Cel2, P3, or Athlon/Duron?

[bluemax]

I'm toying with the idea of a new processor/mobo. (Currently a Cel450A + BH6 + 128MB PC-100)
Now, a Cel566 would be decent with the least amount of work and reselling old parts... but an Athlon or P3 is a better performer.
Now, I know that the P3 should have PC-133 if I'm planning to overclock, but what about the Athlon/Duron? Dos it need PC-100 or 133 to start? And what about overclocking it? For that matter, doesn't overclocking an Athlon/Duron require some $30 addon daughterboard or something wacky? Sounds terrible compared to jumpers or softmenus...
Your opinions very welcome!

Edit = title

 

[Vegito]

P3 requires PC133 or better to overclock

NEW Athlon(Thunderbird)/Duron does not need GFD anymore, newer MB uses softmenu. Athlon uses PC100, does not need 133 unless you want to get the newer 266DDR bus version.

AMD does cost a little more but performance is as better then a Celeron (even when oc-ed).

As good as a Intel P3, and in some cases.. better.. some cases.. slower.. it's almost the same.

 

[AMB]

I would get a Duron 700MHz and perhaps the New Abit KT7

 

[AMB]

I hate 56k dial-ups

 

[Ulysses]

1. If you are buying RAM you should specify PC133 CAS 2 SDRAM, like this:
http://www.mushkin.com/cgi-bin/Mushkin.filereader?396648c4105fb470273fcdaa9b0206db+EN/products/990489.
It will work with most any modern board and CPU. You can also use your PC100 memory. The system will accept it, but it may limit your overclocking, of course.

2. You might only replace your CPU with a P3 Coppermine of the cB0 stepping and try to run your BH6 at its max FSB, which I think is 124. If that won't work then get the PC133 and hope for better results. With the latest BIOS the BH6 is good to go with a P3 up to 850 MHz, IIRC. There is quite a difference between a Celery 450 at whatever overclock and the Coppermines at 600 and above even not overclocked.

3. Don't throw over your BH6, which is a good BX board, for an Athlon platform. It will cost too much and there's really no or little gain.

 

[bluemax]

That's what I like to hear. Honestly, I'm not sure how good my RAM is... I should bump my Celeron 300 above the 100mhz FSB to see how high it'll go! If I can get a good deal on a Pentium3 600E (SECC 100FSB) I'd be one happy camper! Higher processors will simply be FAR out of my price range... this has to be a CHEAP upgrade!
I can always bump that chip up to whatever my ram+board will allow... that's give better performance than the Cel566, but cost a fair bit more- $340CDN for the 600E chip vs. $205CDN for the Cel566 + adapter. I could get the Athlon 750 for $335 but I'd need a new board....
What do you guys think?

 

[Ulysses]

P.S.

I'm not a Duron or Athlon expert, but I believe that:

The old Athlons comes in a Slot A Card Module and could be overclocked by increasing the FSB in the usual manner. Like P3's their multipliers were locked, but, unlike the P3's, the old Athlon's multiplier could be changed by breaking open the black plastic cartridge and attaching a Golden Fingers Device (GFD). Voltage could also be varied in the BIOS or the GFD.

The new Athlons and Durons do not come in the Card Module form (well, some of the new Athlons may be available that way, and those will work with the old GFD's, it is expected). The new form is a bare chip that just plugs in the CPU socket. The overclocking is all controlled on the mobo or through the BIOS. It is expected that on better boards the FSB, multiplier and core voltage will all be adjustable.

The CPU multiplier cannot be adjusted for Intel's currently available CPU's.

P.P.S.
If you get a P3 get the FC-PGA with a 'slocket' adapter. The FC is more versatile - later you might want to replace your board with something like those that are just coming out and based on the Intel 815E chipset.

 

[Ulysses]

Sharky Extreme shows OEM prices for 600E at $184US and $221US for 700 - pretty close actually.

If you get a P3 be sure, as I said, to specify a cB0 stepping and verify that by checking at http://support.intel.com/support/processors/sspec/p3p.htm before buying.

Good luck.

 

[Napalm]

If you already have a decent BX motherboard and you are stuck with PC100 memory then the choice should be obvious. Get yourself a C2 566 and overclock the snot out of it.

Napalm

 

[dszd0g]

forcesho, Athlon can use PC100. However, with the KX133 or KT133 chipset it can also use PC133, VC100, or VC133 also.

