Cawthorn. Lights on. Noone home.

[MrSquished]

Also @Ajay remember Trump's separation of kids from parents with no plan to reunite? Oh I do.

A huge amount of trumpers were fine with that. I know. I saw them. Hell my sister works for a non-profit whose goal is to promote healthy family living, so as a non-profit they don't get involved in politics. But, they felt this was an issue they had to make a mildly worded statement about against the separation. They are a pro healthy family organization after all.

Guess what kind of emails they were getting from conservative parents. They were criticizing the non-profit for daring to take any sort of stand against the inhumane separation of children from parents for the act of seeking asylum with no plan to reunite them because it was anti their cult leader.

They are victims to you? I don't think you will know a fascist if they punch you in the face first while you are trying to vote.

 

[ivwshane]

So it's not possible for an average person to think a flag that stands for racism, slavery and treason is bad, they are just a victim. This is not asking for them to have a complex understanding of systemic racism here. This is basic IQ 101 here.

You are naive.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

I’ll give you a different perspective. When I was young I thought the confederate flag was cool looking, the dukes of hazard helped with that. I didn’t know about its history and what it actually stood for. Of course over time I did learn about its history and what it stood for and I also learned and saw first hand Americas racism problem. So now the flag doesn’t mean to me what it used to.

Now imagine a kid just like me who never learned the history of the flag and what it stood for or instead of learning about its true history they learned about it through a different more positive lense. Let’s say that instead of growing up and seeing racism for themselves that they never did and in fact where they are from the racist things they do weren’t considered or even thought of as racist. So now because of how they grew up and the biased sources of information they consume, all they hear about is how some “other” is trying to take away their “heritage” or something they associate with as a part of their being. How do you think they are going to react?

Are they the problem or is the environment they were raised in the problem? If you are so certain that others are doing wrong because that’s what you’ve been taught, does that make you evil if you are fighting for what you believe in? Or does that make you extremely ignorant?

Do you fight evil the same way you do ignorance?

I know a lot of magats and most, when not dealing with politics, are good people and yes there are those who I’d consider crazy and worthy of being put on an fbi watch list but yet are far and few between.

The root of the problem isn’t the people, it’s those in power or who have influence that are the problem. I think it’s important to separate the two otherwise the only solution is a civil war and that’s not good for anyone.

 

[MrSquished]

I’ll give you a different perspective. When I was young I thought the confederate flag was cool looking, the dukes of hazard helped with that. I didn’t know about its history and what it actually stood for. Of course over time I did learn about its history and what it stood for and I also learned and saw first hand Americas racism problem. So now the flag doesn’t mean to me what it used to.

Now imagine a kid just like me who never learned the history of the flag and what it stood for or instead of learning about its true history they learned about it through a different more positive lense. Let’s say that instead of growing up and seeing racism for themselves that they never did and in fact where they are from the racist things they do weren’t considered or even thought of as racist. So now because of how they grew up and the biased sources of information they consume, all they hear about is how some “other” is trying to take away their “heritage” or something they associate with as a part of their being. How do you think they are going to react?

Are they the problem or is the environment they were raised in the problem? If you are so certain that others are doing wrong because that’s what you’ve been taught, does that make you evil if you are fighting for what you believe in? Or does that make you extremely ignorant?

Do you fight evil the same way you do ignorance?

I know a lot of magats and most, when not dealing with politics, are good people and yes there are those who I’d consider crazy and worthy of being put on an fbi watch list but yet are far and few between.

The root of the problem isn’t the people, it’s those in power or who have influence that are the problem. I think it’s important to separate the two otherwise the only solution is a civil war and that’s not good for anyone.

I do think all those people learned in school we fought a civil war, and the side fighting for slaves flew that flag. I would think it's a 2+2 equation to put it all together. But perhaps I just have too much faith in average intellect.

But unfortunately they are the same people that think taking little brown kids away from their parents for seeking asylum with no plans to reunite them is also fine when everybody knows if they looked like beautiful Scandinavians they wouldn't feel that way. I mean how do you excuse that? I have heard more than one Trumpie say we should just shoot the Central American asylum seekers as they try to cross the border, no questions asked. Even some people that consider themselves more a moderate Republican.

