Census question- SCOTUS says nope nope nope

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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
Well alrighty the judge in SDNY court handling the case appears to be quite unamused at the government's motion to switch out their team for totally different lawyers and has denied it pending sworn affidavits from each lawyer about why they can't proceed, notice that they may be subject to motions for sanction, and that they have to remain available to the court.

Good, because it really looks like the DOJs strategy here was just to change out lawyers so they could attempt a new set of arguments without having to defend their pervious ones, then repeat as needed.
The court is right that if they allowed the change a motion for continuance would have been before the court instantly with the argument that the new team needs time to prepare.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
1,629
136
Good, because it really looks like the DOJs strategy here was just to change out lawyers so they could attempt a new set of arguments without having to defend their pervious ones, then repeat as needed.
The court is right that if they allowed the change a motion for continuance would have been before the court instantly with the argument that the new team needs time to prepare.

The best part of this is that the DOJ pushed the court for a speedy trial and appeals process because the printing of the census had to start no later than the end of June. Changing out lawyers now would further delay the resolution of this, contrary to what the DOJ had been arguing. Word is now that DOJ attorneys are resigning rather than making the ridiculous arguments in court that Trump/Barr are giving them. It's not just that Barr wants a new legal team in court, it's that the team he now has is refusing to change their arguments to the court and risk sanctions against themselves.

Barr is destroying the DOJ in turning it into Felonious D's personal law firm.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
The best part of this is that the DOJ pushed the court for a speedy trial and appeals process because the printing of the census had to start no later than the end of June. Changing out lawyers now would further delay the resolution of this, contrary to what the DOJ had been arguing. Word is now that DOJ attorneys are resigning rather than making the ridiculous arguments in court that Trump/Barr are giving them. It's not just that Barr wants a new legal team in court, it's that the team he now has is refusing to change their arguments to the court and risk sanctions against themselves.

Barr is destroying the DOJ in turning it into Felonious D's personal law firm.

Fascists always tear down the institutions of democracy in order to take control.

"I am your voice" "I alone can fix it" "I will restore law & order"- right after I demolish it.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,649
2,925
136
Damn liberal activist judges, preventing the holy employees of God's own Chosen President from enacting God's will of lying to the Court so that His favored White people can maintain their stranglehold on this holy Christian nation.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Nice. Judge says 'like hell you're swapping out your legal team.'

Team Treason can eat a bag of dicks

"Defendants provide no reasons, let alone 'satisfactory reasons,' for the substitution of counsel," wrote District Judge Jesse Furman"

It's gotta be great when the head of your own dept puts you in the spot where you have to resign to maintain any integrity at all. It's one way Barr can get his new legal team.

I figure they're just blowing smoke & creating a distraction from the shitty way they're dealing with migrants, talking shit the whole time.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
You all might find this interesting -- https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/19/the-trump-administration-often-loses-in-court-heres-why/

WASHINGTON – Federal judges have ruled against the Trump administration at least 63 times over the past two years, an extraordinary record of legal defeat that has stymied large parts of the president’s agenda on the environment, immigration and other matters.


In case after case, judges have rebuked Trump officials for failing to follow the most basic rules of governance, including providing legitimate explanations for shifts in policy, supported by facts and, where required, public input.


Many of the cases are in early stages and subject to reversal. For example, the U.S. Supreme Court permitted a version of President Donald Trump’s ban on travelers from certain predominantly Muslim nations to take effect after lower-court judges blocked the travel ban as discriminatory.

But whether or not the administration ultimately prevails, the rulings so far paint a portrait of a government rushing to implement sweeping changes in policy without regard for longstanding rules against arbitrary and capricious behavior.


“What they have consistently been doing is short-circuiting the process,” said Georgetown Law School’s William Buzbee, an expert on administrative law who has studied Trump’s record. In the regulatory cases, Buzbee said, “They don’t even come close” to explaining their actions, “making it very easy for the courts to reject them because they’re not doing their homework.”


Two-thirds of the cases accuse the Trump administration of violating the Administrative Procedure Act (APA), a 73-year-old law that forms the primary bulwark against arbitrary rule. The normal “win rate” for the government in such cases is about 70 percent, according to analysts and studies. But as of mid-January, a database maintained by the Institute for Policy Integrity at the New York University School of Law shows Trump’s win rate at about 6 percent.


Seth Jaffe, a Boston-based environmental lawyer who represents corporations and had been looking forward to deregulation under Trump, said he has been frustrated by the administration’s failure to deliver.


“I’ve spent 30 years in the private sector complaining about the excesses of environmental regulation,” Jaffe said, but “this administration has given regulatory reform a bad name.”

Some errors are so basic that Jaffe said he has to wonder whether agency officials are more interested in announcing policy shifts than in actually implementing them. “It’s not just that they’re losing. But they’re being so nuts about it,” he said, adding that the losses in court have “set regulatory reform back for a period of time.”


