theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
- 6,197
- 126
None of the people previously invading Russia had anything to gain from invading it, and were borderline suicidal in attempting to. But it happened anyways, and tens of millions of Russians died. They don't want to take a chance on that again. If losing their sphere of influence means foreign military alliance bases on the door step, than yes, they are upset about that.
Most Eastern European nations have not lost the mentality of a prostitute looking for the best paying client. 50 years ago it was USSR, now its the US and the EU, 50 years from now it probably will be China or Iran. Most of their "leaders" will happily sell out whatever independence is left to tickle their inflated egos or line their pockets (usually both). A Czech columnist said that the new, but already famous statue of a prostitute pleasuring a client in Prague is symbolic of the whole nation.
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
Biden has been reading my posts again...
Biden blasts Russia, Kremlin fires back
The Kremlin is pushing back hard against Biden's interview with the Wall Street Journal today, where he introduced a dramatically harsher tone to U.S.-Russian relations than those made by Obama in his summit meeting earlier this month, where the president called for a "reset" in relations between the two nations.
Biden, just back from a trip to Georgia and the Ukraine, said that Russian leaders are "clinging to something in the past," and dismissed Russia's claim to a sphere of influence extending to neighboring countries. ?It?s a very difficult thing to deal with, loss of empire,? said Biden.
Sergei Prikhodko, the chief foreign policy adviser to President Medvedev, shot back: ?The question is: who is shaping the U.S. foreign policy, the president or respectable members of his team??
It wasn't immediately clear if Biden's aggressive, and extended, comments represented a broader change of U.S. tone or policy, and the White House hasn't offered any comment on the interview. (4:19 p.m.)
Biden Says Weakened Russia Will Bend to U.S.
Vice President Joe Biden talked with the Wall Street Journal's Peter Spiegel on July 23.
Excerpts from their conversation. (See related article.)
Joseph Biden
On whether Russia will agree not to treat former Soviet republics as its "sphere of influence":
"I don't expect the Russians to embrace -- particularly this government, particularly Putin -- to embrace the notion that [they should] reject a sphere of influence. But I do expect them to understand we don't accept a sphere of influence."
* * *
On fears that U.S. outreach could lead to agreements with Russia that come at the expense of Ukraine and Georgia:
"They think we'll be duplicitous and say, 'Yeah, OK, we got it. We'll make a deal with you on something else we need in return for saying, yeah OK, go ahead.' ... Some argued the last administration made a deal on Chechnya in return for no response on Iraq. We're not going to do that. It's not necessary to do that."
* * *
On domestic difficulties that are affecting Russian foreign policy:
"The reality is the Russians are where they are. They have a shrinking population base, they have a withering economy, they have a banking sector and structure that is not likely to be able to withstand the next 15 years, they're in a situation where the world is changing before them and they're clinging to something in the past that is not sustainable."
* * *
On why Russian self-interest is increasingly aligned with American interests overseas:
"I always assume that sooner or later people, countries are going to figure out their self-interest. There's a whole lot between Moscow and Washington that the Russians need. It won't work if we go in and say, 'Hey, you need us, man; belly up to the bar and pay your dues.' It's not that. It's just that they're either going to make a deal with us on arms because it's in their interest or not."
* * *
On how Russian economic struggles have affected military spending, particularly on nuclear arms:
"They're sitting there looking at their economy, they're looking at our economy, and guess what? It's in their overwhelming military interest to reduce the number of nuclear weapons. All of a sudden, did they have an epiphany and say, 'Hey man, we don't want to threaten our neighbors?' No. They can't sustain it. Does that mean they won't do something stupid? No."
* * *
On how Russia's past efforts to cut off a gas pipeline through Ukraine prompted Europeans to agree on a new pipeline that bypasses Russia:
"Their actions relative to essentially blackmailing a country and a continent on natural gas, what did it produce? You've now got an agreement that no one thought they could have. Now, granted, that pipeline would only provide 5% of all the oil Europe needs."
* * *
On whether Russian leaders will accept the White House's outreach efforts:
"These guys aren't absolute average-intellect ideologues who are clinging to something nobody believes in. They're pretty pragmatic in the end."
* * *
On the need for the U.S. not to overplay its hand with Moscow:
"It is never smart to embarrass an individual or a country when they're dealing with significant loss of face. My dad used to put it another way: Never put another man in a corner where the only way out is over you. It just is not smart."
* * *
On Russia's post-Cold War position in the world:
"It's a very difficult thing to deal with, loss of empire. The empire was not justified, but still, you're sitting there and all of a sudden...this country Russia is in a very different circumstance than it has been any time in the last 40 years, or longer."
* * *
On whether Moscow will assist the U.S. in clamping down on nuclear programs in Iran and North Korea:
"I can see Putin sitting in Moscow saying, 'Jesus Christ, Iran gets the nuclear weapon, who goes first?' Moscow, not Washington."