 

[pmv]

I couldn't work out why I kept thinking this guy sounded like the name of a dodgy dating agency. Finally remembered I was thinking of that "Ashley Madison" site for people having affairs, that famously got hacked.

 

[ivwshane]

I do think all those people learned in school we fought a civil war, and the side fighting for slaves flew that flag. I would think it's a 2+2 equation to put it all together. But perhaps I just have too much faith in average intellect.

But unfortunately they are the same people that think taking little brown kids away from their parents for seeking asylum with no plans to reunite them is also fine when everybody knows if they looked like beautiful Scandinavians they wouldn't feel that way. I mean how do you excuse that? I have heard more than one Trumpie say we should just shoot the Central American asylum seekers as they try to cross the border, no questions asked. Even some people that consider themselves more a moderate Republican.

I don’t think you understand just how long their brainwashing has been going on. A lot of states history books were recommended by and approved by racists kkk members. The history you were taught was not the history they learned. Hell, they call it the war of northern aggression for Christs sake!

How do we excuse bad human behavior? The same way we’ve been doing it throughout all of human history, ignorance. Ignorance is such a powerful weapon that real bad people have used it to exploit others all through history and we are at a time in human development that ignorance is so easy to spread and propagate now that it seems like an unwinable battle.

But here’s the thing, you can either try fighting ignorant individuals or fight against the things making them ignorant. The problem is, if you try fighting the individual you’ll never win as ignorance will spread and infect people at a rate higher than you can keep up. In other words, you are wasting your time. Focus on the source and then maybe we’ll have a chance. Otherwise, taken to its logical conclusion, what you are advocating for is genocide and I’m not aware of that ever being an option for the “good guys”.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I do think all those people learned in school we fought a civil war, and the side fighting for slaves flew that flag. I would think it's a 2+2 equation to put it all together. But perhaps I just have too much faith in average intellect.

But unfortunately they are the same people that think taking little brown kids away from their parents for seeking asylum with no plans to reunite them is also fine when everybody knows if they looked like beautiful Scandinavians they wouldn't feel that way. I mean how do you excuse that? I have heard more than one Trumpie say we should just shoot the Central American asylum seekers as they try to cross the border, no questions asked. Even some people that consider themselves more a moderate Republican.

by why did the south secede? was it over states rights, or slavery?

the answer is the latter, but plenty of people will tell you it's the former (e.g. the Lost Cause myth)

 

[MrSquished]

I don’t think you understand just how long their brainwashing has been going on. A lot of states history books were recommended by and approved by racists kkk members. The history you were taught was not the history they learned. Hell, they call it the war of northern aggression for Christs sake!

How do we excuse bad human behavior? The same way we’ve been doing it throughout all of human history, ignorance. Ignorance is such a powerful weapon that real bad people have used it to exploit others all through history and we are at a time in human development that ignorance is so easy to spread and propagate now that it seems like an unwinable battle.

But here’s the thing, you can either try fighting ignorant individuals or fight against the things making them ignorant. The problem is, if you try fighting the individual you’ll never win as ignorance will spread and infect people at a rate higher than you can keep up. In other words, you are wasting your time. Focus on the source and then maybe we’ll have a chance. Otherwise, taken to its logical conclusion, what you are advocating for is genocide and I’m not aware of that ever being an option for the “good guys”.

I am kinda blown away you think anything I said encourages genocide. That's pretty insane. I think you are nuts, it's them who want to kill liberals. I've never hinted at violence one single time, just calling people out for who they actually are. I mean if you want to talk about it, Goebbels had a family. KKK members had dogs and played with them in bucolic backyards. They had bake sales and PTA meetings. yes, such lovely people.

In fact it's those people that would gladly or be ok to round up brown people and put them into camps if you want to be honest with yourself. They asked Charlie Kirk when they can start shooting us. A candidate for Congress suggested shooting General Miley. They have militia ready to go if they can only coordinate better to start killing liberals. They wanted to hang Pence on Jan 6 and most Trumpers sympathize with them. They call them January 6th patriots all over the internet. They are mad at Trump for letting the insurrectionists that tried to assault our government rot. You are delusional if you think I want genocide, it's them who want that, big time, and I want out before that happens. I mean look at the comments here: https://www.banned.video/watch?id=61cb9c52d7f5f63c3166b480



I'm just being realistic. I've said time and time again I want no war and no killing and no civil war. I'd propose a negotiated split of the country with representatives from both sides hashing out a separation and then establishing fair trade and border agreements to do commerce and allow travel similar to how we have with Canada.

