CCNA

[txrandom]

How hard do you think the CCNA is? How long did you study for it? Does being a computer nerd or computer science major help? What are the career benefits of a CCNA? Any advice or tips?

 

[scott916]

I took a class for it last semester, and it's very comprehensive. It's not necessarily that difficult, but there is a LOT of memorization. I'd say you COULD pass it with only reading a book, but having the hardware to work on and learning with hands on experience is invaluable.

 

[necine]

Yep... I studied for about 2 months and failed... I had no idea there were network diagrams on it. Be prepared.

 

[txrandom]

I have about another month to study. I'm picking up a router to test with at the end of the week.

With the company I'll be interning for over the summer, only one person has passed it their first time albeit it's a fairly small company. I don't think they necessarily want me to pass, but just learn a lot of material before jumping into networks and VOIP. I'm trying to hard to pass it my first time around. I won't have to take it for another few years, and it should impress my employer.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I took a course and it's super hard. There's lot of memorization and stuff that don't matter in the real world. Give me a router, switch, RSA appliance, ask me to make a full blown VPN solution with some vlans. No problem, I can look stuff up. But when it comes to tests, you just have to know all the commands offhand + all the theory that really does not matter.

 

[James Bond]

If you haven't been exposed to networking then it will be difficult. Takes most people 6 months+ of studying (several hours a day).

 

[James Bond]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I took a course and it's super hard. There's lot of memorization and stuff that don't matter in the real world. Give me a router, switch, RSA appliance, ask me to make a full blown VPN solution with some vlans. No problem, I can look stuff up. But when it comes to tests, you just have to know all the commands offhand + all the theory that really does not matter.

What did you think was in it that isn't in the real world?

It sounds like you are describing a MS test, not Cisco.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Um...yeah. I bought a self-study book for it. I stopped reading it after a couple of days. Very technical with lots of stuff to remember. I just don't have time to do it at the moment.

I think I could pass with a couple of months study, but it's certainly not an easy paper to pass. I guess thats why it's valued so much.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: James Bond

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I took a course and it's super hard. There's lot of memorization and stuff that don't matter in the real world. Give me a router, switch, RSA appliance, ask me to make a full blown VPN solution with some vlans. No problem, I can look stuff up. But when it comes to tests, you just have to know all the commands offhand + all the theory that really does not matter.

What did you think was in it that isn't in the real world?

It sounds like you are describing a MS test, not Cisco.

I dunno man, the 70-292 exam (upgrade exam from MCSE 2000 to 2003) was a really fucking difficult exam. Take a look online, the fail rate for that paper is over 50% for first time.

But yeah, I'd say looking at it the CCNA exam is even harder.

 

[spidey07]

If you can learn the basics of networking then it won't be hard. That's what it is testing, a basic understanding of the basic principles. You'll have to study and most importantly you'll have to understand. Post in networking forum if you need more help.

The benefit career wise is proving you have that knowledge and depending on your career/level it could mean more money or at the very least more opportunity.

 

[jersiq]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I took a course and it's super hard. There's lot of memorization and stuff that don't matter in the real world. Give me a router, switch, RSA appliance, ask me to make a full blown VPN solution with some vlans. No problem, I can look stuff up. But when it comes to tests, you just have to know all the commands offhand + all the theory that really does not matter.

No offense, but I wouldn't want you troubleshooting my network.
Theory is the underpinning to making informed decisions as to
-Why you are implementing what you are implementing
-Maintaining what you are implementing.

Take spanning tree for example. Most people just brush over the theory, and don't realize how important truly understanding it is until you have an element brought to it's knees with a loop.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I took a course and it's super hard. There's lot of memorization and stuff that don't matter in the real world. *snip* all the theory that really does not matter.

this is ridiculous. im taking cisco courses and theyre not super hard, and if youre interested in taking your career down a networking path, the theory and details *Really* will matter.

if youre just going to be a server/linux guy, you dont need as much knowledge, but honestly, any extra networking knowledge you get can be helpful eventually.

 

[alkemyst]

The latest CCNA is much different than those many are used too. They broke it out to two certs really (CCENT and CCNA) and spread out the material.

I passed in a couple months but I had been doing it a while. My dad took a bit longer, but things that you and I probably take for granted he didn't really know.

If you have no computer/network background...it's going to take a while to lay the ground work.

The length of time really depends on your absorption of material and reading speed. I can suck down 100-200 pages a day after work. I read each book twice then start doing labs/sims. Then I tested.

Getting your CCNA really doesn't make you an engineer though...it shows you can understand the concepts that you are really going to learn in CCNP and beyond. Most find themselves 'lost' even though they pass.

Also don't overdo it..the goal is to go to CCNP and really learn the stuff. This is why Cisco doesn't want scores to be posted...if you score perfect at CCNA it really means you spent too much time studying. The goal is to get out and do it.

If you are choosing a certification route, you are basically distinguishing yourself from that old network guru that can make things hum but can't implement the newest tech or can yet cannot share how he did so.

