Case Fans

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Nebor
There is no concievable reason to have 6 fans. There's this thing called the law of diminishing returns. You get enough fans, and they're fighting against each other, and fighting the size of the intake\exhuast holes.

thats not true. fans in series actually double their static pressure. basically two fans moving air in the same direction in a more or less closed box are better at forcing the air through. max movement is that of one fan s ideal, not two though. having 6 fans isn't a p[roblem at all. it lets u lower rpm, or simply use low rpm fans for overall quieter operation. lower rpm = lower hum, low pitched noises are less annoying then high to boot. course make sure yyour front/side are intakes, rear exhausts, and if the fans are covered with pathetic grills with tiny holes... CUT THEM OUT!! those things turn flow into nothing.

most pc cases/fans never reach the point of diminishing returns. u'd have to have a bunch of tornados futily trying to change the cases airpressure to do that.

the fans u have now should be fine. if they aren't quite quiet enough, get a fan speed controller and hook em up. thats what i do. u only got one led? i like all led... heh might as well be lit for the same price right eh? plus, it makes it damn obvious how fast and which fan ur controlling with the dial

 

[Nebor]

No, fans are a means to an end, nothing more. There's nothing evil about them.

Exactly, the means to an end. And once you get past a couple of exhuast fans and an intake, you're at the end. It's not going to get measurably better. Your case temps are going to be within 1 degree of your ambient temps.

But people do buy thermaltake cases, so I can understand why they need 7 neon LED fans blazing away, basking in the glow of their cathodes.

Do whatever you want with your computer, just realize that that many fans aren't necessary for ANY amount of overclocking.

 

[hifisoftware]

You asked about panaflow site, well here is some pdf: http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/appliance/pdf/fba08a.pdf L1A (or simmilar 12L) can push a bit more air with same noise, so they probably marginally better. I did not like the fact that panaflows come with bare wires (no connector)

About number of fans, there is nothing evil about them, but if you can return fans I highly recommend trying different combinations now. We all know that returning to the online store is more difficult. Look here http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/cooling_guide.pdf point #8. In my particular case front fan not only added noise, but also increased temps (just by a bit, but still).

 

[HardWarrior]

Do whatever you want with your computer, just realize that that many fans aren't necessary for ANY amount of overclocking.

I spoke to the social ineptitude (Just realize...) and complete lack of imagination (My case is this way and I hate noise. You MUST be the same way I am!) exhibited by the finger-wagging class at AT. What you should do is address Oroo?s post.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Nebor
There is no concievable reason to have 6 fans. There's this thing called the law of diminishing returns. You get enough fans, and they're fighting against each other, and fighting the size of the intake\exhuast holes.

thats not true. fans in series actually double their static pressure. basically two fans moving air in the same direction in a more or less closed box are better at forcing the air through. max movement is that of one fan s ideal, not two though. having 6 fans isn't a p[roblem at all. it lets u lower rpm, or simply use low rpm fans for overall quieter operation. lower rpm = lower hum, low pitched noises are less annoying then high to boot. course make sure yyour front/side are intakes, rear exhausts, and if the fans are covered with pathetic grills with tiny holes... CUT THEM OUT!! those things turn flow into nothing.

most pc cases/fans never reach the point of diminishing returns. u'd have to have a bunch of tornados futily trying to change the cases airpressure to do that.

the fans u have now should be fine. if they aren't quite quiet enough, get a fan speed controller and hook em up. thats what i do. u only got one led? i like all led... heh might as well be lit for the same price right eh? plus, it makes it damn obvious how fast and which fan ur controlling with the dial

My case has 3 case fans. One 80mm Panaflo L1A in the power supply, one 120mm Acoustifan as the exhuast, and one 120mm Acoustifan as an intake. That's a lot less fans that 6, and yet, if I remove the intake fan, my temperatures will not change.

At some point your case gets within a degree or two of the ambient air, and so no matter how much air you pump through it, it doesn't really make a difference. That point does not require 6 fans.

 

[HardWarrior]

My case has 3 case fans. One 80mm Panaflo L1A in the power supply, one 120mm Acoustifan as the exhuast, and one 120mm Acoustifan as an intake. That's a lot less fans that 6, and yet, if I remove the intake fan, my temperatures will not change.

At some point your case gets within a degree or two of the ambient air, and so no matter how much air you pump through it, it doesn't really make a difference. That point does not require 6 fans.

None of this acknowledges the differences in our respective case configurations and load-outs. I mount 4 HD just behind two 80mm intakes. This effectively cools the HD's (my SATA's generate a surprising level of heat) but in turn borks the all-important mb cross-flow needed to augment my two rear exhausts. I compensate for this by using a 120mm door intake (a bit to the right and down of my CPU, which supplies focused air-flow over my passive NB, SB and RAM). This "normal" configuration works fine but leaves a lazy plume of warm air that wafts up the front of my large case across my opticals, which is in turn exhausted by a top-mounted 120mm.

