Cash for Clunkers passed by Congress

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
wait a second, maybe I dont understand something

is the $4500 an additional credit on top of the trade-in value offered?

no, your car is the trade-in to be trashed, in exchange for $3500 / $4500 applied to the new qualifying vehicle.

oh, I was under the impression that the credit was to be given on top of any trade-in value the dealership offered. In that case, It's not the "bailout" that I was referring to.

I still don't think it's necessary; if someone has a 17 year old suv, why can't they just donate it and write it off, or sell it for a few bucks and buy a new car just like everyone else.

They could but...while I *always* question the intent and effectiveness of legislation like this, the idea is that it will get people off the fence and push them toward buying a new vehicle right now. Also, it would push to buy new instead of used, since the new car market is in the crapper right now.

And like I said before, it might work. If I can indeed trade in my old conversion van (probably worth $2500 max) on a new econobox, I might just do it. I don't need a new car now, though my Maxima is getting long in the tooth, and if I were to replace her it would likely be with a lightly used car. But an extra couple grand in my pocket might be the different between waiting and buying used versus buying new right now.

 

[LTC8K6]

But an extra couple grand in my pocket might be the different between waiting and buying used versus buying new right now.

I don't see how you'd have an extra couple grand in your pocket on that deal. The dealer gets the money directly, and the new vehicle price is probably not going to be as good for you as it would be on a regular car deal with a trade in and negotiations.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

But an extra couple grand in my pocket might be the different between waiting and buying used versus buying new right now.

I don't see how you'd have an extra couple grand in your pocket on that deal. The dealer gets the money directly, and the new vehicle price is probably not going to be as good for you as it would be on a regular car deal with a trade in and negotiations.

I guess it depends on the situation and what promotions are currently running. I can get a basic Ford Focus sedan on the Z-Plan for about $13,700. They have $500 cash back plus another $500 if I use Ford credit, which takes the price to $12,700. After the $4,500 voucher, the price drops to $8,200. I don't see any negotiations and trade in of my '92 Mercury Cougar that would drop the price of a new Focus to $8,200.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

But an extra couple grand in my pocket might be the different between waiting and buying used versus buying new right now.

I don't see how you'd have an extra couple grand in your pocket on that deal. The dealer gets the money directly, and the new vehicle price is probably not going to be as good for you as it would be on a regular car deal with a trade in and negotiations.

You don't have to tell the dealer right away that you are going to be trading in a car. Find the car you want, negotiate the price, once you are satisfied, say "Ohh by the way, I think I have a car that would qualify for this new government incentive thing".

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: MixMasterTang

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

But an extra couple grand in my pocket might be the different between waiting and buying used versus buying new right now.

I don't see how you'd have an extra couple grand in your pocket on that deal. The dealer gets the money directly, and the new vehicle price is probably not going to be as good for you as it would be on a regular car deal with a trade in and negotiations.

You don't have to tell the dealer right away that you are going to be trading in a car. Find the car you want, negotiate the price, once you are satisfied, say "Ohh by the way, I think I have a car that would qualify for this new government incentive thing".

Good point. That's how you're supposed to handle any car negotiation. The dealer wants to negotiate everything at once like saying, "What monthly payment are you looking at?". You negotiate the price on the car first. Then negotiate the amount of your trade-in (if applicable). Then negotiate financing (if necessary). I don't see why this wouldn't work with the cash-for-clunkers voucher.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, you aren't trading in a car. You will probably be applying for a voucher through the dealer. The dealer has to verify that both the old and new car qualify, and what voucher they qualify for, and that you are eligible. You only get one voucher, so you will have to sign up with your SSN to prevent double dipping.

I doubt you can work this like a regular car deal.

Maybe you can, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Well, you aren't trading in a car. You will probably be applying for a voucher through the dealer. The dealer has to verify that both the old and new car qualify, and what voucher they qualify for, and that you are eligible. You only get one voucher, so you will have to sign up with your SSN to prevent double dipping.

