Casual or Hardcore MMO?

[Koudelka]

Whats the MMO everyones most looking forward to right now?

There's a Warhammer40K MMO in the works. Long time away, but i hope its not just a clone of Warhammer Online.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I hate to admit it but I am looking forward to Darkfall.

 

[Xavier434]

I am somewhere in between the two. I dedicate the amount of time that a casual does, but I also commit myself to my guild like a hardcore player and we progress very similarly to that of a hardcore guild.

I like it this way. It allows me to fulfill my desires while playing the game within the limited amount of time that I now have since graduating college and moving on to a life of work, wife, kids, house, etc.

 

[zerogear]

3 days hardcore, then lose interest and never play again. What does that count as? ADD?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Sorry man I stopped reading when I figured out one of your factors of 'casual v. hardcore' is whether you can solo or not. Level of difficulty can be exactly the same whether you are doing it alone or doing it with other people. These games are basically as hard core as you want to make them. Endless grinding can be considered hard core by some but I call it complete boredom. Take WoW for example. People think it's less hard core than Korean MMOs because you do quest grinding instead of endless same mob over and over and over grinding. It's all a big freaking grind no matter how you look at it.

Personally I think the toughest MMO grinds I've ever faced were those in MUDs but that's just me.

 

[TidusZ]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Sorry man I stopped reading when I figured out one of your factors of 'casual v. hardcore' is whether you can solo or not. Level of difficulty can be exactly the same whether you are doing it alone or doing it with other people. These games are basically as hard core as you want to make them. Endless grinding can be considered hard core by some but I call it complete boredom. Take WoW for example. People think it's less hard core than Korean MMOs because you do quest grinding instead of endless same mob over and over and over grinding. It's all a big freaking grind no matter how you look at it.

Personally I think the toughest MMO grinds I've ever faced were those in MUDs but that's just me.

Imo the hardest part of WoW was getting into a good guild. You have to build up your gear, make friends, build up your reputation, and have a bit of luck. Of course some people get in through rl friends and such, but I personally had to climb the ladder from the bottom rung. The game itself isn't that difficult but there's a lot to learn, its more about knowledge than uber micro skills.

 

[josh6079]

I played FFXI for a couple years. That MMO is probably about as hardcore as I've seen.

Dynamis zones weren't instanced, so getting relic weapons took a good while and a lot of money. They've made it a little easier by not having the event cost as much to enter.

Even if you finally got your relic, the long-time best weapons in the game, they recently introduced a new set of "relics" that are (mostly) better and take a lot more to get - albeit, some of the areas you have to partake in to get it are instanced.

There is a great deal of time one must spend in creating macros (if they want to be good) for their job. Notorious Monster pop times can be anything from 18-36 hours to 4 hours and can have a lot of competition. Crafters spend several million leveling their craft only to be locked in to a 25% chance or less at making a decent profit on just a few recipes. Etc, etc. It meets what you seem to label as hardcore.

But as far as wanting to play a game that does all of those things if it came out tomorrow, no, I wouldn't want that. It's hard to get on for "just an hour" and get anything done.

 

[Koudelka]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Sorry man I stopped reading when I figured out one of your factors of 'casual v. hardcore' is whether you can solo or not. Level of difficulty can be exactly the same whether you are doing it alone or doing it with other people. These games are basically as hard core as you want to make them. Endless grinding can be considered hard core by some but I call it complete boredom. Take WoW for example. People think it's less hard core than Korean MMOs because you do quest grinding instead of endless same mob over and over and over grinding. It's all a big freaking grind no matter how you look at it.

Personally I think the toughest MMO grinds I've ever faced were those in MUDs but that's just me.

In 90% of the MMO's out there (maybe besides the korean ones with 300 levels), you can solo to max level without a hitch with just an hour here, and an hour there over time. You can login and start killing immediately.

The biggest gripe with a game like EQ was that there was practically forced grouping. And that a casual player did not have the time to wait around LFG.

Its a generalization, and my own opinion about what i thought hardcore vs. casual meant to me. Which i clearly tried to state it was my own opinion. You skipped that part. And you're stating your own opinion. Nothing wrong with that. I can see a topic like Hardcore vs. Casual being an endless debate, too

Whether you consider yourself a hardcore gamer or casual is up to you not me. It all depends on how you play, like so many people here consider themselves a casual/hardcore mix which is totally cool and i enjoy reading about everyones different play style.

And again.. 'IMO', nothing is more hardcore than a Korean MMO WoW cannot even compare. I think there's a difference between grinding fun/rewarding quests.. and grinding out 300 characters levels, along with levels for every single skill in the game that go to the hundredth decimal

Heck yeah, its mindless boredom, but thats totally hardcore haha.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: josh6079
I played FFXI for a couple years. That MMO is probably about as hardcore as I've seen.

