Castro dead?

[AnitaPeterson]

LOL, good one!!!

 

[dennilfloss]

Originally posted by: Braznor
Can someone tell me where his grave gonna be?

I'm gonna hold up for a really long piss on it!

Get in line behind Bush and the Cuban expatriots who wish to give his corpse the Cromwell treatment.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Sort of like the old soviet union....leader would be dead for weeks or more before it would be announced.

With the same contempt for human rights I hear.

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The Cuban embargo accomplished nothing positive for either country.

It stopped us from sponsoring, endorsing, and profiting from the abuse of human rights in Cuba. However eager you are to do so.

 

[JEDIYoda]

slow news say,.....find a rumor that will sell papers...

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Sort of like the old soviet union....leader would be dead for weeks or more before it would be announced.

With the same contempt for human rights I hear.

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The Cuban embargo accomplished nothing positive for either country.

It stopped us from sponsoring, endorsing, and profiting from the abuse of human rights in Cuba. However eager you are to do so.

So, given how many things in your house were made in China, often when there were alternatives if you really wanted to choose them, what does that make you, but an active supporter of the country that executes more people than all others combined?

Boberfett is of course correct. The embargo has been silly. If a person really wanted to be totally moral about things, they'd simply have to have an embargo against China, too, and other countries across the globe that repress humanity...such as various middle eastern countries, but then we need their oil, so let's not do that.

Modern day cuba represents no threat to the US whatsoever. Most of the reason Cuba is a stinking, festering hellhole is because of their political system, but the embargo has probably hurt the typical Cuban more than Castro, who continues to live quite nicely when the rest of his people do not.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: BoberFett

It should have happened long ago. People need to stop holding grudges. The Cuban embargo accomplished nothing positive for either country.

I could not agree more, the only thing it accomplished was as a way for the Cuban regime to use it as propaganda for the people.

It's the same way with most embargoes with the exception of weapon embargoes.

The original intention of the embargo was to punish Castro for the nationalization of American interests.

The problem with embargoes is that unless you can controll all access, there will be those that seek to profit by running the embargo/blockade. then you have a limited supply of items, which usually goes to the hightest bidder or the strongest goon.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Seriously, fighting ideology by restricting trade is one of the stupidest things man has come up with, it has not worked ONCE, ten years later the dictator is still living in luxury and the people are still starving, what is the point of that?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Sort of like the old soviet union....leader would be dead for weeks or more before it would be announced.

With the same contempt for human rights I hear.

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The Cuban embargo accomplished nothing positive for either country.

It stopped us from sponsoring, endorsing, and profiting from the abuse of human rights in Cuba. However eager you are to do so.

:roll:

Trade gives you a position to bargain from. You want our money, then institute these changes. Over time small changes add up to big ones. An embargo simply meant there was no way we'll do business with them, so there's no reason for Fidel to care what we think. Try to think beyond the immediate.

 

[Stunt]

I kind of like going to Cuba on vacation without seeing annoying Americans...

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I kind of like going to Cuba on vacation without seeing annoying Americans...

LOL, and we like it when you go too.

 

[Vic]

While I normally wouldn't be opposed to the idea of an evil oppressing murdering anti-democratic dictator finally getting himself the hell off of this planet, I long ago gave up hope that Raul or any of Fidel's sons would ever bring about any significant reforms to open up the country and help the people. Raul has essentially been in power for a year or more now and little has changed.

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
resorts would spring up in minutes, their economy wouldn't know what hit them.

This is completely true. If not for Castro, Havana would have become Vegas and Orlando combined, and Cuba would have become one of the world's wealthiest nations.

Originally posted by: Craig234
And the people have done a hell of a lot better under him as he's given them a larger share of things.

And he'll do that under he's consolidated his power into a dictatorship-for-life, then he'll undo all that. It's called "bribery" and "cult of personality." It's not like history isn't full of leaders exactly like him.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I kind of like going to Cuba on vacation without seeing annoying Americans...

LOL< that's why I'm going there as well

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: BoberFett

It should have happened long ago. People need to stop holding grudges. The Cuban embargo accomplished nothing positive for either country.