I doubt you can work this like a regular car deal.

Maybe you can, but I wouldn't count on it.

If you can't work this like a regular deal, then I'd say it's a pretty crappy deal (for everyone except the dealer and automaker) unless you can get employee pricing. Not only are we, the taxpayers, the ones who pay for the deal, but the buyers themselves won't even get that great of a deal out of this.

Then again, this deal was made to benefit the auto industry, not the consumers.

 

[Viper GTS]

Oh how I wish I hadn't sold my '93 Grand Cherokee. It would have helped me through a nasty winter AND it would have been worth $4,500 (EPA combined 16 mpg).

Bloody hell. :|

Viper GTS

 

[SearchMaster]

Originally posted by: kalrith

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

But an extra couple grand in my pocket might be the different between waiting and buying used versus buying new right now.

I don't see how you'd have an extra couple grand in your pocket on that deal. The dealer gets the money directly, and the new vehicle price is probably not going to be as good for you as it would be on a regular car deal with a trade in and negotiations.

I guess it depends on the situation and what promotions are currently running. I can get a basic Ford Focus sedan on the Z-Plan for about $13,700. They have $500 cash back plus another $500 if I use Ford credit, which takes the price to $12,700. After the $4,500 voucher, the price drops to $8,200. I don't see any negotiations and trade in of my '92 Mercury Cougar that would drop the price of a new Focus to $8,200.

The car I would be likely considering (Honda Fit) is not a very discounted car to begin with.

But as mentioned above, there is no way I would pay list price just because I had a 'clunker' to trade. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few months.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: MixMasterTang

Originally posted by: Turin39789
is this based on city or highway mpg?

craigslist has a 93 maxima v6 for $400 fueleconomy.gov has it at 17/24

85 olds delta88 has 15/20

You must have owned the car for a year and had it insured the entire time, so buying a clunker just to trade in isn't going to work.

Hmm. I do have a 72 vw beetle that isn't running well, but I don't think I could bring myself to do that.

 

[lupi]

The epa site uses the "new" values.

 

[StageLeft]

the idea is that it will get people off the fence and push them toward buying a new vehicle right now. Also, it would push to buy new instead of used, since the new car market is in the crapper right now.

Continued bubble/credit inflation ftl.

If they just want people to buy new cars, why not give a discount to me to buy one? Why entangle it with this epa sh*t.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

the idea is that it will get people off the fence and push them toward buying a new vehicle right now. Also, it would push to buy new instead of used, since the new car market is in the crapper right now.

Continued bubble/credit inflation ftl.

If they just want people to buy new cars, why not give a discount to me to buy one? Why entangle it with this epa sh*t.

Because a lot of people will give the government a big pat on the back for doing this "environmentally friendly" act of getting all these "clunkers" off the road. Most of us know that this act has nothing to do with the environment (if anything, it's hurting the environment) and everything to do with boosting the auto economy, but the typically person probably doesn't. If the government just came out and gave everybody a $3,500 voucher for a new car, then people would probably be up in arms about wasting that money. However, with the money masked by "doing something good for the environment," people are much more likely to accept this as a good thing our wonderful government is doing.

 

[imported_Uwe]

My 95 Ford F-150 is rated at 11/16 mpg. The trade-in value was less than $1000 according to Edmunds. I'll seriously consider purchasing 2009 Toyota Tacoma base model for around $14K. I could put an extra $2k down payment on it and finish paying it off in 6 months. It will be the second new vehicle I've purchased this year. I had to buy a mini van since this year too since we had our third (AND LAST) child. I busted my butt and had it paid off by mid February.

The Ford sits in the driveway because it guzzels gas so bad. I only used it to haul off trash to the landfill or to get mulch.