Dynamis zones weren't instanced, so getting relic weapons took a good while and a lot of money. They've made it a little easier by not having the event cost as much to enter.

Even if you finally got your relic, the long-time best weapons in the game, they recently introduced a new set of "relics" that are (mostly) better and take a lot more to get - albeit, some of the areas you have to partake in to get it are instanced.

There is a great deal of time one must spend in creating macros (if they want to be good) for their job. Notorious Monster pop times can be anything from 18-36 hours to 4 hours and can have a lot of competition. Crafters spend several million leveling their craft only to be locked in to a 25% chance or less at making a decent profit on just a few recipes. Etc, etc. It meets what you seem to label as hardcore.

But as far as wanting to play a game that does all of those things if it came out tomorrow, no, I wouldn't want that. It's hard to get on for "just an hour" and get anything done.

Sounds like an easier version of EQ...

 

[Koudelka]

Originally posted by: josh6079
I played FFXI for a couple years. That MMO is probably about as hardcore as I've seen.

Dynamis zones weren't instanced, so getting relic weapons took a good while and a lot of money. They've made it a little easier by not having the event cost as much to enter.

Even if you finally got your relic, the long-time best weapons in the game, they recently introduced a new set of "relics" that are (mostly) better and take a lot more to get - albeit, some of the areas you have to partake in to get it are instanced.

There is a great deal of time one must spend in creating macros (if they want to be good) for their job. Notorious Monster pop times can be anything from 18-36 hours to 4 hours and can have a lot of competition. Crafters spend several million leveling their craft only to be locked in to a 25% chance or less at making a decent profit on just a few recipes. Etc, etc. It meets what you seem to label as hardcore.

But as far as wanting to play a game that does all of those things if it came out tomorrow, no, I wouldn't want that. It's hard to get on for "just an hour" and get anything done.

I cant comment i never played FFXI. Although i heard numerous complaints back in the day about how long it took to level up.

Like i just said in the previous post though, its not whether or not you fit my own opinion of hardcore or casual. Its just a poll for whether or not you considered yourself a hardcore gamer. Thats up to you not me

I just gave some suggestions for what it meant to me, and what i'd like to see in a new MMO that would interest me. Although, i'll admit.. it probably wouldnt sell very well these days.

Sigil tried it, and their game is going down the toilet. But that was also due to massive bugs, glitches and poor performance requiring a beast of a system.

 

[Manticorps]

Sigil abandoned most of the "hardcore" ideas they had pretty early in beta. It became a watered down WoW clone rather than the spiritual successor to EQ. I had high hopes for Vanguard, until I got into beta and saw what was happening, it had little to do with the drivel they were feeding the public. They had several courses of beta invites, where hundreds or thousands of rabid fans would be invited, only to be disillusioned at the direction of the game, as opposed to what was being publicized. It became clear to me that Brad McQuaid had little to do with any success that EQ had, much like the success Star Wars had in spite of George Lucas.

I enjoyed FFXI, even though there were some things that irritated me to no end. I started playing it after I pretty much moved on from Everquest, approaching it more casually than I did Everquest. Though it's been awhile, I'd say it was at least as hard as EQ, with many things being magnitudes harder. I had some friends to play with, though we started losing interest at some point. One of the big issues was the "Notorious" monster spawns. Latency made it so that a monster might spawn and be killed before it ever showed up on my screen. There were other things that bugged me too, but all in all, I think it's as good, if not better, than any of the current crop.

I prefer a hardcore game, that I can approach casually. Meaning, I want difficulty, I want more group encounters. I never really got into the "grind" , though I did some of it. In EQ for instance, rather than sitting outside killing the same spawn over and over, my group would head to one of the underutilized dungeons and have a blast killing our way through. I want things to be challenging and difficult. I want consequences for poor decisions. I want to be forced to think. I want they journey to be enjoyable, rather than sitting in an outdoor zone killing the same spawns repeatedly. Much of this is predicated on having a regular group to play with all the time, it does suck to be stuck LFG when you only have an 1 1/2 to try to accomplish something.

 

[Koudelka]

@manticorps

I truely enjoyed DDO for some of the reasons you mentioned You were forced to think, combat played like a FPS involving much of your own skill, and getting past most of the traps in the dungeon were very difficult at first involving lots of trial and error and teamwork between classes.

Unfortunately.. you can only play the same areas so many times before you memorize the location and how-to of everything by heart..

