CBO analysis of new tax bill, $100k+ earner gets big cuts, poorer earner will tax more after bill

[bshole]

He is basically arguing that low tax states are subsidizing high tax states because high tax states aren't subsidizing low tax states as much as they could be without the SALT deduction.

It is complete moon logic if you stop and think about it for a second.

No he just has bought into the most far right wing lunacy. They want to burn it all down. I have heard that the increased deficits were a critical component of the plan for the Republicans. A year or so down the line when the deficits get really bad they will come back and demand slashes to the medicaid/medicare/social security etc.... It is a really genius move and it will probably work. Bookmark this post, I want to come back to it when they drop the other shoe.

 

[bshole]

I saw an article on the Atlantic that argued that this plan is basically a baby boomer last chance money grab before younger voters overtake them in numbers, which will happen in the early 2020s. A huge FYGM on their way out.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...l-foot-the-bill-for-the-gops-tax-plan/547097/

Baby boomers..... the shittiest generation.....

 

[repoman0]

They aren't subsiding the federal government..they're receiving a subsidy from the federal government and thereby shirking their fair share of the federal tax burden.

I'm starting to like K1052's proposal more and more. No state can receive more than it contributes in Federal dollars. I would vote for that in a heartbeat come 2018 and 2020 so we can find out for sure who is subsidizing the Federal government. You would vote for such a proposal too if you want everyone to pay their fair share of the tax burden, correct?

 

[brycejones]

Higher tax States aren't subsiding the federal government..they're receiving a subsidy from the federal government and thereby shirking their fair share of the federal tax burden.

Are you having a stroke?

 

[fskimospy]

No he just has bought into the most far right wing lunacy. They want to burn it all down. I have heard that the increased deficits were a critical component of the plan for the Republicans. A year or so down the line when the deficits get really bad they will come back and demand slashes to the medicaid/medicare/social security etc.... It is a really genius move and it will probably work. Bookmark this post, I want to come back to it when they drop the other shoe.

Nah, he's just operating from a place of extreme partisanship. He knows he needs to support the bill, now he just has to figure out why.

He's rationalized the SALT part by convincing himself that if, absent the SALT deduction, high tax states were supposed to give low tax states $100 but because of SALT only gave them $70 that's not high tax states giving low tax states $70, that's low tax states giving high tax states $30. I have to say it's a novel argument! Apparently the recipients of a gift are actually the ones GIVING the gift if it's smaller than they hoped it would be.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

LoL, we are being pummeled by ads on talk radio about how this a boon for the middle class. That this is tax relief for the middle class..... not a single peep about what it really is. At least you recognize this as a money grab from the middle and working classes and giveaway to the rich. If only the Republican politicians were so honest. If only they ran their campaigns on giving tax relief to billionaires. Instead they lie through their filthy mouths and say it is tax relief for the middle class.

The absolutely most grotesque aspect of this bill is that in reality it is primarily funded by ROBBING the future of our children. It is put on a credit card and given to them.

I don't know why you quoted me as your response completely ignores what I posted.

 

[Jhhnn]

Higher tax States aren't subsiding the federal government..they're receiving a subsidy from the federal government and thereby shirking their fair share of the federal tax burden.

False. States who put in more than they get back are paying for the federal govt. States who get back more than they put in obviously are not.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Whelp, looks like this trainwreck is passing.

As a conservative, I'm still heavily against this shit. I'm all in favor of getting rid of mortgage interest/property tax/SALT deductions, but not at the cost of repealing the estate tax. As much as I don't care for the estate tax either, it's effectively trading an upper middle class tax deduction (thus they pay more) in order to supply the very cream of the crop rich with a huge tax cut. Pity.

I guess I can just sit back and relax though, even though I own a home since I'm married and we live way below our means we have always taken the standard deduction... according to calculations, I'll save roughly $5k with this bill. As far as healthcare, I'll always be taken care of with a 2-income household with decent benefits. Time to sit back and watch the fireworks over this trainwreck.

Last year I only switched my vote for POTUS, looks like I might have to for everything this go around.

 

[Maxima1]

Just LoL. Keep pushing down teacher salaries in the face of a NATION wide teacher shortage. Republicans have been bashing teachers my entire life and it is an open secret that they want the public school system to fail. It is rather inexplicable to me.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...18-school-year-begins/?utm_term=.2b625c5a95e0

It has been obvious for a long time that the link between class size and teacher compensation is weak. The "shortage" btw is overstated and depends on the area. Things like the teacher compensation schedule (based on experience) make it worse because teachers generally get the same amount in really any subject no matter what.

You seem to be missing the whole point of why people take public sector jobs in the first place. It's rarely about the money, as that is typically less than private sector. Times that varies is when government has to do more to encourage people to work for them. It's generally for the benefits that are often significantly better than what the private sector will offer. Now in some industries and government agencies this Gap is closing and less of factor. However a consistent and 'safe' job can mean a lot to some, moreso than pay or benefits.

Per your salary argument, it's all focused on one specific set of data. You're not factoring in where those salries are or the cost of living. 80k in that area could really go about as far as 30k somewhere more rural. With many teacher salaries starting in the 20's, and poor prospects of being paid better in a reasonable timeframe, it's not hard to see why there's a shortage. NC has played around with this with the Republicans screwing up the education system (not paying teachers with masters more, etc), and it's seen a mass Exodus.