Just like Software Engineering....not so important perhaps if you are a sole coder for a company and they have no intention to get rid of you nor you leaving. However; grow that team to a dozen or so members and it's important to structure things and 'speak the same language'.

Getting certified also brings tangable benefits to a company that may hire you. Some sales centers hire CCIE's purely for the discounts...

I'd avoid bootcamps though. They are great for someone that knows it all already and needs to know how they'd be tested, but for a total green student they are usually just a waste of cash. The several week courses are much better, but in reality you'd be better off self-studying for CCNA and spending that money for your CCNP.

TreyRandom (oddly close to your handle) here is pretty damn helpful to provide good places that are not considered brain dumps and other bullshit. Too many cheat and too many here even promote it. I don't get that, you cheat your way into a job you cannot do and you will be fired. Maybe they get in under the friends and family plan though and are just dead weight getting paid.

It seems here people make claims that the tests are simple and anyone can do them...yet often don't have the certs yet. On dedicated forums you get the real story, things that many find hard, confusing, etc. Sometimes all it takes is a few pointers and you can see what the author was trying to say.

I am planning on resuming my CCNP as soon as I get some house projects done (painting, completing my office)...

No matter what you do, if you do get books (I recommend checking addall.com and ciscopress/amazon always) go to the publisher's website and get the errata.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I took a course and it's super hard. There's lot of memorization and stuff that don't matter in the real world. *snip* all the theory that really does not matter.

this is ridiculous. im taking cisco courses and theyre not super hard, and if youre interested in taking your career down a networking path, the theory and details *Really* will matter.

if youre just going to be a server/linux guy, you dont need as much knowledge, but honestly, any extra networking knowledge you get can be helpful eventually.

When you pass your tests you can say whether it was hard or not The courses are always easy it seems, just like in college or high school...you get to find out what's up during your final exam

You are right on the theory though...people say it's BS, but if you are going to be a senior engineer or a sales engineer knowing that theory is very important to explain what you are recommending to their in-house teams.

If you are a consulting engineer, they are going to try to tear you apart in front of management. Usually they wish they can do the new rollouts, but it's a manpower or knowledgebase issue. The engineers want to push for the training, the management wants 'stuff' in production today. Sometimes you get trained, sometimes you just administer.

 

[MoPHo]

Took a course in High School that was divided over Junior and Senior year. The format of the test changed the summer in between so there were basics we missed. I think one kid (out of 15) passed it in our class because the focused changed and we had to try and relearn things that we missed. If we had taken the class over one year, it probably would've been a lot different outcome...that and if we didn't install Quake 2 on all the computers and just LAN while the teacher was conducting the lesson...

 

[Red Squirrel]

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I took a course and it's super hard. There's lot of memorization and stuff that don't matter in the real world. Give me a router, switch, RSA appliance, ask me to make a full blown VPN solution with some vlans. No problem, I can look stuff up. But when it comes to tests, you just have to know all the commands offhand + all the theory that really does not matter.

No offense, but I wouldn't want you troubleshooting my network.
Theory is the underpinning to making informed decisions as to
-Why you are implementing what you are implementing
-Maintaining what you are implementing.

Take spanning tree for example. Most people just brush over the theory, and don't realize how important truly understanding it is until you have an element brought to it's knees with a loop.

A lot of it is outdated standards which does not help. I don't care about BRI and thicknet, and there's no point in learning 25 pair color code when I can just look it up in real life. CCNA 1 and 2 were useful, the switch and routing part of 3-4 were, but then all the rest of the theory BS is not going to help you build or troubleshoot a network. Some theory is useful, like knowing how packets work, but some other is useless.

I'd say like at least 40% of the stuff you have to learn by heart is useless. Really, the whole concept of tests is flawed. In real life you can lookup something if you don't know it, and if you do that stuff all day you'll eventually naturally learn some by heart.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel

Originally posted by: jersiq

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I took a course and it's super hard. There's lot of memorization and stuff that don't matter in the real world. Give me a router, switch, RSA appliance, ask me to make a full blown VPN solution with some vlans. No problem, I can look stuff up. But when it comes to tests, you just have to know all the commands offhand + all the theory that really does not matter.

No offense, but I wouldn't want you troubleshooting my network.
Theory is the underpinning to making informed decisions as to
-Why you are implementing what you are implementing
-Maintaining what you are implementing.

Take spanning tree for example. Most people just brush over the theory, and don't realize how important truly understanding it is until you have an element brought to it's knees with a loop.

A lot of it is outdated standards which does not help. I don't care about BRI and thicknet, and there's no point in learning 25 pair color code when I can just look it up in real life. CCNA 1 and 2 were useful, the switch and routing part of 3-4 were, but then all the rest of the theory BS is not going to help you build or troubleshoot a network. Some theory is useful, like knowing how packets work, but some other is useless.

I'd say like at least 40% of the stuff you have to learn by heart is useless. Really, the whole concept of tests is flawed. In real life you can lookup something if you don't know it, and if you do that stuff all day you'll eventually naturally learn some by heart.