I could not agree more, the only thing it accomplished was as a way for the Cuban regime to use it as propaganda for the people.

It's the same way with most embargoes with the exception of weapon embargoes.

The original intention of the embargo was to punish Castro for the nationalization of American interests.

The problem with embargoes is that unless you can controll all access, there will be those that seek to profit by running the embargo/blockade. then you have a limited supply of items, which usually goes to the hightest bidder or the strongest goon.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Seriously, fighting ideology by restricting trade is one of the stupidest things man has come up with, it has not worked ONCE, ten years later the dictator is still living in luxury and the people are still starving, what is the point of that?

The point is that eventually the people are fed up and have a revolution, ousting the dictator living in luxury. Not saying it always works but that's part of the idea.

 

[Thump553]

In other news, General Franco is still dead.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Thump553
In other news, General Franco is still dead.

Heh, when I was in college I was a DJ for one ill fated semester, and I was on the air the day John Lennon died.

Never being one to use common sense (and IIRC I was pretty high on coke & pot) I did a parody on the SNL gag & said "And John Lennon is still dead." between songs.

Holy crap, I had no idea that many Beatle fans were listening to my crap, and they all called in threatening to kill me

I had to play Beatle crap for the rest of my show to get the hippies off my back.

I'm pretty sure the Cubans have reanimated Castro as a zombie & they can't let the rotting flesh be seen on TV.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Vic
While I normally wouldn't be opposed to the idea of an evil oppressing murdering anti-democratic dictator finally getting himself the hell off of this planet, I long ago gave up hope that Raul or any of Fidel's sons would ever bring about any significant reforms to open up the country and help the people. Raul has essentially been in power for a year or more now and little has changed.

Originally posted by: Kwaipie
resorts would spring up in minutes, their economy wouldn't know what hit them.

This is completely true. If not for Castro, Havana would have become Vegas and Orlando combined, and Cuba would have become one of the world's wealthiest nations.

Originally posted by: Craig234
And the people have done a hell of a lot better under him as he's given them a larger share of things.

And he'll do that under he's consolidated his power into a dictatorship-for-life, then he'll undo all that. It's called "bribery" and "cult of personality." It's not like history isn't full of leaders exactly like him.

Resorts make a country wealthy? Tell that to all of the poor people in the carribean.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Sort of like the old soviet union....leader would be dead for weeks or more before it would be announced.

With the same contempt for human rights I hear.

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The Cuban embargo accomplished nothing positive for either country.

It stopped us from sponsoring, endorsing, and profiting from the abuse of human rights in Cuba. However eager you are to do so.

There's a whole spectrum of colors out there - not everything is black and white...

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Sort of like the old soviet union....leader would be dead for weeks or more before it would be announced.

With the same contempt for human rights I hear.

Originally posted by: BoberFett
The Cuban embargo accomplished nothing positive for either country.

It stopped us from sponsoring, endorsing, and profiting from the abuse of human rights in Cuba. However eager you are to do so.

There's a whole spectrum of colors out there - not everything is black and white...

I would venture a guess that most Cubans live a whole lot better than most Mexicans...

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Sort of like the old soviet union....leader would be dead for weeks or more before it would be announced.

Chavez has stated that he talked with Castro on his b-day (13 Aug).

Chavez also claims he is for the people too!

And the people have done a hell of a lot better under him as he's given them a larger share of things.

You're the one 'against the people'.

oh boy...

as for Castro, Cuba, etc, I do believe that it's long past due that we should discuss new and unhindered relations with Cuba. It would be nice to see their entire country do a 180 during my lifetime. I just hope their new leadership is ready for that when the time comes...

I'd also like to personally invest in a few new resorts down there $$$$ woohooo! $$$$

 

[heartsurgeon]

I would venture a guess that most Cubans live a whole lot better than most Mexicans...

exactly what do you base this opinion upon?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

I would venture a guess that most Cubans live a whole lot better than most Mexicans...

exactly what do you base this opinion upon?

[/quote]
Here's a link to one example...

