Review Cascade-X Review and Availability Thread

[Hitman928]

Review embargo I believe lifts at 9 am ET so I will update this post as soon as reviews are published. As always, if there is a review you don't see in this post that you would like to have added, please PM me.

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For Sale
10980xe and 10920x listed on Newegg but both out of stock.

 

[LikeLinus]

You're not making any sense - if there is a plug-in that utilizes all cores then surely a 3900X is going to win out over a 9900K. The 3900X is currently not much more expensive than a 9900K taking the overall platform cost into account, and offers a real upgrade path to Zen 3.

I dont personally use it and we don't have it in our production environment. It's also not used in the testing and I have no clue if it works as well as it theoretically claims. It splits the file into mutiple parts and then recombines them. Obviously there could be issues with dropped frames and such. I was just stating what I've read about as an option to combat the AE rendering issue.

 

[dmens]

Intel has nowhere to go, but up, and AMD is not holding out on putting out the best they can as soon as they can. This means Intel has no choice but to throw everything they can at the competition as soon as they can. Things are going to get interesting soon enough.

LOL, no. Intel is perfectly capable of committing suicide without anyone else helping. In a few decades Intel's demise will be taught in business schools of how to squander both an overwhelming technical advantage and a de facto monopoly on a literal money printing machine.

2020 will be a brutal year for Intel. Bank on it.

 

[Zucker2k]

Perhaps it starts at 16 cores, where the 3950X beats the 10980XE in most tasks at 77% of the price?

As for "stretch its legs", sure. Can we get some head to head benchmarks?

Here you go:

 

[krumme]

Well that is correct to an extent - 10980XE still costs noticeably more than 3950X and the platform is more expensive without an upgrade path (UNLESS intel offers some sort of Icelake based upgrade path). I hope they bring Icelake to desktop next year as I want cheaper Ryzen 4000 series.

Well it's the same argument people have when they want a cheap Intel cpu or cheap NV gpu. They want amd to lower prices. Especially NV gpu fans gets aggressive at amd new high prices and want it lower so they can get a cheaper NV gpu.
Now obviously prices is decided by supply and demand and not wishes, but that said I don't get why people absolutely want a certain name on piece of hardware.

 

[krumme]

Who in their right mind will overclock a 10980xe and draw 500+ watts on the CPU alone in order to even get close to the TR chips? You throw efficiency out of the window by doing so. It's a pretty dumb thing to do.

This. Its stock usage is already way over the top out the door. It's a factory overclocked cpu. This oc talk is nonsense. We need efficiency. Go back and look at the Broadwell HEDT line and its stock usage. This is how it should be in an office environment.

 

[TheGiant]

This. Its stock usage is already way over the top out the door. It's a factory overclocked cpu. This oc talk is nonsense. We need efficiency. Go back and look at the Broadwell HEDT line and its stock usage. This is how it should be in an office environment.

well all the reviews show hard OC to like 4.8GHz, where voltage needs to go up massively
reading around its possible to oc 9980XE to 4.2-4.4GHz without rising the voltage, so I dont think the power will go to 500W , more likely 60W UP (190W CPU rail alone at default), so 80W +from the wall, result like 250W from the CPU alone
not bad, but not good either
at 4,4GHz all core (going up from 3,3 GHz) - that is 1/3 of computing power
if I buy 3950X or this 10980XE, I need water anyway
anyway those all extremes- the BDW-E times everyone was talking about them as power hogs but comparing to todays HEDT it was walk in the park
we are moving in bad direction either with intel or amd hedt

 

[Timorous]

The issue with this statement, time and time again, is that you're going to be doing multiple things at once. Show me a benchmark that does this, and I'll look for your reply.

here is one

They do testing with multiple use cases like gaming and rendering in the background at the same time.

 

[moinmoin]

here is one

They do testing with multiple use cases like gaming and rendering in the background at the same time.