I think you are both naive about who we are dealing with here, big time. The only hope to avoid them overthrowing democracy and/or performing unjustified violent acts against immigrants, black people and liberals is to at least try to split up with them before that happens. That's all I've ever proposed and good luck finding anything I've said otherwise. I encouraged liberals to get guns to defend us against an inevitable attack by these loons, but never to be the aggressors.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

No one.

Two words.


Sent from my keyboard, using my fingers.

 

[ivwshane]

I am kinda blown away you think anything I said encourages genocide. That's pretty insane. I think you are nuts, it's them who want to kill liberals. I've never hinted at violence one single time, just calling people out for who they actually are. I mean if you want to talk about it, Goebbels had a family. KKK members had dogs and played with them in bucolic backyards. They had bake sales and PTA meetings. yes, such lovely people.

In fact it's those people that would gladly or be ok to round up brown people and put them into camps if you want to be honest with yourself. They asked Charlie Kirk when they can start shooting us. A candidate for Congress suggested shooting General Miley. They wanted to hang Pence on Jan 6 and most Trumpers sympathize with them. You are delusional if you think I want genocide, it's them who want that, I want out before that happens.

I'm just being realistic. I've said time and time again I want no war and no killing and no civil war. I'd propose a negotiated split of the country with representatives from both sides hashing out a separation and then establishing fair trade and border agreements to do commerce and allow travel similar to how we have with Canada.

If something is truly evil then you do everything in your power to get rid of it. I’ve taken your feelings to their logical conclusion. Don’t get mad at me for pointing that out to you.

I get your frustration, I really do but it’s simply misplaced. Try being really ignorant and you’ll be surprised at the amount of stupid Shit you say.

 

[feralkid]

by why did the south secede? was it over states rights, or slavery?

the answer is the latter, but plenty of people will tell you it's the former (e.g. the Lost Cause myth)

The south did secede over states' rights...namely the right to allow slavery.

 

[MrSquished]

If something is truly evil then you do everything in your power to get rid of it. I’ve taken your feelings to their logical conclusion. Don’t get mad at me for pointing that out to you.

I get your frustration, I really do but it’s simply misplaced. Try being really ignorant and you’ll be surprised at the amount of stupid Shit you say.

There are various ways to get rid of things. I think the Taliban is evil but I don't propose turning the middle east into a parking lot as many of the fine conservative people you defend would be fine doing. I heard many say that many a time during all recent middle east wars . Just carpet bomb whole countries. Nor do I support going in there and exterminating the Taliban. I can give you a million examples where I can recognize evil but not think we should go to war. You seem smarter than someone who thinks there is no nuance in the world that if you recognize evil you have to kill it.

I have no urge to go shoot anyone. It's the right wingers you defend that sympathize with people that have and are encouraging violence against us.

Your logical conclusion is just not logical. I have said many times to propose and attempt a negotiated split. Honestly most of them would probably love the idea of having their Confederate Christian paradise.

 

[ivwshane]

There are various ways to get rid of things. I think the Taliban is evil but I don't propose turning the middle east into a parking lot as many of the fine conservative people you defend would be fine doing. I heard many say that many a time during all recent middle east wars . Just carpet bomb whole countries. Nor do I support going in there and exterminating the Taliban. I can give you a million examples where I can recognize evil but not think we should go to war. You seem smarter than someone who thinks there is no nuance in the world that if you recognize evil you have to kill it.

I have no urge to go shoot anyone. It's the right wingers you defend that sympathize with people that have and are encouraging violence against us.

Your logical conclusion is just not logical. I have said many times to propose and attempt a negotiated split. Honestly most of them would probably love the idea of having their Confederate Christian paradise.

I’m not defending anyone, I’m merely asking you to place your energy where it would be more efficient.

Your idea is unworkable and will never happen as it requires a complete dismantling of our government and ignoring the constitution. If you don’t think that solution leads to anything but violence then I’d have to ask, who is really being naïve here.