Ulysses, while any newer EV6 bus motherboard (Athlon/Thunderbird/Duron) allows one to overclock the bus, the EV6 bus does not overclock nearly as well as the GTL+ bus. As far as I've heard no one using off the shelf hardware has been able to get the EV6 bus past 110/220Mhz. This means that overclocking the bus does not allow one to overclock the AMD chips to their fullest. The GFD (Gold Finger Device) for the Athlon allowed the multiplier to be unlocked and the speed of the processor controlled directly. With KT133 mobos one can not use a GFD, and one will need a mobo that allows one to unlock the multiplier. There have also been preliminary work done on how to modify the processor itself to change the multiplier, but I am not sure if anyone has published actual "this really works."

In otherwords, if you want to overclock a Thunderbird or a Duron pick your mobo carefully. None of the KT133 motherboards as of last I checked on the market support unlocking the multiplier. The Asus A7V which is supposed to be released very shortly in the prerelease version had dip switches for adjusting the voltage and multiplier. Rumor has it that the dip switches have been removed and the functionality has been moved to the BIOS. In the prerelease A7V the voltage could only be increased to 1.8V(I believe?) and was thus not a viable platform to overclock the Thunderbird much. We will have to see what the final board can do and if anyone else produces a mobo that gives this functionality and a higher voltage.

 

[da loser]

Just get a Cel2 566 and oc. to 700 at least. Anything else is just wasting money since you already have a bx board. You're not going to notice any difference in regular windows usage or games, maybe if you get a rampage or nv20 or something later you will notice the difference compared with a ghz, but I highly doubt it.

Of course i have no idea what you're using it for and how you like you play games if at all.

If you want to upgrade later wait for the ddr chipsets, no point in wasting any money on a p3 or amd setup.

 

[cdrakejr]

bluemax,

I'm not going to go into a long discussion of pros/cons, just a couple of ideas and then point you to some good articles to give you an idea of what's possible.
Obviously the least expensive option has been pointed out several times already, new Intel cpu using same mb.

If you go the Duron/T-bird route; (pricewatch lows) Duron 600 $76, 650 $105, 700 $148. Abit or Asus mb just being released, price guess $165-175. Total AMD setup @$250 to $325.
Abit and ASUS both have announced that they support cpu multiplier.
http://www.insanehardware.com
I would not recommend spending the extra money for the T-bird, the Duron is just too good a performance buy in comparison. Duron 650 o/cs to 900 no sweat.
Strong rumors that AMD will release next speed grade and up to 40% price drops at end of July.

Wasn't going to get long-winded. Here are some good reviews, the third one is overclocking report for Duron/T-bird, the last one is a list of Socket A boards with links to reviews and specs.

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1261
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q2/000619/index.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q2/000623/index.html
http://www.allhw.com/articles/compendium/athlonmb/default.asp

Good luck!

 

[bluemax]

Thanks a lot guys!
My reasons for needing the speed is because I'm off to college in September for Computer Analasys and Programming. (Man, it took me long enough to get to school, but I'm sure going to appreciate it!!)
That speed is sure gonna' come in handy for compiling programs.
Of course, money is another big issue... Unless someone bought my whole BH6+450A+128MB PC-100 for a decent price, it's not worth upgrading the whole board+RAM. I just wish the Cel566 were a better performer, even if it does overclock to 850 reliably... The P3-600 is almost enough to beat that in the real world... P3-700 for sure! I think low-cost for now though... Cel566 and then get something *GOOD* later, when CPU prices come down, more slotA boards enter the market, and so forth...
Athlon = tempting, Duron = REALLY tempting, but no mobos available, P3 = good but expensive in comparison, Cel566 = decent but much cheaper.
Tough choice, eh?

 

[Tom]

The beauty of the Celeron 2 533a and 566 is they are naturals for overclocking. Since their default bus speed is 66, overclocking them to 100 is relatively easy. It could be argued that since the core of a Celeron 2 is very much like a P3 that running one at 100mhz bus speed is only overclocking in name. Additionally since your other hardware runs fine at 100mhz your not overstressing things. Of course there is some risk in buying a Celeron 533a or 566 that it won't go to 100mhz bus since Intel is only responsible for assuring they run at 66mhz. In my own case I decided it was worth $100 to take the chance and mine runs fine at 850. Of course its possible to buy tested C2s for a small premium.

If you look closely at benchmarks that cdrakejr posted above such as

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1261

you'll see that the Celeron 850/100(which is the natural overclock speed for a 566) performs in most benchmarks comparable to a unoverclocked Duron 700 so I wouldn't say the Celeron 566 is a bad performer.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend a C2 to someone who was looking for a new motherboard too, but it is an excellent upgrade if you've already got a suitable BX board to put it in.