Specifically they write:

In den 19 Minuten und 10 Sekunden, die ein Ryzen 7 3700X für den Parcours aus Blender Benchmark, POV-Ray und Corona benötigt, schließt der Ryzen Threadripper 3970X einmal Blender Benchmark, siebzehn Mal POV-Ray (Multi Core) und acht Mal Corona (Multi-Core) auf jeweils acht separate zugewiesenen Kernen ab – und hat noch einen kompletten Ryzen 7 3700X quasi frei zur Verfügung.

Summary in English: a test suite by them with Blender Benchmark, POV-Ray and Corona sequentially took '19''10 min on 3700X. On 3970X they split them up to use a CCD each in parallel, and in the same time as 3700X Blender could be run once, POV-Ray 17 times and Corona 8 times, all while the fourth CCD is completely unused.

 

[DrMrLordX]

But the AMD recommended cooling solution for the 3950x is a 280mm AIO or better.

And yet they ship it with a Wraith Prism . . . (actually I might be wrong, the 3950x doesn't ship with any cooler?) Look, an NH-D15 can get a 3900x to 4.2 GHz all-core static OC pretty easily. It'll handle a 3950x stock. A good AiO would be better, but not substantially better unless you start going into static OC or you get into weird LLC/offset tweaking to try to drive up default boost clocks (which is where my cooling setup shines, I think). The 3950x likes to run at slightly lower clockspeeds than a 3900x in MT workloads to keep its TDP targets, which brings it into a better spot on its voltage/clockspeed curve and makes it relatively easy to cool despite being a 16c chip.

So you put a 3900x under a MO-RA3 with two D5 pumps! Well, I just wanted to show how far some would go to cool their desktop chips, and then make it sound like keeping an hedt adequately cool is an outlandish proposition.

Oh please. I'm about the only guy that put a 3900x under overkill water like that. Most of the people in the market for the MO-RA3 or multiple 560mm rads in serial (which is technically better) are people cooling fireball chips like the 9980XE or 2990WX. My plan was to overcome the hotspots on a 3900x with outsized ambient cooling. Turns out it didn't quite work. Such cooling makes more sense for something like a 10980XE where hotspotting isn't as big of a problem.

GN got 4.9 GHz, so these chips will respond to good cooling.

Yeah that's about what I expected. Throw "big water" at a 10980XE and I think it gains ground over what you would gain using the same cooling on a 3950X. However, my initial point was that when you start cooling a 10980XE and get the motherboard you would need to supply 300-400W to the chip and throw in the required PSU, things get really expensive. If I have a $400 x299 board and $400-$500 (or more) in cooling equipment plus a $999 CPU, I'm not really saving anything over a 3960x anymore, am I?

If you don't overclock the 10980XE with some serious water cooling, its value proposition over the 3950x fades and it finds itself in another predicament.

AMD doesn't ship the 3950X with ANY cooler.

Huh, really? I thought it shipped with Wraith Prism. I could be wrong!

I'd like to point out, though, that the 10980XE's competition is AMD's HEDT lineup, the lowest of which is the 3960X. And the 3960X kills it in almost everything (47% in multithreaded tasks, 23% if you include single-threaded tasks) and costs 42% more.

Looks like a 3960X can also be cooled adequately by TR4 air coolers as well, assuming you don't try to overclock it.

Who in their right mind will overclock a 10980xe and draw 500+ watts on the CPU alone in order to even get close to the TR chips? You throw efficiency out of the window by doing so. It's a pretty dumb thing to do.

The only use case is when you need as much performance as you can get within a 16-18c limit. The 10980XE offers OC headroom while the 3950X offers less. Kinda makes you wonder who really exists that buys machines based on those criteria.

 

[Ottonomous]

Any news on 7980/9980XE price cuts?

