Center channel - such a thing as too big?

[vi edit]

I currently have a 10 year old Wharfedale setup that I grabbed off of Ubid for dirt cheap. The center is matched to the fronts, but it's really underwhelming. Sound is very "tinny" and just flat. I really like the mains though. They are a 3 way floor standing (Sapphire 89's I think) that are just a really warm and mellow sound that I enjoy. So I likely won't upgrade those for now.

My friend just got a Polk setup from Outpost (R50's and the CSR center) and I thought the center sounded pretty good for $80. So I was sort of looking around at the Polk line.

My local AmericanTV is having a big sell off of their floor models/open box items. I found a Polk CSi5 on sale for $199. It's normally like a $400 center channel.

Only thing is that it's a monster of a speaker. 24" wide, by 8" high, by almost 14" deep.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homea...ndividual/center/csi5/

I've got the room for it on the shelf above the TV...but will it just completely dominate everything else? I was looking at the CSi3 which is a couple bucks cheaper, but significantly smaller.

Money being somewhat equal, is there any major disadvantage going for the behemoth sized one?

 

[dandragonrage]

If you don't like the center, run a phantom center - that is, don't use a center. It's not at all necessary if you're sitting between your fronts. Getting a different brand center will make the sound from it different and it won't mix well with your current mains.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: dandragonrage
If you don't like the center, run a phantom center - that is, don't use a center. It's not at all necessary if you're sitting between your fronts. Getting a different brand center will make the sound from it different and it won't mix well with your current mains.

Phantom isn't really possible because of viewing angles. We often times sit off center so I like a dedicated speaker in the middle to bring a focus to the sound.

As for it being a different brand, I know it wouldn't match up, but at least the speakers are of similar materials/styles. It's not like I'm dropping a Klipsch in with some B&W's.

 

[CalvinHobbes]

I say go for it, the center is the most important speaker for films IMO.

 

[PurdueRy]

I own the CSi3. It's big, yes. But you get over it quickly. It sounds good and the CSi5 really isn't that much different than the CSi3. Either would be fine.

I picked mine up NIB off ebay. I think I paid about $127 which was a steal.

I would go with this over the CSi5 personally.

 

[EvilYoda]

Seems perfectly fine to me.

 

[Tiamat]

You arent' going to have smooth tonality across the front if your listen to MC SACD etc, but it seems that doesnt matter to you.

BTW, there is no such thing as a center channel to big as long as its smaller than the mains

1
2
3

I would say the center you are looking at is tiny.

 

[EvilYoda]

Originally posted by: Tiamat
You arent' going to have smooth tonality across the front if your listen to MC SACD etc, but it seems that doesnt matter to you.

BTW, there is no such thing as a center channel to big as long as its smaller than the mains

1
2
3

I would say the center you are looking at is tiny.

You reminded me of my old Paradigm system...it was only the older reference series, but man is it nice not having to worry about the center. or surrounds.

<--happy with 2.1

 

[dandragonrage]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
As for it being a different brand, I know it wouldn't match up, but at least the speakers are of similar materials/styles. It's not like I'm dropping a Klipsch in with some B&W's.

Unless you've heard them, I'd not make that decision. Some people think that they just need to match the material of the tweeter - this is not true. There are plenty of silk tweeters that can sound as bright or brighter than metal dome tweeters.

I built my own speakers and I actually matched the series of tweeter to my Onix Reference speakers. They use Vifa XT25s. I used Vifa XT19s.

I don't know how Polk CSi sounds. Polk has several lines and they all have a very different sound. Some are bright, some are very laid back.

 

[Rubycon]

No such thing as overkill on center channel.

Text

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
No such thing as overkill on center channel.

Text

Is that aluminum foil I see?

 

[Eug]

Personally, I'd have to side on the aesthetics side a bit here. There IS the possibility of "too big" depending on your tastes.

I personally went with a physically smaller centre in my living room, simply because I could hide it better. A great big centre would have to go on top of the cabinet, but a smaller one could fit inside it. See here.

OTOH, I have a moderately large centre channel in my dedicated home theatre.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Is that aluminum foil I see?

flash glare

 

[spikespiegal]

I have a WAY better suggestion that will sound WAY better.

Buddy of mine used to do high end HT installations....by "high-end" I'm talking customers that can afford $50k installations - low end. After he got disgruntled with his job (we all get bored) he started telling me many of the secrets they used. His method for solving center channel problems as talked about here is not well known in the home market, but it's absurdly common sense and works with any speaker line or amp. I've since helped several people upgrade their HT systems using the same trick, and end results were always an improvement over the typical center channel set-up.