When did you do this? Thcknet is no longer tested...most of the current CCNA items are pretty key...it's focusing more on simulation/network setups (OSPF/EIGRP) and some on wireless. ISDN has been dropped from CCNA.

I don't think wiring ethernet was on the CCNA...it's a simple 8 pair though not 25 and there are only two options. I don't know what people find so hard about it. however the idea behind knowing it is if you are without a cable and one is damaged, getting it repaired in the field is sort of critical.

 

[ScottFern]

I went to a boot camp back in February and I flied through the course. I attained near perfects on both CCENT and CCNA exams. I was very disappointed we didn't use real equipment and only a simulator briefly. I do confess I don't feel like I know enough to jump into a Cisco switching and routing environment and just take control. That hands on experience is invaluable in the long run. Sometimes it feels like I was able to just pass a test.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: ScottFern
I went to a boot camp back in February and I flied through the course. I attained near perfects on both CCENT and CCNA exams. I was very disappointed we didn't use real equipment and only a simulator briefly. I do confess I don't feel like I know enough to jump into a Cisco switching and routing environment and just take control. That hands on experience is invaluable in the long run. Sometimes it feels like I was able to just pass a test.

that's really much of CCNA...the CCNP is the real deal though.

CCNA is really more or less weeding out those that simply will not have the aptitude or desire to continue on. You learn the basics and how to configure things at a very basic level.

It's more than enough to run a small office, but not the level to be part of an enterprise team or deploy networks.

many don't realize that administration is very different than planning/deployment.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I don't think wiring ethernet was on the CCNA...it's a simple 8 pair though not 25 and there are only two options. I don't know what people find so hard about it. however the idea behind knowing it is if you are without a cable and one is damaged, getting it repaired in the field is sort of critical.

It's 4 pairs, 8 wires.

Straight through, crossover, rollover, and then the A/B standards of those mean more than just 2 options.

That being said, if you know the two standards and know the 3 primary cables used you'll only need to know 4 different things. The A and B standard, then the 2 non-standard types (rollover, and crossover). Alkemyst is right though, that it is pretty dang simple.

 

[sactwnguy]

The CCNA is not a hard test, it covers only basic networking knowledge but for some reason hireing manager give it a lot of weight. To be fair though if you have zero networking background I can see how it could be tough to get the concepts. I have passed it twice with perfect scores, once in 2000 and again in 2005 when my CCNP expired. From what i remember of the test knowing spanning tree, subnetting, and basic routing was key. If you dont have access to a router I highly recommend Dynamips/Dynagen. http://dynagen.org/
You will need a CCO account or someone nice enough to give you a router image to run in the emulator. I used this software extensively when studying for my CCIE and saved a lot of money not having to build out a whole lab.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: ScottFern
I went to a boot camp back in February and I flied through the course. I attained near perfects on both CCENT and CCNA exams. I was very disappointed we didn't use real equipment and only a simulator briefly. I do confess I don't feel like I know enough to jump into a Cisco switching and routing environment and just take control. That hands on experience is invaluable in the long run. Sometimes it feels like I was able to just pass a test.

that's really much of CCNA...the CCNP is the real deal though.

CCNA is really more or less weeding out those that simply will not have the aptitude or desire to continue on. You learn the basics and how to configure things at a very basic level.

It's more than enough to run a small office, but not the level to be part of an enterprise team or deploy networks.

many don't realize that administration is very different than planning/deployment.

CCNA is the basic cert to show you have some skills in networking. CCNA doesn't mean a person CAN'T deploy or be a part of an enterprise, and there is many other things to look at. Experience>certs.

That is very true that administration (day to day) is different than deployment/engineering a network.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: sactwnguy
The CCNA is not a hard test, it covers only basic networking knowledge but for some reason hireing manager give it a lot of weight. To be fair though if you have zero networking background I can see how it could be tough to get the concepts. I have passed it twice with perfect scores, once in 2000 and again in 2005 when my CCNP expired. From what i remember of the test knowing spanning tree, subnetting, and basic routing was key. If you dont have access to a router I highly recommend Dynamips/Dynagen. http://dynagen.org/
You will need a CCO account or someone nice enough to give you a router image to run in the emulator. I used this software extensively when studying for my CCIE and saved a lot of money not having to build out a whole lab.

Emulation is not the same as real world equipment. Hands on>emulation any day, but for CCNA it's not a big deal to not work on it outside of packet tracer/emulators.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: MoPHo
Took a course in High School that was divided over Junior and Senior year. The format of the test changed the summer in between so there were basics we missed. I think one kid (out of 15) passed it in our class because the focused changed and we had to try and relearn things that we missed. If we had taken the class over one year, it probably would've been a lot different outcome...that and if we didn't install Quake 2 on all the computers and just LAN while the teacher was conducting the lesson...

Did you go to my HS?

Sounds like the same thing we did at our school

 

[lokiju]

My good friend took one of those 1 week boot camps and he's a sharp guy, has always passed all those kind of test in the past but failed this test twice already.

It's pretty hard from what everyone says.

I'm looking into taking the courses starting in July though but I'm not going to do the boot camp route, but a much more in depth and longer course that last months.