 

[krumme]

In a well ventilated case a wraith prism is acceptable for a 3950x. It's not different from a 3900x. A D15 or similar is imo optimal. The idea to go for water on such a low tdp processor with low oc headroom is crazy to gain like 40Mhz or so and minuscule amounts of efficiency at huge cost. I understand people do it, and it's fun, but it's in no way comparable to the 18c Intel, or rational in most setup. In my experience a D15 moves plenty of watts and can do this 2 times pressed to the max. No absolute need for all this exotic over engineering enthusiast loves big fat cooling and power supply solutions but that doesnt mean its needed.

 

[amrnuke]

Here you go:

So it pulls ahead in a lot of tests compared to an overclocked 3950X. Let's check the power consu----oh my god.

521W for 10980XE versus 251W for 3950X when overclocked. And the 3950X still beats it in some workloads.

 

[Charlie22911]

I moved my 7980xe out of my unraid box, and made it my main rig.
Delidded and lapped the die (it’s quite convex!), using a direct die frame to cool it with a EK supremacy and liquid metal.
4.8GHz at 1.25v stable, this thing draws nearly 600w in prime. It’s crazy what I’ve had to do to get this result. Intel really is stumbling, I can’t wait to pickup the 64 core threadripper.

Edit:
This is with -6 AVX2 / -8 AVX 512 offsets BTW, VRMs are the limiting factor here. I can’t imagine doing 5.1 24/7.

 

[Mopetar]

So it pulls ahead in a lot of tests compared to an overclocked 3950X. Let's check the power consu----oh my god.

521W for 10980XE versus 251W for 3950X when overclocked. And the 3950X still beats it in some workloads.

I feel that if you run it like that you should get a free T-shirt that says “My CPU causes rolling brown outs” or something along those lines.

I’m impressed it can even handle all of that though.

 

[amrnuke]

I feel that if you run it like that you should get a free T-shirt that says “My CPU causes rolling brown outs” or something along those lines.

I’m impressed it can even handle all of that though.

Half a kilowatt for an entry-level HEDT chip to reliably beat a mainstream chip... just incredible.

 

[Mopetar]

Half a kilowatt for an entry-level HEDT chip to reliably beat a mainstream chip... just incredible.

 

[Zucker2k]

521W for 10980XE versus 251W for 3950X when overclocked. And the 3950X still beats it in some workloads.

I see you're intent on turning this into an HEDT vs Mainstream debate. I wonder why. Blender 2.79 incorporates AVX optimizations, and the highly overclockable chip on the older and less power efficient process node is hit with the far greater impact. Better cooling, and even a 100MHz less overclock to 4.8GHz could make a world of difference in power consumption while still maintaining high clocks.

Yeah that's about what I expected. Throw "big water" at a 10980XE and I think it gains ground over what you would gain using the same cooling on a 3950X. However, my initial point was that when you start cooling a 10980XE and get the motherboard you would need to supply 300-400W to the chip and throw in the required PSU, things get really expensive. If I have a $400 x299 board and $400-$500 (or more) in cooling equipment plus a $999 CPU, I'm not really saving anything over a 3960x anymore, am I?

Cascade Lake-X is a drop-in upgrade for existing x299 owners. That is still a valid argument to make these days, right? And with the flagship 10980XE's and other chip prices slashed by more than half, everyone who doesn't own a 9980XE suddenly has a cheap upgrade path to 18 cores. So, for a lot of users already on x299 the 10980XE is almost an irresistible upgrade, especially if you could sell your old chip to offset the cost. The same goes for the 12, and 10 cores as well. I expect the 10980XE to fly off the shelves once they appear on the market.

 

[TheGiant]

I see you're intent on turning this into an HEDT vs Mainstream debate. I wonder why. Blender 2.79 incorporates AVX optimizations, and the highly overclockable chip on the older and less power efficient process node is hit with the far greater impact. Better cooling, and even a 100MHz less overclock to 4.8GHz could make a world of difference in power consumption while still maintaining high clocks.