 

[MrSquished]

I’m not defending anyone, I’m merely asking you to place your energy where it would be more efficient.

Your idea is unworkable and will never happen as it requires a complete dismantling of our government and ignoring the constitution. If you don’t think that solution leads to anything but violence then I’d have to ask, who is really being naïve here.

The only other option is to let the federal government be coopted by those who already don't respect the constitution, already tried to usurp it last year just didn't prepare enough, but are preparing quite well now - and all of us living under their reign. I propose making an actual peaceful attempt to pre-empt that. You propose letting them win. We aren't going to educate all these great people you are talking about that want to shoot liberals, execute Generals and snatch children away from asylum seekers anytime in the next three years. Obama tried to reach across the aisle and it got ten times worse with Trump, and then more voted for him. I truly thought when Obama won and those subsequent years we could reach across the aisle as you are saying now. But look what actually happened? So I am now basing my thoughts on what I have learned from them. And you think they are going to be turned around? He was the last hope and they rejected it tooth and nail. And I'm the one who is naive?

Even MTG gets this one thing. She is nuts but she did mention about it possibly being time for a national divorce - not a violent revolution. That's what this would be - a divorce. I can respect her for coming to one reasonable conclusion.

 

[soulcougher73]

I don’t think you understand just how long their brainwashing has been going on. A lot of states history books were recommended by and approved by racists kkk members. The history you were taught was not the history they learned. Hell, they call it the war of northern aggression for Christs sake!

How do we excuse bad human behavior? The same way we’ve been doing it throughout all of human history, ignorance. Ignorance is such a powerful weapon that real bad people have used it to exploit others all through history and we are at a time in human development that ignorance is so easy to spread and propagate now that it seems like an unwinable battle.

But here’s the thing, you can either try fighting ignorant individuals or fight against the things making them ignorant. The problem is, if you try fighting the individual you’ll never win as ignorance will spread and infect people at a rate higher than you can keep up. In other words, you are wasting your time. Focus on the source and then maybe we’ll have a chance. Otherwise, taken to its logical conclusion, what you are advocating for is genocide and I’m not aware of that ever being an option for the “good guys”.

The bolded above totally reminded me of this great song Wildfire:

 

[ivwshane]

The only other option is to let the federal government be coopted by those who already don't respect the constitution, already tried to usurp it last year just didn't prepare enough, but are preparing quite well now - and all of us living under their reign. I propose making an actual peaceful attempt to pre-empt that. You propose letting them win. We aren't going to educate all these great people you are talking about that want to shoot liberals, execute Generals and snatch children away from asylum seekers anytime in the next three years. Obama tried to reach across the aisle and it got ten times worse with Trump, and then more voted for him. I truly thought when Obama won and those subsequent years we could reach across the aisle as you are saying now. But look what actually happened? So I am now basing my thoughts on what I have learned from them. And you think they are going to be turned around? He was the last hope and they rejected it tooth and nail. And I'm the one who is naive?

Even MTG gets this one thing. She is nuts but she did mention about it possibly being time for a national divorce - not a violent revolution. That's what this would be - a divorce. I can respect her for coming to one reasonable conclusion.

You aren’t listening so good luck!

 

[ivwshane]

The bolded above totally reminded me of this great song Wildfire:

Not my type of music but the lyrics are pretty good.

 

[MrSquished]

You aren’t listening so good luck!

Neither are you. And not paying attention to what the right has actually shown us about reaching out to them over the last 13 years and where that got us and what they have been trying to do lately to democracy. I mean it's scary.

 

[cytg111]

The only other option is to let the federal government be coopted by those who already don't respect the constitution, already tried to usurp it last year just didn't prepare enough, but are preparing quite well now - and all of us living under their reign. I propose making an actual peaceful attempt to pre-empt that. You propose letting them win. We aren't going to educate all these great people you are talking about that want to shoot liberals, execute Generals and snatch children away from asylum seekers anytime in the next three years. Obama tried to reach across the aisle and it got ten times worse with Trump, and then more voted for him. I truly thought when Obama won and those subsequent years we could reach across the aisle as you are saying now. But look what actually happened? So I am now basing my thoughts on what I have learned from them. And you think they are going to be turned around? He was the last hope and they rejected it tooth and nail. And I'm the one who is naive?