I've looked over the Mazda B series and Ford Ranger but the Toyota Tacoma appears to be less expensive to buy and less expensive to insure. If this had not passed I would not consider getting a new truck. I believe once the economy picks up again new cars are going to be a lot more expensive...along with higher gas prices.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
another damn bailout for people who make stupid decisions

how about a handout to those of us who decided not to buy a gas guzzler

Anyone who's made a supposed "stupid decision" probably already got rid of their guzzler by now. Those who've kept them for over 10 years probably have good reason or it simply didn't hurt them so this isn't necessarily about bailing anyone out of bad financial choices. It's about getting them into a better modern vehicle while getting the old, less efficient / more polluting ones, off the road. Getting 2-5mpg more than the old is still going to cost them in gas. Or if they're going for a Hybrid, that $30k is many years of gas with their current vehicle.

The incentive is there so these people would be willing to spend $25k+ in such times. If you want to do that anyway and bitch about why you don't qualify, who's the one looking for a handout?

My uncle has been waiting around to see if this passed. He has a '92 full size truck with like 220,000 miles on it that he couldn't give away last year just sitting in a shed. He's going to drag that thing in and get a Prius.

🙂

And after the dealers mark up all their vehicles, he'll probably save like $500. 😛

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: MixMasterTang

Originally posted by: Turin39789
is this based on city or highway mpg?

craigslist has a 93 maxima v6 for $400 fueleconomy.gov has it at 17/24

85 olds delta88 has 15/20

You must have owned the car for a year and had it insured the entire time, so buying a clunker just to trade in isn't going to work.

At any rate, the floor price of a used piece of crap gas sucking truck would have shot up to $4499 the moment this legislation passed if that was the case anyway. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened anyway due to misunderstanding of the legislation by the general public.

 

[imported_Uwe]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

And after the dealers mark up all their vehicles, he'll probably save like $500. 😛

That's why I'm looking at truck prices now to see if the prices go up or the rebates drop off. If they pull a stunt like that they can shove it up their assets. I can live without the new vehicle but I wouldn't mind getting a new truck with better gas mileage I wouldn't loath driving because of the price of gas.

If the government is going to stick me with the bill later on I'm going to take advantage of it if I can. I can't help that the government is doing this but I'll play with the hand I'm dealt. I would rather they not have offered this program since it puts the government into more debt and they'll come looking for more money from everyone to pay for it.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: MixMasterTang

Originally posted by: Turin39789
is this based on city or highway mpg?

craigslist has a 93 maxima v6 for $400 fueleconomy.gov has it at 17/24

85 olds delta88 has 15/20

You must have owned the car for a year and had it insured the entire time, so buying a clunker just to trade in isn't going to work.

Hmm. I do have a 72 vw beetle that isn't running well, but I don't think I could bring myself to do that.

Too old to qualify.

 

[nakedfrog]

Bah, I'm not even considering a new vehicle purchase until August of next year, but my conversion van would be perfect for this. I'd definitely take advantage of it to swap it for a Mazda5 or something if I could.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

the idea is that it will get people off the fence and push them toward buying a new vehicle right now. Also, it would push to buy new instead of used, since the new car market is in the crapper right now.

Continued bubble/credit inflation ftl.

If they just want people to buy new cars, why not give a discount to me to buy one? Why entangle it with this epa sh*t.

You have to remember who's writing the legislation.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

again, i still fail to see any situation in which i would support someone using my tax dollars to buy a car

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
again, i still fail to see any situation in which i would support someone using my tax dollars to buy a car

It doesn't matter when Big Brother (getting bigger by the day) forces you to. These vouchers will be a drop in the bucket compared to how much money's been dumped into the auto industry already.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
again, i still fail to see any situation in which i would support someone using my tax dollars to buy ________________

 

[dsity]

Lets say i have two clunkers, can I trade one in and my wife another?

Also, can you trade a truck clunker for a car or hybrid?


if the dealers jack up prices due to this, they can burn in hell.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Originally posted by: dsity
Lets say i have two clunkers, can I trade one in and my wife another?

Also, can you trade a truck clunker for a car or hybrid?


if the dealers jack up prices due to this, they can burn in hell.

One clunker per SSN - so yes both you and wifey could do this.