Free markets are not human nature. Human nature is the bigger guy who can beat the crap out of the smaller one, and take his things and get away with it will do it.
Ahh, but it isn't the board's money. It's the shareholders money, so why should the board care? It's tough to replace board members, even tougher to get rid of a crap CEO. Why? Because they have lotsa buddies.
That's because, at this time, a CEO's contribution is worth 262 times more than that of the average worker. Next year, that differential will be even greater.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 308
- 126
I have to say the data points repeatedly to the "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" as the source of this hoodwinking of America. The average CEO's of European countries get a fraction of the pay of their American counterparts for often multitudes in performance.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
that would work too... i prefer the hard work route myself. but either way is perfectly fine by me.
i dont want for anything, and i certainly dont make 262 times the average wage. but i have absolutely no problem with those who do. hell, maybe one day I will too! that's the beauty of America! the possibilities are endless, and it's all up to me as to which dreams of mine come true, and which get left unfulfilled.
so be it.
do wealthy business owners make you angry, sad, or jealous? or something along those lines?
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
I'm as much a fan of capitalism as anybody, but even I can't defend the current corporate model in America. Wealthy business owners have nothing in common with CEOs. Trying to equate the two is just setting up a straw man The typical business owner, be it a small proprietor or partner in a small business, generally works their fingers to the bone and often for very little income for many years. Only after years and years of hard work does it pay off to the point where they can hire enough employees to lighten their workload. I know, and have worked for small business owners (between 5 and 30 employees) most of my career. They work hard and make a comfortable living. What they do not do is stand back while the company goes under, and jumps ship while taking a massive severance package.
We need to see more shareholders suing overpaid CEOs and stripping them of everything.
db
Lifer
- Dec 6, 1999
- 10,575
- 292
- 126
Many CEOs are in it only for a few years. They don't care about the long-term health of the company, just short-term b/c that's how they get their bonus. The average American admires them simply b/c they made lots of money. They don't see the destroyed lives and plundered retirement funds, etc etc.
There is something wrong with anybody who worships this type of anti-social, self-serving and destructive person.
There is something wrong with anybody who worships this type of anti-social, self-serving and destructive person.
I doubt that. CEO are like a fraternity with the occasional newcomer stepping up but otherwise shuffeling their seats around.
I certainly agree there. Take a look at Henry Silverman sometime. As I have stated before, Cendant stock was at 22 in Oct 03 and is at 16 now. Also, in the 5 years prior, it was in the 22 area. Meanwhile, he divested, bought, and paid huge premiums for companies, destroying shareholder wealth the whole time. For that, he got paid ~19m a year + a crap-ton of cheap options.
That's just one and one that is not known very well. There are hundreds of others who use companies like their own piggy bank. As stated before, Jack Welch was a good CEO, but he wasn't GE's best and yet he still gathered the biggest paycheck of any GE CEO. His after-retirement perks were kingly.
The corruption and greed at the top is disgusting. there was once a time when CEO's made only a double digit multiple of a lower paid analyst. Now, it's out of control.
Hard work Isnt the Problem..
Many people get these positions because its not what they know, its who they know.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
so? what's your point. are you a "have not" completely consumed by your hatred of the "haves"? if not, then work hard and you too can join the CEO club. like i said before, that's the beauty of America. We may not all start out equal in terms of opportunity, but each of us has it within ourselves to get there if we try hard enough. If that means that you have to try 10 times harder than the next guy, then so be it. you just might appreciate the end rsult that much more!
GL!
There is nothing wrong striving to be a top income earner. However, there *IS* something wrong with making a rediculous amount of money which is out of alignment with what you add.
There aren't many CEO's who are worth 262 employees. I have known several and met many CEOs, board members, and other C-level people. It's pretty easy to distinguish who is and isn't getting paid way more than their contribution to the success of a company.