Contributing to the losing record has been Trump himself. His reported comments about “s—hole countries,” for example, helped convince U.S. District Judge Edward Chen in San Francisco that the administration’s decision to end “temporary protected status” for hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Central America, Haiti and Sudan was motivated by racial and ethnic bias.


At least a dozen decisions have involved Trump’s tweets or comments.


The Justice Department, which defends federal agencies in court, declined to comment. The White House also declined to comment.


Matthew Collette, who served as the deputy director of the Justice Department’s Civil Division appellate staff until his departure in October, said that in his 30 years at the department, he had not seen so many losses for a presidential administration in such a short time. “I don’t think there’s any doubt about that,” he said.

Trump has blamed his losses on “Obama judges” in the West Coast states that make up the 9th Circuit. While 29 setbacks have come from 9th Circuit judges, the trend is national, with 34 originating elsewhere, particularly in the District of Columbia Circuit, according to a count by The Washington Post.


Democratic appointees, many of them tapped by Presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton, are responsible for 45 decisions. Republican appointees dating back to President Ronald Reagan issued the other rulings. Magistrate judges, who are not appointed by presidents, made three of the decisions.


On major issues on which multiple judges have ruled, there has been little disagreement among them, no matter where the judges are located or who appointed them.


Four judges, for instance, have rejected the decision to rescind the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which has protected from deportation nearly 700,000 people brought to the United States as children. All four judges said essentially the same thing: that the government’s stated reason for ending DACA – that it was unlawful – was “virtually unexplained,” as U.S. District Judge John D. Bates, an appointee of President George W. Bush in Washington, D.C., said in an April opinion.A second explanation – that DACA creates a “litigation risk” – was derided by U.S. District Judge William Alsup in California as mere “spin.”

Three judges have invalidated the attempt to add a question about citizenship to the 2020 Census, the latest being U.S. District Judge Richard Seeborg in San Francisco on March 6. All rejected as unbelievable Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross’s explanation that the move was intended to improve enforcement of the Voting Rights Act.

The matter is now pending before the Supreme Court. The Commerce Department declined to comment.


In the cases challenging termination of temporary protected status, the Department of Homeland Security claimed it was not actually changing policy and was therefore immune from review under the APA. But internal documents contradicted that claim, and Chen, an Obama appointee, blocked the shift in an Oct. 3 decision.


Michael Bars, a spokesman for U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, which handles determinations for temporary protected status, declined to comment on ongoing litigation. He added that the agency is committed to “faithfully executing the law.”


Every administration loses cases because of APA violations. Obama’s most notable defeat came in 2015, when a Texas judge blocked his plan to protect from deportation illegal immigrants whose children are Americans or lawful permanent residents.


Still, administrations of both parties have historically won most of these cases, in part because judges tend to defer to the federal government, legal experts said – making Trump’s record of failure virtually unprecedented.


The Trump administration’s style of policymaking has led to some awkward moments in court. Take the many cases challenging the Department of Health and Human Services over its decision to end some $200 million in grants to 81 teen-pregnancy-prevention programs.


The decision was taken – abruptly and without explanation – soon after the June 2017 appointment of Valerie Huber to serve as senior adviser to then-HHS Secretary Tom Price. Huber, a leader of the abstinence-only sex education movement – which she prefers to call “sexual risk avoidance” – had lobbied to eliminate funding for the programs, which, in her view, “normalized teen sex.”


The decision threatened to devastate the budgets of scores of teen-pregnancy programs across the nation, many of which quickly filed suit. In its defense, HHS argued that ending the grants did not represent a policy change and therefore required no explanation under the APA.


During a hearing in Washington last April , U.S. District Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson expressed incredulity about the manner in which the agency had acted. Can an agency “suddenly say ‘too bad, so sad,’ ” Jackson asked a lawyer for the government, and cut off money without cause? When the lawyer answered yes, the judge called the situation “weird” and ordered the grants restored.

There is a lot more at the above link....
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,694
15,948
146
You all might find this interesting -- https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/19/the-trump-administration-often-loses-in-court-heres-why/

WASHINGTON – Federal judges have ruled against the Trump administration at least 63 times over the past two years, an extraordinary record of legal defeat that has stymied large parts of the president’s agenda on the environment, immigration and other matters.


In case after case, judges have rebuked Trump officials for failing to follow the most basic rules of governance, including providing legitimate explanations for shifts in policy, supported by facts and, where required, public input.


Many of the cases are in early stages and subject to reversal. For example, the U.S. Supreme Court permitted a version of President Donald Trump’s ban on travelers from certain predominantly Muslim nations to take effect after lower-court judges blocked the travel ban as discriminatory.

