeted against the 1070.

The market for people who want to go straight crossfire 480s months late is low now. This would be a far too late move if amd made it.

If amd had done an 8gb version of the 470 crossfire on one card for $350 at release? That would have done well and would have given amd a good alternative to the midrange king the 1070. That's 2 gens in a row amd completely has no contender in that bracket.

 

[guskline]

tential, you make a great point about a dual 470 at that price point, perhaps even $399 water cooled. Again, as pointed out, the problem would be compatibility with a number of games in CF.

 

[vissarix]

Short story rx480 cf barely faster then a gtx 1070 on those few games which have perfect scaling and no issues at $100 more and 150w more...definitely not worth it unless common sense is your enemy

 

[AtenRa]

Today's prices from newegg,

RX 470 4GB = $150 AR

2x RX 470 4GB = $300 AR

Cheapest GTX1070 = $385 AR

CF RX 470 vs GTX 1070

CF = cheaper
CF = Faster

GTX 1070 lower consumption
GTX 1070 no CF profile/scaling

Its a nice alternative, better to have it than not. Its not for everybody but some may find it worth it to use it.

@guskline

Could you please report after the new driver is officially launched if Chill can be used in CF mode ??

 

[Thinker_145]

Today's prices from newegg,

RX 470 4GB = $150 AR

2x RX 470 4GB = $300 AR

Cheapest GTX1070 = $385 AR

CF RX 470 vs GTX 1070

CF = cheaper
CF = Faster

GTX 1070 lower consumption
GTX 1070 no CF profile/scaling

Its a nice alternative, better to have it than not. Its not for everybody but some may find it worth it to use it.

@guskline

Could you please report after the new driver is officially launched if Chill can be used in CF mode ??

lol 4GB 470 CF isn't better than a 1070. What a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[tg2708]

Today's prices from newegg,

RX 470 4GB = $150 AR

2x RX 470 4GB = $300 AR

Cheapest GTX1070 = $385 AR

CF RX 470 vs GTX 1070

CF = cheaper
CF = Faster

GTX 1070 lower consumption
GTX 1070 no CF profile/scaling

This is inaccurate. 1070 does scale with SLI.

 

[guskline]

It is truly amazing how a few words can turn a thread into an AMD v Nvidia battle ground.
"definitely not worth it unless common sense is your enemy"
"
CF = cheaper
CF = Faster
"

I try to utilize common sense.

That is why I spent, at the time, @$239.99 for a single RX 480 instead of @$400 for a GTX 1070. Especially since I already, HAD a GTX 1080 FE machine (we all have been called crazy for buying these) and A GTX 980 TI SC machine AND wanted a new AMD gpu for my third machine to compare.

Some 5 months later I got the bug to try the RX480 in CF. I could have sold my original RX 480 for @$210 and bought a $400 GTX 1070 BUT my freesync monitor would not utilize freesync and I already have a GTX 1080. Makes sense to me.

CF RX 480 is NOT cheaper than GTX 1070. 2 new RX480s is at least $480. Most of the used ones are still over $200. Many new GTX1070s are in the low $400 range with some being as low as @$375.

The trouble with absolutes is there always seems to be an exception.

From what I read online in the limited testing done, CF 480 might be slightly faster than GTX 1070 but they are in the same ball park.

My testing of my GTX 1080 FE vs my 2 RX480s in CF shows a mix of which is faster with the GTX 1080 winning most of the time.

Let me repeat for sake of emphasis, If I already have a RX470/480 and a Freesync monitor, adding a second card gives decent bang for the buck. HOWEVER, If I am starting a new build and have budgeted at least $375 for gpus, the single GTX 1070 wins the day.

 

[guskline]

Atenra what is Chill?

 

[richaron]

With respect to X-fire. I've never liked it when "they" tried to convince me the world is black and white.

Obviously a single more powerful card is preferable to dual lesser cards in many situations.

Equally obviously dual smaller cards working together can be the best in many situations.

It's the muppets making stupid claims about which is better, without qualifiers, which is hurting these forums.

 

[AtenRa]

Atenra what is Chill?

http://videocardz.com/64496/amd-preparing-crimson-relive-driver-update

 

[AtenRa]

lol 4GB 470 CF isn't better than a 1070. What a ridiculous thing to say.

links ??

This is inaccurate. 1070 does scale with SLI.

I was comparing a single GTX 1070 to CF RX 470, the Single GTX 1070 has no need for CF/SLI profiles and Scaling. Its one of the pros for the Single GTX 1070 vs CF RX 470.

 

[Thinker_145]

links ??



I was comparing a single GTX 1070 to CF RX 470, the Single GTX 1070 has no need for CF/SLI profiles and Scaling. Its one of the pros for the Single GTX 1070 vs CF RX 470.

A single 1070 is 90% faster than a 4GB 470 so there is really no need for a link here...