* * *
On whether he is concerned about Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili living up to promises to strengthen democratic institutions:
"I'm not concerned, but I'm not taking any chances. The opposition believes the only reason he said it was because I was coming. The opposition said to me the only reason he did some of the stuff he did in terms of backing off the demonstrations was because I told him?.It may or may not have had an effect on his judgment."
* * *
On the difficulty of developing democratic institutions in Georgia and other new democracies:
"Part of the process that I think a lot of us forget is that none of these folks ever operated in a system where the basic politics of democracy has been exercised. I mean the raw politics -- not just politics in institutions, but politics in -- you do that, you're likely to get this response."
* * *
On criticisms that President Saakashvili has illustrated authoritarian impulses:
"He has the impulses of what was the Rose Revolution. It was:,'We're in the street, you get you're a** out of office, or we're going to do something.' That was a democratic moment, [but] it wasn't a democratic moment. It was a cry for freedom, and it was a demonstration of a total rejection of the other government. It's a leap from there to say, 'Here's how democratic institutions work'."
* * *
On whether democracy can take hold in Georgia:
"Am I worried about these guys not establishing a democracy? What worries me most is they don't understand how to establish democracy."
Biden blasts Russia, Kremlin fires back
The Kremlin is pushing back hard against Biden's interview with the Wall Street Journal today, where he introduced a dramatically harsher tone to U.S.-Russian relations than those made by Obama in his summit meeting earlier this month, where the president called for a "reset" in relations between the two nations.
Biden, just back from a trip to Georgia and the Ukraine, said that Russian leaders are "clinging to something in the past," and dismissed Russia's claim to a sphere of influence extending to neighboring countries. ?It?s a very difficult thing to deal with, loss of empire,? said Biden.
Sergei Prikhodko, the chief foreign policy adviser to President Medvedev, shot back: ?The question is: who is shaping the U.S. foreign policy, the president or respectable members of his team??
It wasn't immediately clear if Biden's aggressive, and extended, comments represented a broader change of U.S. tone or policy, and the White House hasn't offered any comment on the interview. (4:19 p.m.)
Biden Says Weakened Russia Will Bend to U.S.
Vice President Joe Biden talked with the Wall Street Journal's Peter Spiegel on July 23.
Excerpts from their conversation. (See related article.)
Joseph Biden
On whether Russia will agree not to treat former Soviet republics as its "sphere of influence":
"I don't expect the Russians to embrace -- particularly this government, particularly Putin -- to embrace the notion that [they should] reject a sphere of influence. But I do expect them to understand we don't accept a sphere of influence."
* * *
On fears that U.S. outreach could lead to agreements with Russia that come at the expense of Ukraine and Georgia:
"They think we'll be duplicitous and say, 'Yeah, OK, we got it. We'll make a deal with you on something else we need in return for saying, yeah OK, go ahead.' ... Some argued the last administration made a deal on Chechnya in return for no response on Iraq. We're not going to do that. It's not necessary to do that."
* * *
On domestic difficulties that are affecting Russian foreign policy:
"The reality is the Russians are where they are. They have a shrinking population base, they have a withering economy, they have a banking sector and structure that is not likely to be able to withstand the next 15 years, they're in a situation where the world is changing before them and they're clinging to something in the past that is not sustainable."
* * *
On why Russian self-interest is increasingly aligned with American interests overseas:
"I always assume that sooner or later people, countries are going to figure out their self-interest. There's a whole lot between Moscow and Washington that the Russians need. It won't work if we go in and say, 'Hey, you need us, man; belly up to the bar and pay your dues.' It's not that. It's just that they're either going to make a deal with us on arms because it's in their interest or not."
* * *
On how Russian economic struggles have affected military spending, particularly on nuclear arms:
"They're sitting there looking at their economy, they're looking at our economy, and guess what? It's in their overwhelming military interest to reduce the number of nuclear weapons. All of a sudden, did they have an epiphany and say, 'Hey man, we don't want to threaten our neighbors?' No. They can't sustain it. Does that mean they won't do something stupid? No."
* * *
On how Russia's past efforts to cut off a gas pipeline through Ukraine prompted Europeans to agree on a new pipeline that bypasses Russia:
"Their actions relative to essentially blackmailing a country and a continent on natural gas, what did it produce? You've now got an agreement that no one thought they could have. Now, granted, that pipeline would only provide 5% of all the oil Europe needs."
* * *
On whether Russian leaders will accept the White House's outreach efforts:
"These guys aren't absolute average-intellect ideologues who are clinging to something nobody believes in. They're pretty pragmatic in the end."
* * *
On the need for the U.S. not to overplay its hand with Moscow:
"It is never smart to embarrass an individual or a country when they're dealing with significant loss of face. My dad used to put it another way: Never put another man in a corner where the only way out is over you. It just is not smart."