All of my intakes are mounted on rubber grommets that decrease vibration and have the added benefit of allowing more air to be sucked into the case through manageable and easily cleaned areas. Total case fans in constant use during the summer: 6. I mount two spare 80mm fans above my PSU that snap on when internal temps hit 85 degrees. I don't depend on my 3 temp controlled PSU fans to do anything other than cool my always-warm 520w.

Case lights: Two Antec 80mm LEDs (red), two 12in. cold cathodes (blue) and one LED cannon (red). Daughter cards: 2. ?But what about the noise???? For me, it?s more than tolerable.

While this configuration may seem ?unnecessary? to some, >I< find it both logical and functional. My box has never failed due to high ambients (it's been as high as 98 degrees in my CR), and considering that I both play hard AND work hard on my box, I can't have it any other way.

 

[Nebor]

My box has never failed or errored in prime with a case temp of 50C and processor temps of 87C. Or... thereabouts. Those are temperatures my motherboard made up.

My point is, things don't need to have 200cfm going past them to run well. You're not losing any performance by not having a ton of fans.

 

[HardWarrior]

My box has never failed or errored in prime with a case temp of 50C and processor temps of 87C.

Or... thereabouts. Those are temperatures my motherboard made up.

My point is, things don't need to have 200cfm going past them to run well. You're not losing any performance by not having a ton of fans.

I'm not challenging your experiences or choices, Nebor. I'm simply trying to convey to you the fact that all of our boxes, situations and requirements are different. As such, you can't reasonably say that something which works for you MUST work for someone else. I explained in excruciating detail why six case fans works for MY configuration and requirements, after you saying that six fans are NEVER be needed. In turn, you simply ignored what I said and RE-stated what works for you as gospel. In social terms, from a community point of view how is this attitude on your part conducive to anything but constant flaming and a general tone of hostility?

I just don't understand why you seem to prefer this abusive environment, while at the time claiming you don't.

 

[Nebor]

I'm saying that I gaurantee your box will run just fine with one intake and 2 exhuast fans.

Do you really think it won't?

 

[HardWarrior]

If I was into forcing my opinion, packaged as fact, down the throats of others I could just as as easily say thay your box might run better using my methodology.

Do YOU really think it won't? To answer your qusetion, no, it wouldn't. For reasons I thought I explained qute well.

BTW, if we're going to have a discussion, do me the honor of addressing my points as I have yours. If you can't function with this needed courtesy, you turn this thread into a soakbox for you to deliver your views unchallenged, and you don't need my participation for that.

 

[Nebor]

I didn't say your machine would work better. I said it wouldn't work any worse. Mine wouldn't work any worse with your setup.

 

[Granorense]

You too are ridiculous; it may be time to stop behaving like kids.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Granorense
You too are ridiculous; it may be time to stop behaving like kids.

See what I mean about a negative atmosphere, Nebor? I don't know about you, but I don't want to be seen as behaving like this ignorant asshole without provocation. BTW idiot, it's TWO not TOO.

:laugh:

 

[FlapJack]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
If I was into forcing my opinion, packaged as fact, down the throats of others I could just as as easily say thay your box might run better using my methodology.

Do YOU really think it won't? To answer your qusetion, no, it wouldn't. For reasons I thought I explained qute well.

BTW, if we're going to have a discussion, do me the honor of addressing my points as I have yours. If you can't function with this needed courtesy, you turn this thread into a soakbox for you to deliver your views unchallenged, and you don't need my participation for that.

HardWarrior what exactly is a Soakbox? I suggest that you climb down off your SOAPBOX and shut your trap before you lose any more of the credibility you garnered in this thread before launching your overzealous, foulmouthed, attack on Granorense...

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: FlapJack

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
If I was into forcing my opinion, packaged as fact, down the throats of others I could just as as easily say thay your box might run better using my methodology.

Do YOU really think it won't? To answer your qusetion, no, it wouldn't. For reasons I thought I explained qute well.

BTW, if we're going to have a discussion, do me the honor of addressing my points as I have yours. If you can't function with this needed courtesy, you turn this thread into a soakbox for you to deliver your views unchallenged, and you don't need my participation for that.

HardWarrior what exactly is a Soakbox? I suggest that you climb down off your SOAPBOX and shut your trap before you lose any more of the credibility you garnered in this thread before launching your overzealous, foulmouthed, attack on Granorense...

What? STFU. I haven't told ANYONE that they should do this or that, or any of the other foul crap you b1tches use on each other. Do you even have a CLUE what you're talking about troll? Here's the truth: You're acting like a ponce because you don't like the way I "attack." But I never jump a person for nothing, like you JUST tried to do me. Again, STFU. I couldn't care less what you think or if you go room temp, right now. Take it to a mod next time so he can tell you to STFU too.

Next? Some of you cowards love to pick and act like the sun shines out of your butts. Bring it on. :thumbsup:

 

[gordanfreeman]

well i was against nebor's aguments here at first, but he has presented a logical argument that combined with harwarrior's inability to handle criticism maturely (read: last 2-3 posts) has started to turn my view around. nebor has a point: nearly anyone's hardware will work nearly on par (if not the same) with anyone elses' comparable hardware with only 2-3 case fans. unless you are doing some heavy duty overclocking 3 fans would likely be OK (especially if they are 120mm).

i will admit that its possible they hardware in the hotter (read: less fans) case may not last as long, but seriously in todays world the chances of you deciding to upgrade that part are higher than that part burning out first.