Even MTG gets this one thing. She is nuts but she did mention about it possibly being time for a national divorce - not a violent revolution. That's what this would be - a divorce. I can respect her for coming to one reasonable conclusion.

If you actually threw the book(s) at all of Congress that is involved in seditious behavior, colluding with foreign nations, killing people with anti mask vaxx rhetoric, jan 6th coup and actually threw then in gitmo or *SOMETHING* ... that shit would end real quick.
If you dont fix the problem, you're gonna have another divorce in another 20 years.

You have to watch human behavior as if you were at the zoo. This is what ape transforms into when x, y, z happens. Fix x, y, z, no amount of divorce is gonna fix that for you.
You're conceding to Putin, Rupert, Koch's etc.

 

[Ajay]

Also @Ajay remember Trump's separation of kids from parents with no plan to reunite? Oh I do.

A huge amount of trumpers were fine with that. I know. I saw them. Hell my sister works for a non-profit whose goal is to promote healthy family living, so as a non-profit they don't get involved in politics. But, they felt this was an issue they had to make a mildly worded statement about against the separation. They are a pro healthy family organization after all.

Guess what kind of emails they were getting from conservative parents. They were criticizing the non-profit for daring to take any sort of stand against the inhumane separation of children from parents for the act of seeking asylum with no plan to reunite them because it was anti their cult leader.

They are victims to you? I don't think you will know a fascist if they punch you in the face first while you are trying to vote.

Okay, it’s not complete victim-hood. They have personal agency and accept some of these ideas which are absurd or contradictory to us. But, I am completely convinced that much of this is totally in keeping with past mass movements, where the behavior of the masses breaks down people's normally decent behavior. The example that still stands is Nazi Germany's co-opting of ordinary citizens by manipulating their fears, in particular, and their various desires as well. Same old story throughout history. In the modern world we just have the ability to do this through a more powerful, and self reinforcing, media platforms where propaganda spreads at breakneck speed.

For my part, I’ve just decided that hating people does me no good and makes me an obstacle to any possible reconciliation that must happen, no matter how long it takes. The only other option is for us to become yet another failed state. Ben Franklin said we have a democracy, if we can keep it. That generation was willing to spill their blood for it. We aught to at least be willing to shed some of our dreams to keep it. It just needs to happen on both sides of the fence.

Oh, and If I could, I would burn Twitter and Facebook down to the ground.

 

[feralkid]

No one.

Two words.


Sent from my keyboard, using my fingers.

That's right.
Unless it's about me, mate.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

More Russkies?

Did Madison Cawthorn Marry A Russian Honeypot?

Listen to his story about how he met his wife.

crooksandliars.com

Cawthorn back in headlines with Russian casino story

Freshman North Carolina congressman Madison Cawthorn is back in the national spotlight for his story about a Russian casino and a fake fitness competition.

www.wral.com

NC Rep. Madison Cawthorn announces divorce after less than 1 year of marriage amid wave of political questions

North Carolina Congressman Madison Cawthorn announced he and his wife Cristina mutually agreed on a divorce just eight months into their marriage Wednesday night, citing political difficulties that…

www.cbs17.com

Conspiracy theorists are convinced Madison Cawthorn married a Russian spy

The tale includes a Russian casino and a fake CrossFit competition.

www.dailydot.com

 

[gothuevos]

Okay, it’s not complete victim-hood. They have personal agency and accept some of these ideas which are absurd or contradictory to us. But, I am completely convinced that much of this is totally in keeping with past mass movements, where the behavior of the masses breaks down people's normally decent behavior. The example that still stands is Nazi Germany's co-opting of ordinary citizens by manipulating their fears, in particular, and their various desires as well. Same old story throughout history. In the modern world we just have the ability to do this through a more powerful, and self reinforcing, media platforms where propaganda spreads at breakneck speed.

For my part, I’ve just decided that hating people does me no good and makes me an obstacle to any possible reconciliation that must happen, no matter how long it takes. The only other option is for us to become yet another failed state. Ben Franklin said we have a democracy, if we can keep it. That generation was willing to spill their blood for it. We aught to at least be willing to shed some of our dreams to keep it. It just needs to happen on both sides of the fence.