* * *
On Russia's post-Cold War position in the world:
"It's a very difficult thing to deal with, loss of empire. The empire was not justified, but still, you're sitting there and all of a sudden...this country Russia is in a very different circumstance than it has been any time in the last 40 years, or longer."
* * *
On whether Moscow will assist the U.S. in clamping down on nuclear programs in Iran and North Korea:
"I can see Putin sitting in Moscow saying, 'Jesus Christ, Iran gets the nuclear weapon, who goes first?' Moscow, not Washington."
* * *
On whether he is concerned about Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili living up to promises to strengthen democratic institutions:
"I'm not concerned, but I'm not taking any chances. The opposition believes the only reason he said it was because I was coming. The opposition said to me the only reason he did some of the stuff he did in terms of backing off the demonstrations was because I told him?.It may or may not have had an effect on his judgment."
* * *
On the difficulty of developing democratic institutions in Georgia and other new democracies:
"Part of the process that I think a lot of us forget is that none of these folks ever operated in a system where the basic politics of democracy has been exercised. I mean the raw politics -- not just politics in institutions, but politics in -- you do that, you're likely to get this response."
* * *
On criticisms that President Saakashvili has illustrated authoritarian impulses:
"He has the impulses of what was the Rose Revolution. It was:,'We're in the street, you get you're a** out of office, or we're going to do something.' That was a democratic moment, [but] it wasn't a democratic moment. It was a cry for freedom, and it was a demonstration of a total rejection of the other government. It's a leap from there to say, 'Here's how democratic institutions work'."
* * *
On whether democracy can take hold in Georgia:
"Am I worried about these guys not establishing a democracy? What worries me most is they don't understand how to establish democracy."
Hold on a minute. When we act in a militaristic manner we are American Cowboys. Now when we dont do just that now Europeans are shaking in their boots and dropping their man-purses. Cant we just tell Europe to go to hell?
I thought this was Hillary Clinton's Job!!!!
I thought this was Hillary Clinton's Job!!!!
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
Has anyone - ever- been able to shut Joe Biden up? The Russians are absolutely furious and we just opened up a diplomatic shit storm.
Troubled by falling oil prices, with a corruption-ridden banking system and failing courts, Russia has seen the steepest swing from growth into recession of any major economy during the financial crisis. How does Russia like to settle internal issues? Through external adventurism. Guess what that means now that Biden has kicked some sand in their face.
Troubled by falling oil prices, with a corruption-ridden banking system and failing courts, Russia has seen the steepest swing from growth into recession of any major economy during the financial crisis. How does Russia like to settle internal issues? Through external adventurism. Guess what that means now that Biden has kicked some sand in their face.
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
Not quite. Belarus is a totalitarian state of the old Stalinist style and is an irritant to both Russia and the West.
In 1994, a little-known collective farm manager ran for the Belarusian presidency. His reactionary Soviet-style platform and flamboyant populism caused the Russian government at the time to dismiss him as a Zhirinovsky-like joker. But Alexander Lukashenko won, and despite Soviet-style economics, a reputation in the West as a ruthless dictator and in Moscow as a troublemaker, he continues to rule Belarus to this day.
The Soviet-style economy, which had long exhausted its potential in Russia, the Caucasus and Central Asia, was still quite effective in Belarus when Lukashenko became its president. The political foundation is the West's irrational fear of a possible revival of the Soviet Union.
Belarus was the most conservative and relatively affluent republic of the Soviet Union. Hard-working Belarusians, who have become urban dwellers in relatively recent times, could not understand why their brothers in neighboring Russia destroyed the system that gave them enough bread and hot water. Russia's hasty - and therefore unsuccessful - privatization campaign of 1991-1995 only strengthened Belarusians' convictions.
Television, which Lukashenko has tightly controlled since 1995, compounded the people's fears by showing life in Russia as negatively as their Western colleagues did. But Western television ascribed the difficulties to lack of reform, while Belarusian television blamed them on reforms, thereby encouraging the people to support their conservative president.
In 2009, a serious diplomatic row erupted between the two countries. President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko accused Russia of offering a $500 million loan on the condition that Belarus recognize Abkhazia on South Ossetia. Lukashenko declared that instead of Russia, Belarus should "look for happiness in other parts of the planet." Commenting on the close military cooperation between the two countries, Lukashenko likened Belarus' 10 million people as a human shield for Russia against the West, a service that he said "was not free."
One of the main reasons for the political longevity of the Belarusian system is the multi-vector nature of its foreign policy. Lukashenko keeps threatening the West with the prospect of surrendering his country's sovereignty to Russia, while simultaneously telling Russia that it will embrace the West. As a result, both forgive him his authoritarian style of government and try to involve Belarus in their sphere of influence. Russia supplies economic assistance, while the West has several times lifted the fence of isolation from around Belarus, the last occasion very recently.
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