I think the game would still be thriving today with a substantial membership if they had a bit more character customization and some form of randomizing your encounters.

Its a real shame. I hope they attempt a new DDO sometime in the future. I think DDO absolutely got the combat gameplay right. It was always so much fun and never a grind. And you werent assaulted by 30+ messenger quests in a log book.

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: Koudelka
@manticorps

I truely enjoyed DDO for some of the reasons you mentioned You were forced to think, combat played like a FPS involving much of your own skill, and getting past most of the traps in the dungeon were very difficult at first involving lots of trial and error and teamwork between classes.

Unfortunately.. you can only play the same areas so many times before you memorize the location and how-to of everything by heart..

I think the game would still be thriving today with a substantial membership if they had a bit more character customization and some form of randomizing your encounters.

Its a real shame. I hope they attempt a new DDO sometime in the future. I think DDO absolutely got the combat gameplay right. It was always so much fun and never a grind. And you werent assaulted by 30+ messenger quests in a log book.

/agree - the huge killer was the static dungeons [and the rest stations when I played the healer role] - if they would've randomized the traps, mobs and altered the areas slightly [maybe add a few secret areas, change the path, etc] - I'd still be playing.

As for the OP - I couldn't fathom how it must've been to wait hours or days for a boss mob encounter nor the time required just to get to max level..

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: Koudelka
Its just a poll for whether or not you considered yourself a hardcore gamer.

I did because of how much time the game occupied of my life, but anymore I just want to shoot people in the head with pretty graphics for an hour to an hour and a half.

 

[OCNewbie]

You had to be really selective with EQ1 if you wanted to solo. I played a Necro mostly so it wasn't too much of a problem. I did have a Rogue too that I really enjoyed, but I was never able to find a consistent group, so he didn't get much playtime. Necro's rocked in EQ1 and I'm assuming they still do. I love self-sufficient classes.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: OCNewbie
You had to be really selective with EQ1 if you wanted to solo. I played a Necro mostly so it wasn't too much of a problem. I did have a Rogue too that I really enjoyed, but I was never able to find a consistent group, so he didn't get much playtime. Necro's rocked in EQ1 and I'm assuming they still do. I love self-sufficient classes.

Hell yes they did. I was also a fan of SK. However, I never got around to leveling my SK and Necro alts because I was always playing my Enc main D:

 

[TC91]

not a big fan of mmo games

 

[Jabbernyx]

I guess GW is considered hardcore (alliance battles, title/faction farming, etc.) but I'm part of a laid back guild and that's how I like to play it

 

[lifeobry]

After playing WoW (first MMO), I know for certain I'm a casual MMO gamer. Someone in-game was describing EverQuest to me and it sounded horredous. He said he had 500 days played on his main :Q

I've been playing two months of WoW and the shine is off the apple, won't be buying another time card. Most addictive game I've played by far though, on a whole another level compared to regular RPGs.

 

[Arglebargle]

Yeah, watching friends play EQ put me off MMOs for years. The camping and griefing stuff was just no fun. Didn't get hooked til the casual friendly City of Heroes came out. Best character generator in the MMO field.

Interesting thing though: Very often, the first MMO that you play (or at least enjoy) will form your expectations of what's 'right' for the field. Happens in a lot of other areas of life as well.

 

[Jumpem]

Casual. I even thought WoW was too hardcore player oriented. I hated that you were forced to group to get the best loot.

 

[JerYnkFan]

I consider myself a casual gamer. While I do like grouping, I also like that I can complete some quests and get decent gear and level without having to wait around for people. I only play WOW now, but I've played EQ2, City of Heroes/Villans, Star Wars Galaxies, Guild Wars and LOTRO. I think some things should require a group, but not the majority of it.

As for the MMO I am most waiting for it's hands down: Old Republic.

 

[Skott]

I used to be Hardcore but nowadays I'm a casual type. I'm starting to lose interest in MMO games because although they may have different themes (Sci-Fi, Medieval, Fantasy, etc.) they all have the same grind to level whatever and do various quests, and such. The constant need to get better armor, weapons, items, and etc., gets tiring. More of the same seems to be the industry standard but thats the world of MMO I suppose. I dont know, maybe i'm just becoming less interested in large group activities and going back to solo play type games. Its getting harder and harder for me to get excited about MMOs like I used to. These days I'm looking foward to more games like Dragon Age: Origins than the next big MMO. But thats just me.

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: rivan
I'm hardcore trapped in a casual player's schedule.

I'd play 5 times as much as I do now, if I didn't have other priorities.

this is well put, and follows me perfectly... I am currently playing zero MMO's