But whether or not the administration ultimately prevails, the rulings so far paint a portrait of a government rushing to implement sweeping changes in policy without regard for longstanding rules against arbitrary and capricious behavior.


“What they have consistently been doing is short-circuiting the process,” said Georgetown Law School’s William Buzbee, an expert on administrative law who has studied Trump’s record. In the regulatory cases, Buzbee said, “They don’t even come close” to explaining their actions, “making it very easy for the courts to reject them because they’re not doing their homework.”


Two-thirds of the cases accuse the Trump administration of violating the Administrative Procedure Act (APA), a 73-year-old law that forms the primary bulwark against arbitrary rule. The normal “win rate” for the government in such cases is about 70 percent, according to analysts and studies. But as of mid-January, a database maintained by the Institute for Policy Integrity at the New York University School of Law shows Trump’s win rate at about 6 percent.


Seth Jaffe, a Boston-based environmental lawyer who represents corporations and had been looking forward to deregulation under Trump, said he has been frustrated by the administration’s failure to deliver.


“I’ve spent 30 years in the private sector complaining about the excesses of environmental regulation,” Jaffe said, but “this administration has given regulatory reform a bad name.”

Some errors are so basic that Jaffe said he has to wonder whether agency officials are more interested in announcing policy shifts than in actually implementing them. “It’s not just that they’re losing. But they’re being so nuts about it,” he said, adding that the losses in court have “set regulatory reform back for a period of time.”


Contributing to the losing record has been Trump himself. His reported comments about “s—hole countries,” for example, helped convince U.S. District Judge Edward Chen in San Francisco that the administration’s decision to end “temporary protected status” for hundreds of thousands of immigrants from Central America, Haiti and Sudan was motivated by racial and ethnic bias.


At least a dozen decisions have involved Trump’s tweets or comments.


The Justice Department, which defends federal agencies in court, declined to comment. The White House also declined to comment.


Matthew Collette, who served as the deputy director of the Justice Department’s Civil Division appellate staff until his departure in October, said that in his 30 years at the department, he had not seen so many losses for a presidential administration in such a short time. “I don’t think there’s any doubt about that,” he said.

Trump has blamed his losses on “Obama judges” in the West Coast states that make up the 9th Circuit. While 29 setbacks have come from 9th Circuit judges, the trend is national, with 34 originating elsewhere, particularly in the District of Columbia Circuit, according to a count by The Washington Post.


Democratic appointees, many of them tapped by Presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton, are responsible for 45 decisions. Republican appointees dating back to President Ronald Reagan issued the other rulings. Magistrate judges, who are not appointed by presidents, made three of the decisions.


On major issues on which multiple judges have ruled, there has been little disagreement among them, no matter where the judges are located or who appointed them.


Four judges, for instance, have rejected the decision to rescind the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which has protected from deportation nearly 700,000 people brought to the United States as children. All four judges said essentially the same thing: that the government’s stated reason for ending DACA – that it was unlawful – was “virtually unexplained,” as U.S. District Judge John D. Bates, an appointee of President George W. Bush in Washington, D.C., said in an April opinion.A second explanation – that DACA creates a “litigation risk” – was derided by U.S. District Judge William Alsup in California as mere “spin.”

Three judges have invalidated the attempt to add a question about citizenship to the 2020 Census, the latest being U.S. District Judge Richard Seeborg in San Francisco on March 6. All rejected as unbelievable Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross’s explanation that the move was intended to improve enforcement of the Voting Rights Act.

The matter is now pending before the Supreme Court. The Commerce Department declined to comment.


In the cases challenging termination of temporary protected status, the Department of Homeland Security claimed it was not actually changing policy and was therefore immune from review under the APA. But internal documents contradicted that claim, and Chen, an Obama appointee, blocked the shift in an Oct. 3 decision.


Michael Bars, a spokesman for U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, which handles determinations for temporary protected status, declined to comment on ongoing litigation. He added that the agency is committed to “faithfully executing the law.”


Every administration loses cases because of APA violations. Obama’s most notable defeat came in 2015, when a Texas judge blocked his plan to protect from deportation illegal immigrants whose children are Americans or lawful permanent residents.


Still, administrations of both parties have historically won most of these cases, in part because judges tend to defer to the federal government, legal experts said – making Trump’s record of failure virtually unprecedented.


The Trump administration’s style of policymaking has led to some awkward moments in court. Take the many cases challenging the Department of Health and Human Services over its decision to end some $200 million in grants to 81 teen-pregnancy-prevention programs.


The decision was taken – abruptly and without explanation – soon after the June 2017 appointment of Valerie Huber to serve as senior adviser to then-HHS Secretary Tom Price. Huber, a leader of the abstinence-only sex education movement – which she prefers to call “sexual risk avoidance” – had lobbied to eliminate funding for the programs, which, in her view, “normalized teen sex.”