Here's the problem: Most people use a single speaker for the center channel in their home HT systems. However, when's the last time you've been to a IMAX using a single speaker, or listened to a really good stereo recording with just your center speaker? Well...you don't, because it sounds stupid with just a single speaker. Well, a typical movie soundtrack is 60-70% center channel information, so having a single center speaker is just as bad. In some respects, using left-center-right speakers up front is actually WORSE than listening to the same movie in stereo or phantom.

Problem is most AV Receivers don't have options for multiple center channels, or you can't assign them anyways. You most likely have Left-Center-Right outs, correct? No problem-o.

Here's what you do to get a bangin' center channel with some nads to it that doesn't sound SMALLER than your main: when you piece out your HT system, do NOT get the center channel speaker. Get a pair of biggest bookshelf or satellite speakers that come in that same speaker line as your mains because the drivers and cross-overs will be closely matched. Next, set up your system so that those dual centers are on either side of your display, or (this is really cool) above and below if you have a really big projection.

So, how do you wire those dual centers without using an amp capable of running dual centers? Your single center channel, Best-Buy amp does fine. Just wire the two center channel speaker in *series*, and flip one of the leads out of phase. This results in a center channel that will sound like it's coming from the entire screen, bigger than hell, matches the mains in terms of timbre, and sounds awesome. First time I did this with a rather low end Athena ensamble I almost hit the floor.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I have a WAY better suggestion that will sound WAY better.

Buddy of mine used to do high end HT installations....by "high-end" I'm talking customers that can afford $50k installations - low end. After he got disgruntled with his job (we all get bored) he started telling me many of the secrets they used. His method for solving center channel problems as talked about here is not well known in the home market, but it's absurdly common sense and works with any speaker line or amp. I've since helped several people upgrade their HT systems using the same trick, and end results were always an improvement over the typical center channel set-up.

Here's the problem: Most people use a single speaker for the center channel in their home HT systems. However, when's the last time you've been to a IMAX using a single speaker, or listened to a really good stereo recording with just your center speaker? Well...you don't, because it sounds stupid with just a single speaker. Well, a typical movie soundtrack is 60-70% center channel information, so having a single center speaker is just as bad. In some respects, using left-center-right speakers up front is actually WORSE than listening to the same movie in stereo or phantom.

Problem is most AV Receivers don't have options for multiple center channels, or you can't assign them anyways. You most likely have Left-Center-Right outs, correct? No problem-o.

Here's what you do to get a bangin' center channel with some nads to it that doesn't sound SMALLER than your main: when you piece out your HT system, do NOT get the center channel speaker. Get a pair of biggest bookshelf or satellite speakers that come in that same speaker line as your mains because the drivers and cross-overs will be closely matched. Next, set up your system so that those dual centers are on either side of your display, or (this is really cool) above and below if you have a really big projection.

So, how do you wire those dual centers without using an amp capable of running dual centers? Your single center channel, Best-Buy amp does fine. Just wire the two center channel speaker in *series*, and flip one of the leads out of phase. This results in a center channel that will sound like it's coming from the entire screen, bigger than hell, matches the mains in terms of timbre, and sounds awesome. First time I did this with a rather low end Athena ensamble I almost hit the floor.

One thing you failed to cover in your idea is the problem with lobbing and comb filtering when two mono sources are outputting the same signal at the same time while they are farther than 1/2 wavelength of their crossover frequency from each other. Your proposed setup is even more worse than the already terrible horizontal MTM designs in these respects. I'm just stating the obvious in-room acoustic facts, not trying to ruin your parade.

 

[spikespiegal]

Agree......first thing I brught up as a caveat when my friend mentioned it.

Told him he was full of crap also. Then I tried it.....

The comb problem is obvious in phase, especially in a small room. That's why you flip the phase of one speaker. Problem then goes away, and the center channel 'blooms' to fill the area between them (the screen) with *no* lobing problems. I'm not trying to create a di appolito driver array with narrow, vertical lobe. BTW - I've heard many, many vertical MTM arrays and haven't cared for them. Usefull in a room with a lot of bad problems, but irritating otherwise.

Movie theaters have been using multiple center channels behind and entirely across the stretch of screen long before digital was able to correct any house issues. If you want to listen to a single speaker 'squawking at you in mono and localizing all dialogue and center channel information to a single point on your front wall like my Grandpa's 1972 Sylvania TV speaker, that's not my problem.