 

[HardWarrior]

Wake up, you mewling, arrogant crybaby. I don't have to take being talked at like a child anymore than you have to. Your opinion of me counts to the sum of zero. I'm NOT here to kiss anybody's ass or "take criticism" from people I don't know. Talk to me like an ADULT and I'll reciprocate, turn into a meatball psychologist and I'll ride you into the ground. If this bothers you then burn your computer and go hide under your bed.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Hey guys cut this crap out. I would like to get this thread back on subject because im wondering myself. Which fans are better, also why are panaflos fans so good. I would also assume panaflos are much much better than the sunons that come with the chieftec case right?

-Kevin

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Which fans are better, also why are panaflos fans so good. I would also assume panaflos are much much better than the sunons that come with the chieftec case right?

-Kevin

Papst is first in quality, very quiet and very high workmanship. Panaflo is next with their quiet wave-bearing design and longevity. Sunons aren't bad from what I understand, but not quite as good as these two. Someone mentioned here a while ago that ceramic-bearing fans are pretty good too, and last for ages.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Nebor
There is no concievable reason to have 6 fans. There's this thing called the law of diminishing returns. You get enough fans, and they're fighting against each other, and fighting the size of the intake\exhuast holes.

thats not true. fans in series actually double their static pressure. basically two fans moving air in the same direction in a more or less closed box are better at forcing the air through. max movement is that of one fan s ideal, not two though. having 6 fans isn't a p[roblem at all. it lets u lower rpm, or simply use low rpm fans for overall quieter operation. lower rpm = lower hum, low pitched noises are less annoying then high to boot. course make sure yyour front/side are intakes, rear exhausts, and if the fans are covered with pathetic grills with tiny holes... CUT THEM OUT!! those things turn flow into nothing.

most pc cases/fans never reach the point of diminishing returns. u'd have to have a bunch of tornados futily trying to change the cases airpressure to do that.

the fans u have now should be fine. if they aren't quite quiet enough, get a fan speed controller and hook em up. thats what i do. u only got one led? i like all led... heh might as well be lit for the same price right eh? plus, it makes it damn obvious how fast and which fan ur controlling with the dial

My case has 3 case fans. One 80mm Panaflo L1A in the power supply, one 120mm Acoustifan as the exhuast, and one 120mm Acoustifan as an intake. That's a lot less fans that 6, and yet, if I remove the intake fan, my temperatures will not change.

At some point your case gets within a degree or two of the ambient air, and so no matter how much air you pump through it, it doesn't really make a difference. That point does not require 6 fans.

it does at very low rpm

 

[Nebor]

Someone needs to tie a bungie cord around their waste and tie the other end to the handle, if you get my drift.

And Orooroo, I was actually reading an interesting little debate on another forum about 2 Panaflo L1As @ 5v being quieter and moving more air than 1 120mm @ 7v. Food for thought, anyways.

 

[chadomaly]

Big fan database... sortable by CFM and dBA

 

[gordanfreeman]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Wake up, you mewling, arrogant crybaby. I don't have to take being talked at like a child anymore than you have to. Your opinion of me counts to the sum of zero. I'm NOT here to kiss anybody's ass or "take criticism" from people I don't know. Talk to me like an ADULT and I'll reciprocate, turn into a meatball psychologist and I'll ride you into the ground. If this bothers you then burn your computer and go hide under your bed.

i write a nice non flaming post stating my criticisms of you and you come back strait flaming me, saying that if we treat you like an adult, you will reciprocate. well i dont know how much nicer and 'mature' i could have made my post. you just cant seem to take any criticism at all. oh well im done w/ this now and thats the last you will hear from me.

anyways i just finished an auction for 5 panaflo L1A's on Ebay. i should hopefully have them w/in 2 weeks. i plan on putting 3-4 in the case my brother and i are currently working on modding right now. i dont have much to compare them to other than my 120mm antec and 120mm thermaltake and a couple random 80mm fans that came w/ my brother's computer. the picture showed they were made in japan (apparently better than the ones made in china??) so i have high hopes for them.

 

[HardWarrior]

i write a nice non flaming post stating my criticisms of you and you come back strait flaming me, saying that if we treat you like an adult, you will reciprocate. well i dont know how much nicer and 'mature' i could have made my post. you just cant seem to take any criticism at all. oh well im done w/ this now and thats the last you will hear from me.

"harwarrior's inability to handle criticism maturely "

What makes you think ANYONE wants to hear nonsensical crap like this? Again, since you seem incapable of understanding even the basics: I'm under no obligation to accept snide, childish derision like "You can't take critisism!" If you don't flame me or otherwise point silly, ignorant prattle in my direction I will leave you alone. Again, I'm NOT going to kiss anyones ass or allow juvenile ego trips at my expense. I don't do these thing to others and will not accept them in return.

 

[HardWarrior]

:laugh: Someone else needs to stop acting like a bitter little girl at a slumber party. Toxic know-it-all nobody.