Oh, and If I could, I would burn Twitter and Facebook down to the ground.

How can you bothsides this?

They don't want to bargain with you. But yeah, "shed your dreams" or whatever that means. They still won't sit at the table with you.

 

[nakedfrog]

Well, yes lies upon lies upon lies. Years of Agitprop from the GOP - pretty much 40 years worth. As this Agitprop just amps up the base, the GOP has just pumped out more and more of it till many have become 'hostile' towards those 'liberals'. It's a horrific magic trick - this is the important stuff, keep you eye on it - so you don't see that we are trampling on the poor and eroding the middle class so we can grab more power and become super rich. Now we have liberals becoming increasingly hostile towards to right. Tell me, how does this hostility and anger solve anything?? It's madness.

Maybe you are just venting here, and that's fine. But if you are serious, I think you are just falling into a trap that has no exit.

While I do get what you're saying, you should take into consideration that the overall system response to an attempted insurrection by the radicalized conservatives has effectively been fuck-all, just jailing a few hundred of the ground troops. Is it not natural for that to lead to hostility towards people that supported the insurrection?

 

[Ajay]

Newt Gingrich clearly saw that the only way for the Republicans to succeed in implementing their agenda for America (Contract with America), was to get republican majorities at the state level. His plan was very successful and can't be undone for, at best, another generation (if the Democrats even come up with a good plan to change that balance of power). So, posting radical solutions like seceding from the nation and what not on these forums is equivalent to just giving up, IMHO. Oh, the Republicans have won - huff and puff and blow the country apart with secession; brilliant.

Prosecute those who are attacking our institutions, negotiate in earnest* - as hard as that is and keep minds focused on the possible instead of all these knee jerk, emotion driven responses. Oh, and figured out how to compete with Republican propaganda - I just can't imagine their is nobody smart enough in the Democratic party to figure out how to do this; other than being too fragmented to develop a consistent message (which seems to be the case).


*In negotiation, both sides give up something things they want for other things they want more. Many on this forums, including me, blew a gasket just because Manchin played hardball. Kick that MFer out of the part - an give the Republicans all the power they want; senate approval of democratic president's appointments to the court, to various posts within the executive branch - including cabinet level posts and so on. It's just a losing game atm.

I don't have all the answers, I'm not that smart. But I'm smart enough to realize that the current approach is failing.

 

[MrSquished]

Newt Gingrich clearly saw that the only way for the Republicans to succeed in implementing their agenda for America (Contract with America), was to get republican majorities at the state level. His plan was very successful and can't be undone for, at best, another generation (if the Democrats even come up with a good plan to change that balance of power). So, posting radical solutions like seceding from the nation and what not on these forums is equivalent to just giving up, IMHO. Oh, the Republicans have won - huff and puff and blow the country apart with secession; brilliant.

Prosecute those who are attacking our institutions, negotiate in earnest* - as hard as that is and keep minds focused on the possible instead of all these knee jerk, emotion driven responses. Oh, and figured out how to compete with Republican propaganda - I just can't imagine their is nobody smart enough in the Democratic party to figure out how to do this; other than being too fragmented to develop a consistent message (which seems to be the case).


*In negotiation, both sides give up something things they want for other things they want more. Many on this forums, including me, blew a gasket just because Manchin played hardball. Kick that MFer out of the part - an give the Republicans all the power they want; senate approval of democratic president's appointments to the court, to various posts within the executive branch - including cabinet level posts and so on. It's just a losing game atm.

I don't have all the answers, I'm not that smart. But I'm smart enough to realize that the current approach is failing.

The Democrats can't pass the build back better act or win a midterm in Virginia, barely hold on to a governorship in NJ, you think they are going to fix gerrymandering on the state and federal level, fix the under representation of blue states in the house and Senate and the stacked supreme court? Before the GQP probably takes the house in a year?

Hahahahaha. Now that's funny.

The Republicans are well on their way to winning the house in 2022 and set up a solid shot to overthrow democracy in 2024.

Splitting the nation is the best shot at letting half the country avoid living under fascism and doing it peacefully.

Naivete is holding onto a dream of America that doesn't exist anymore.

We don't share fundamental core values that it takes to run a country together with the folks that run the deep South. It's only going to get worse of you haven't noticed.