A "safe" job is basically about money. Also, this is nonsense. You go to college to make more money, and teachers make it obvious when ever the pols go after their bennies. Teachers also have some of the best per hour rates, while in private sector many working schlubs don't get a huge boost when working part-time..

I have no idea why you're bringing in cost of living. I had already given what the median household income is in CA, and teachers are far above despite it not including the pension or the shorter work year and hours than typical private sector worker.

 

[bshole]

Eski:

Kind of offtopic....

DJIA is skyrocketing as the wealthy go all in. How high do you think the market will get before it crashes? 35k? $40K

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

False. States who put in more than they get back are paying for the federal govt. States who get back more than they put in obviously are not.

States don't pay a dime to the federal government. You're conflating people with States. Federal income taxes are not paid by States....they're paid by businesses and individuals who happen to live in States.

 

[mect]

Higher tax States aren't subsiding the federal government..they're receiving a subsidy from the federal government and thereby shirking their fair share of the federal tax burden.

It depends on how you view it. If you look at overall federal taxes collected from a state compared to federal taxes spent within that state, these states are still net donors. The claim that just because they are donating less than they otherwise would by being able to deduct their state taxes is the equivalent of them being subsidized is pretty weak. That's like saying a wealthy individual who decreases his tax liability by itemizing his taxes is being subsidized by poorer individuals.

I'm not saying I disagree with the idea of eliminating the ability of individuals to deduct state taxes (that is the least of my concerns for the current tax proposals), but the claim that it is a subsidy for states that are already paying more than their fair share is disingenuous.

 

[mect]

States don't pay a dime to the federal government. You're conflating people with States. Federal income taxes are not paid by States....they're paid by businesses and individuals who happen to live in States.

You're the one saying that higher taxed states are receiving a subsidy.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

As a conservative, I'm still heavily against this shit. I'm all in favor of getting rid of mortgage interest/property tax/SALT deductions, but not at the cost of repealing the estate tax. As much as I don't care for the estate tax either, it's effectively trading an upper middle class tax deduction (thus they pay more) in order to supply the very cream of the crop rich with a huge tax cut. Pity.

The estate tax accounts for a whooping .6 percent of total federal revenue. Egad!

 

[zinfamous]

California and New York are net givers because they have the benefit of significant aggregate federal investments towards infrastructure and geographic advantages over most other states.

Check your state privilege.

California being "geographically advantaged." ...I'll remember that the next time people start laughing at them for their water issues and fire season. Yes, California has a lot going for it when it comes to recreation and location from a shipping/transit perspective, but nothing is every going to be more important for an economy than something so biologically necessary as potable and agricultural water access.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You're the one saying that higher taxed states are receiving a subsidy.

People living in high tax States are receiving a federal tax subsidy.

 

[zinfamous]

The estate tax accounts for only .6 percent of total federal revenue. Egad!

Right, which is a good argument for how deplorably and embarrassingly low the current estate tax is.

 

[K1052]

I'm nervous watching the markets. Valuations are already historically high. Pumping an immense wad of cash into companies that will be quickly spent on buybacks and dividends seems like a really bad idea. The difference between going out for a few drinks or an all night bender. The hangover is inevitable, the only question is the severity and timing.

 

[Jhhnn]

I saw an article on the Atlantic that argued that this plan is basically a baby boomer last chance money grab before younger voters overtake them in numbers, which will happen in the early 2020s. A huge FYGM on their way out.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...l-foot-the-bill-for-the-gops-tax-plan/547097/

Framing it in generational terms is counter productive. It's top down class warfare that the rich class has been winning for 40 years. It's been carried forward through the greatest generation & the silent generation to today. We're experiencing the cumulative effects.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Right, which is a good argument for how deplorably and embarrassingly low the current estate tax is.

Yeah...only 40% which is currently 4th highest among OECD countries.

 

[K1052]

Framing it in generational terms is counter productive. It's top down class warfare that the rich class has been winning for 40 years. It's been carried forward through the greatest generation & the silent generation to today. We're experiencing the cumulative effects.

Accurate. The rich people just happen to be boomers in this case.

 

[mect]

Yeah...only 40% which is currently 4th highest among OECD countries.

I don't think its so much the rate that is the issue but rather at what dollar value it kicks in.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Yeah...only 40% which is currently 4th highest among OECD countries.

Quick question. What are the tax free allowances in other countries compared to the U.S? What percentage of people actually pay estate taxes?

 

[repoman0]

I'm nervous watching the markets. Valuations are already historically high. Pumping an immense wad of cash into companies that will be quickly spent on buybacks and dividends seems like a really bad idea. The difference between going out for a few drinks or an all night bender. The hangover is inevitable, the only question is the severity and timing.

Good, bring it all down. Maybe if I can time it right I'll actually gain something from this bill.

 

[repoman0]

Framing it in generational terms is counter productive. It's top down class warfare that the rich class has been winning for 40 years. It's been carried forward through the greatest generation & the silent generation to today. We're experiencing the cumulative effects.

Nevertheless, the statistical voting preferences of the two groups (boomers and millennials) are very different. If millennials voted in similar or larger numbers compared to boomers, we wouldn't be having this conversation.