Originally posted by: dexvx
Originally posted by: Crusader
My point was, if you did buy the AMD (or Intel) either way you wont get a crap chip.
For the past years, with the exception of Northwood, Intel has been selling crap chips.
Theres nothing pathetic about using a X2 5000+ unless you are a rabid intel fanboy elitist. Still a great, fast chip..
You're saying its ok to overpay for a chip that:
1) Does less in the performance/watt category (upwards of 40-60% less).
2) Does less general performance (upwards of 20-30% less than a E6600 at stock).
3) Costs upwards of 50% more.
Yet, how is this different when you were buying "crap" Intel chips? I mean P4 Prescotts/Cedar Mills made *ok* machines (they work well and are reasonably fast compared to previous generation AthlonXP's and S754 A64's), but they fell into the same category as #1, #2 but NEVER #3 (except for EE's).
Originally posted by: atom
So, since when is AMD getting a cut from retailer markups? And how is this different from Intel? Intel makes a killing on the EE chips, AMD makes a killing on their FX chips, no surprises here.
I think Viditor can answer this, but its also based on distributor demand. Obviously since retailers like Newegg are selling out at inflated prices, the distributors aren't being retarded and not taking notice. Hence the distributors can mark it up. Since AMD sells directly to the distributors, they are idiots for not noticing the series of markups as well. Also I'm talking about the AM2-5000+, not even an FX chip.
A long answer coming...beware!
Firstly, dexvx is quite correct that for a DIY system, using a high-end X2 makes no sense whatsoever! So who the heck is buying the 5000+ chips (obviously they are selling somewhat, or AMD would drop the price)?
The short answer is small businesses...
1. When you are a small business (say 6-12 systems for various jobs in the company), you have a choice between a Dell/HP system or a locally made white box. The Dell/HP will almost always be less expensive on these deals, but they come with a BIG caveat...quality of service.
For example, if you have a HDD failure on a Dell, they will fix it quickly (depending on your service contract) but that means you get a new HDD and any data you had on the old HDD will be lost (Dell does NOT do data recovery at this level). The local white box guy will do everything in his power to recover your data and customize your system for your needs. For many companies this can mean a savings of thousands of dollars (depending on the data that wasn't backed up). Even if you back up your work every day, you've lost a day's work from whoever was on that system.
2. When a small business orders a number of systems, one of the most common practices is to buy a site license from Microsoft based on the number of seats. They also tend to create a single image including their common software needs...
This means that they require a single type of motherboard to allow for easy substitution and install (i.e. they install everything on one machine then clone the HDD across to all of the rest). The motherboard choice is actually the most important one in this case as it must match the needs of the company (HDTV, PATA/SATA drives, USB/Firewire, audio, on-board video, type of raid, etc...). Of course they can use different CPU speeds/memory amounts and still swap out a HDD from and to any other system in the place (which gets the guy with the most critical job a guarantee that he will be back up in minutes should his system fail).
3. So, it then comes down to which platform is best suited for the client at the best price (CPU is very much secondary). The typical scenario here would be a single mobo with a wide range of CPUs (say 5 Semprons, 4-X2 3800s, and 1-X2 5000 for the boss).
4. Enter the "Certified Business Platform" (Nvidia's for AMD chips) and "vPro" (Intel's) programs...
This certifies motherboards, chips, memory, software, etc... for those small businesses from a variety of manufacturers. It allows a more equal footing between OEMs and white box manufacturers in that it gives a broad range of testing and qualification standards for companies to help them decide on a solid platform which they can build.
AMD (and more specifically Nvidia) has certainly come a VERY long way on this in the last year (of course they had a much longer way to go vs Intel)! I would say that the 2 programs are now fairly neck-and-neck in capability and reputation...for vPro, the impression is that they have a lead in remote manageability, and the CBP has a better rep for multimedia (in general).
There are other minor differences like CBP boards are a little better in backwards compatability (they have more slots for PATA drives for example), and the vPro boards tend to incorporate ICH8 so they will have better raid functionality (including Raid 5).
These minor differences are what makes choices for businesses (do they need to use some of their older PATA drives? Do they want raid 5 incorporated? Do they do multimedia? Do they have an IT person who will manage all of the systems remotely?)
At the end of the day, Crusader is quite correct that it doesn't really matter for the vast majority of users if they have an X2 or a C2D, either will be just fine...what matters most are the platforms (including reliability and functionality) and the package price for all the systems.
Of course for almost everyone here, it matters a great deal!
BTW, to answer your question on the rationale of the 5000+ pricing, that's the "carrot" for these packages...if a white box maker can throw in a "high-end" chip that has a very high retail value at a huge discount for a package (normally for the boss's machine), then it can quite often close a sale. And remember that we're talking about a 6-12 machine deal...
AMD marketing knows this quite well (as does Intel), and that is the real value of these ultra high-end priced chips...
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