Cascade Lake-X is a drop-in upgrade for existing x299 owners. That is still a valid argument to make these days, right? And with the flagship 10980XE's and other chip prices slashed by more than half, everyone who doesn't own a 9980XE suddenly has a cheap upgrade path to 18 cores. So, for a lot of users already on x299 the 10980XE is almost an irresistible upgrade, especially if you could sell your old chip to offset the cost. The same goes for the 12, and 10 cores as well. I expect the 10980XE to fly off the shelves once they appear on the market.

you have a point
we see either stock or brutal overclock beyond the efficiency point on the skl-x/cl-x
besides, saying 600W within small FFT avx512 is only the one side of the coin, second is the performance
4GHZ AVX512- fully optimised I dont think even the 64C TR3 can match it
its simply a monster...for a monster power

 

[DrMrLordX]

Cascade Lake-X is a drop-in upgrade for existing x299 owners. That is still a valid argument to make these days, right?

Drop-in replacement for what? An x299 system that already has an enormously-expensive water cooling setup and a board that can push 400W or more to the socket? The only chip you would have in there would be a 9980XE or similar, and if so, the 10980XE is now a sidegrade.

4GHZ AVX512- fully optimised I dont think even the 64C TR3 can match it

Not so fast! Go look at the Rome benchmarks vs Xeon Platinum, and watch 64c Rome win AVX512 benchmarks. That's against 28c Xeons. 64c TR3 against 18x 10980XE in an AVX512 benchmark = AMD victory. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Topweasel]

Cascade Lake-X is a drop-in upgrade for existing x299 owners. That is still a valid argument to make these days, right? And with the flagship 10980XE's and other chip prices slashed by more than half, everyone who doesn't own a 9980XE suddenly has a cheap upgrade path to 18 cores. So, for a lot of users already on x299 the 10980XE is almost an irresistible upgrade, especially if you could sell your old chip to offset the cost. The same goes for the 12, and 10 cores as well. I expect the 10980XE to fly off the shelves once they appear on the market.

The drop in upgrade for whom though. I mean for 7900 or 7920 owners maybe? Because other then that it's the same CPU, anyone who didn't get a 7900 or better didn't want to spend 1k on a CPU, I doubt they would make the move now (but a 10940 might be a good move). But then they are spending 1k on more cores for the same general performance (but more MT workload bandwith) on a system they already spent 1000+. Its great that there is an upgrade path and really great that competition forced such a drastic price reduction that what is basically the same chips can now act like an actual upgrade solution (instead of side grades like a 6700 to 7700, or 9900k to 9900ks). But I wonder how strong that market is.

That said I do think the point of comparing to other CPU's is important. That includes mainstream parts if the mainstream parts is so competitive in the area's that the chip is also supposed to be strong in. If its connectivity something like even the 10900 (or equivalent TR2 product) might be a better buy if its not its processing power. I would like to see more benchmarks that actually utilize the extra mem bandwidth though, it seems pretty rare, and might be a good way to demonstrate the value of a HDET platform over a mainstream platform when compute power is relatively equal between them.

 

[CHADBOGA]

I expect the 10980XE to fly off the shelves once they appear on the market.

Do $1,000 CPU's ever fly off the shelves?

 

[IntelUser2000]

Do $1,000 CPU's ever fly off the shelves?

Nope. CPUs such as AMD's Threadripper and Intel's X-series chips are there just as status quo. It's doubtful they sell more than few single digit million per year.

Same reason why $300K cars, $50K gold-plated iPhones exist. Or why companies do their darndest to get their products in movies and olympics and why some even use famous celebrities.

 

[Markfw]

Do $1,000 CPU's ever fly off the shelves?

Well, the 3950x, 3960x and 3970x sold out in minutes... And they go from $750 to $2000

 

[tamz_msc]

I see you're intent on turning this into an HEDT vs Mainstream debate. I wonder why.

Why shouldn't the 3950X be compared to the 10980XE? They perform about the same with the former even beating the latter in many common use cases for these CPUs.

 

[gdansk]

With shortages on-going how many will Intel even ship? They know the 9900K and its kin are more attractive relative to the competition (at least they're good at gaming).