The decision threatened to devastate the budgets of scores of teen-pregnancy programs across the nation, many of which quickly filed suit. In its defense, HHS argued that ending the grants did not represent a policy change and therefore required no explanation under the APA.


During a hearing in Washington last April , U.S. District Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson expressed incredulity about the manner in which the agency had acted. Can an agency “suddenly say ‘too bad, so sad,’ ” Jackson asked a lawyer for the government, and cut off money without cause? When the lawyer answered yes, the judge called the situation “weird” and ordered the grants restored.

There is a lot more at the above link....

Conservatives like to talk a big game but in truth anything that requires hard work or intelligence or even basic competence is generally just too much for em.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,904
31,433
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Conservatives like to talk a big game but in truth anything that requires hard work or intelligence or even basic competence is generally just too much for em.

This is the central lesson of the boomers that gave us St Reagan. It is only thus. The more they worship his treasonous corpse and everything it represents, the more this country suffers.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
This is the central lesson of the boomers that gave us St Reagan. It is only thus. The more they worship his treasonous corpse and everything it represents, the more this country suffers.

Please. The youngest Boomers weren't old enough to vote in 1980. The oldest were only 34. The problem of younger people not voting was the same then as it is today.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
Conservatives like to talk a big game but in truth anything that requires hard work or intelligence or even basic competence is generally just too much for em.

What it really comes down to is corruption. They do not believe that they should have to follow the rules. They want others to follow the rules, but somehow think they should not have to. The Republican party holds to no ethics or morals. This can clearly be seen in how often they use whataboutism. Ethical and moral people don't excuse their bad actions because someone else is also unethical. Moral people know that two wrongs don't make a right.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,948
3,939
136
Well alrighty the judge in SDNY court handling the case appears to be quite unamused at the government's motion to switch out their team for totally different lawyers and has denied it pending sworn affidavits from each lawyer about why they can't proceed, notice that they may be subject to motions for sanction, and that they have to remain available to the court.


View attachment 8195


View attachment 8197

My girlfriend edits court filings and she laughed at two things with the ruling.

1. "Patently deficient" is judge code for "counsel has to be a moron to file this and/or has no idea what they're doing."
2. Footnote 2 indicates the attorneys didn't even file the petition with the court correctly.

The best people.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
My girlfriend edits court filings and she laughed at two things with the ruling.

1. "Patently deficient" is judge code for "counsel has to be a moron to file this and/or has no idea what they're doing."
2. Footnote 2 indicates the attorneys didn't even file the petition with the court correctly.

The best people.

"Why do I want to withdraw, your honor? Because my superiors have put me in an impossible position of trying to sustain this farce."
 
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esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
25,233
6,287
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Please. The youngest Boomers weren't old enough to vote in 1980. The oldest were only 34. The problem of younger people not voting was the same then as it is today.
The ones born in 1962 were. The voting age was lowered to 18 in 1971.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
136
The ones born in 1962 were. The voting age was lowered to 18 in 1971.

He is not saying that they couldn't vote, he is saying that they were to young to want to. We have a real problem in America that few people under the age of 40 votes.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
25,233
6,287
146
He is not saying that they couldn't vote, he is saying that they were to young to want to. We have a real problem in America that few people under the age of 40 votes.
That's incorrect. He said:
"The youngest Boomers weren't old enough to vote in 1980 "
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
25,233
6,287
146
He is not saying that they couldn't vote, he is saying that they were to young to want to. We have a real problem in America that few people under the age of 40 votes.
I will agree that the absolute youngest boomers (1963-64) were too young to vote.
I will agree that getting the youngest folks to vote probably was the same as it is now.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,169
47,393
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The federal judge in Maryland has also denied the DOJs motion to switch out their legal team until they explain themselves. Also that the representations they made to the court will still count even if there is a new team...



MikeScarcella_2019-Jul-10.png
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Yes, that is correct but the younger ones from 1962 and earlier could vote.

I never said otherwise. Relatively few boomers were outside the 18-29 demographic in 1980, however. They mostly didn't vote at all, like every other generational cohort since then & likely before.

http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/demographics

The second chart is the reason that the GOP has become so desperate. Their strength is in playing to White fears & racial unease.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,827
6,782
126
Conservatives like to talk a big game but in truth anything that requires hard work or intelligence or even basic competence is generally just too much for em.
I sort of thought they were so used to getting their way by lying to unsophisticated people they had no idea that judges have years of training dealing with liars and can spot them a mile away.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
I sort of thought they were so used to getting their way by lying to unsophisticated people they had no idea that judges have years of training dealing with liars and can spot them a mile away.

The sad part is that 4 Justices didn't officially care whether they were lying or not. I figure they knew the real reason all along, which is to under count immigrants, particularly undocumented ones. When the truth is an impediment to winning the GOP just goes post-truth.