I've been to Cuba but I will refrain from discussing what I saw there. I tend to get a ton of negative feedback whenever I talk about Cuba on here. People seem to pride themselves on the Cuban people suffering. Go figure. :roll:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Originally posted by: SickBeastI would venture a guess that most Cubans live a whole lot better than most Mexicans...

exactly what do you base this opinion upon?

Here's a link to one example...

I've been to Cuba but I will refrain from discussing what I saw there. I tend to get a ton of negative feedback whenever I talk about Cuba on here. People seem to pride themselves on the Cuban people suffering. Go figure. :roll:

That's probably because you referred to 0.005 and 3 positions in rank on the HDI scale as "a whole lot better."

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Originally posted by: SickBeastI would venture a guess that most Cubans live a whole lot better than most Mexicans...

exactly what do you base this opinion upon?

Here's a link to one example...

I've been to Cuba but I will refrain from discussing what I saw there. I tend to get a ton of negative feedback whenever I talk about Cuba on here. People seem to pride themselves on the Cuban people suffering. Go figure. :roll:

That's probably because you referred to 0.005 and 3 positions in rank on the HDI scale as "a whole lot better."

It's still undenyably better, and that was just one example (and quite probably a worst-case scenario). And really, why have a free-trade agreement with a democratic country, and then place an embargo on a communist one, dispite the fact that the quality of life is actually higher in the communist nation?

Actually I find it very interesting to compare communist Cuba with the ultra right-wing Mexico. IMO it clearly shows that if we move too far to the right, the overall quality of life will go down. Communism taken too far will also have a negative effect on the overall quality of life.

It seems as though most of the countries that score highest on the quality of life survey are the most centrist countries. Some of their policies border on communism, but they still maintain a strong private sector.

 

[SickBeast]

Actually I just did some reading, and there is some data which shows Mexico with a much higher quality of life index over Cuba. My apologies... :Q

It still does not change the fact, however, that there is a *massive* gap between the rich and poor in Mexico, and the rest of the world should learn from what that can lead to.

 

[Vic]

Hmm... massive gap between rich and poor on one side, a dictator for life with scarecely token democracy and human rights abuses so bad that Amnesty International is banned from the country on the other. This is even a question for you?

Let's put perspective on this. Let us suppose that George Bush today implemented sweeping welfare reforms (hypothetically, bear with me). Universal health care, guaranteed jobs, redistributed wealth, the whole bit. There would still be social classes (just like there still is in Cuba) but the poor would be taken care of and the gap would be substantially reduced. But at the same time, supposed Bush outlawed all political parties but the Republican party, took over all the unions, took your land and banking accounts (as needed for redistribution), took over Congress and the courts, nationalized most industries, and established himself as President for life with his brother Jeb to succeed him upon his death, and anyone who publicly protested could be jailed and even executed.
Would you become a Bush supporter? Doesn't this sound like a fair trade off to you?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Vic
Hmm... massive gap between rich and poor on one side, a dictator for life with scarecely token democracy and human rights abuses so bad that Amnesty International is banned from the country on the other. This is even a question for you?

Let's put perspective on this. Let us suppose that George Bush today implemented sweeping welfare reforms (hypothetically, bear with me). Universal health care, guaranteed jobs, redistributed wealth, the whole bit. There would still be social classes (just like there still is in Cuba) but the poor would be taken care of and the gap would be substantially reduced. But at the same time, supposed Bush outlawed all political parties but the Republican party, took over all the unions, took your land and banking accounts (as needed for redistribution), took over Congress and the courts, nationalized most industries, and established himself as President for life with his brother Jeb to succeed him upon his death, and anyone who publicly protested could be jailed and even executed.
Would you become a Bush supporter? Doesn't this sound like a fair trade off to you?

Oh yeah let's invent a hypothetical instead of properly refuting my statements.

You're obviously a right-wing extremist, or else a libertarian. Both movements don't believe in any form of social support. If you read some Ayn Rand stuff, you'll see how scary libertarianism is. She may be correct in stating that on a primal level we care about our own survival over that of our neighbours, but that doesn't mean that we should just leave the elderly, sick, and disabled to rot and die.