Heck, I strive to be a C-level within the next 15 years and I lobby strongly against 262x average salary. Why? Because no matter how much I know, how many high level degrees I get, and how much expertise I gather, I do not think I will ever be worth 262 other people. There are few men who are, somebody like Warren Buffet is, but there aren't many guys out there who are as smart as he is.
Bill Gates, sure. Larry Ellison, Sure. Koslowski or ilk like him, no way in hell.
The CEO is like a quarterback of a football team. It is the single element that can most influence the success of the entity. However, just like quarterbacks many are overpaid for what they produce.
Many CEO's are overpaid, but there are some who consistently pull companies into profitability, or consistently create profitable companies. These people are worth every penny. The problem is that there are many others who are not. The reason CEO's are paid so much is that there are probably 100 truly good CEO's in the marketplace. This drives the cost of a CEO up even if the CEO chosen wasn't worth minimum wage.
In keeping with the quarterback analogy, how many quarterbacks are given massive contracts only to have them never really produce anything? This is basically the same thing.
BTW Steve Jobs (probably one of the most successful CEO's of the last 20 years) makes 1 dollar per year in salary (from Apple), and 52 dollars a year from Pixar (before it was bought by Disney). Now that is a bargain.
Text
EDIT: Although I think Apple bought him a jet, so I guess he got something out of the deal.
Many CEO's are overpaid, but there are some who consistently pull companies into profitability, or consistently create profitable companies. These people are worth every penny. The problem is that there are many others who are not. The reason CEO's are paid so much is that there are probably 100 truly good CEO's in the marketplace. This drives the cost of a CEO up even if the CEO chosen wasn't worth minimum wage.
In keeping with the quarterback analogy, how many quarterbacks are given massive contracts only to have them never really produce anything? This is basically the same thing.
BTW Steve Jobs (probably one of the most successful CEO's of the last 20 years) makes 1 dollar per year in salary (from Apple), and 52 dollars a year from Pixar (before it was bought by Disney). Now that is a bargain.
Text
EDIT: Although I think Apple bought him a jet, so I guess he got something out of the deal.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
This is part of why I no longer say "Such and such CEO earned $XX million last year."
The word "earned" is not appropriate. It's how much they were paid. They did NOT "earn" it.
The word "earned" is not appropriate. It's how much they were paid. They did NOT "earn" it.
Oh right, I'll stop shopping at Walmart and go to one of their competitors.......oh, right, they're also headed by ridiculously wealthy CEO's. Time to get some advice from the Unabomber on how to live alone in a wilderness cabin. What a wealth of choices we seem to be left with...
And don't forget, when CEO's leave, they rarely are simply told to clean out their desks and leave. Well, ok, they might be - but there's generally a multi-million dollar severance package stashed away in the desk somewhere, as a parting gift from the company that they screwed over.
From which they derive more money, plus marketing....T-shirts perhaps? I'd love to see the CEO of a warehousing company actually work in a warehouse for awhile. Not just walk around either - work. Lift heavy, dirty boxes, deal with morons who never learned how to clean up after themselves, and chronicly low morale. And also the pleasure of earning hourly wages down in the single to low double digits, instead of the triple or quadruple digits they're accustomed to.
Well come on now, Genx87 would probably just call this supply vs demand. If you don't like getting threatened by the person with a big stick, just go somewhere else. Granted, leaving the group might mean you starve to death in the wild, but hey, you can choose to do that, so it's your damn own fault that you're staying and being threatened, so stop complaining.
Toyota is doing very well, there are more executives that would be willing to work there. GM on the other hand is struggling. they have to pay more to get someone to take that job.
For all of you who whine and complain about people making more money than you... why don't you go get a beter job?
It's a free world ... become educated WORK HARD and get that high paying job.
Take someon like Bill Gates - do you think he's overpaid? He took huge risks and worked hard to get where he is. You all have the same opportunities.
It's a free world ... become educated WORK HARD and get that high paying job.
Take someon like Bill Gates - do you think he's overpaid? He took huge risks and worked hard to get where he is. You all have the same opportunities.
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