carry concealed guns in Colorado without a permit passes house 40-25

[davmat787]

Having a serious discussion, these people were not criminals though. Thats the problem. I have said for years, the criminals, from the hood (bad people in general), are always going to commit crimes with guns. That is not going to change. The problem we have, is not them, is the everyday person, who now is armed and for whatever reason shoots somebody or unfortunately several people. That is the real issue. How do keep law abiding people from becoming gun slingers. We are losing that battle. Clearly losing.....................

I am just speechless, err typeless, after reading this. Unreal!

 

[irishScott]

Here is the problem, the people running around committing these mass shootings are not criminals. They ain't drug dealers, robbers, thieves, or pimps. They are students, school professors, and everyday ordinary people until someone gave them a gun and they flipped. Many had never even gotten a traffic fine. The criminals are the least of our problems.....

Lol wow...

Yeah it was the gun that made them crazy. They obviously weren't crazy to start with. A gun is a chunk of metal and possibly plastic, not a mind-control device.

 

[Unheard]

Here is the problem, the people running around committing these mass shootings are not criminals. They ain't drug dealers, robbers, thieves, or pimps. They are students, school professors, and everyday ordinary people until someone gave them a gun and they flipped. Many had never even gotten a traffic fine. The criminals are the least of our problems.....

OHHHH I GOT A GUN!!! Now, who do I take out first. Normally, I'm a sane person, but this chunk of metal has gotten into my bloodstream, and I'm mad with killing power! MUHAHAHAHHA


Dumbass.

 

[irishScott]

You are truly an idiot. You seriously need medication. This bill has nothing to do with color. Umm I do believe one of the latest shootings was a black dude who gunned down several people at his job. Putting more guns in the hands of people does not work. Instead it will create an even more dangerous enviroment. Get this Spidey, I live in the same, check that probably a better house and neighborhood than you. Two gang bangers will still kill themselves in the hood, where I don't live, ain't never gonna live. But walking through the mall with some pyscho path like you carrying a concealed weapon is what I am afraid of.

You know classy, think about this. You could sit 5' away from me, and I could point my CCW at you for 24 hours straight, finger off the trigger of course, and you'd be in no danger of getting shot for any reason. Most CCWs I know are the exact same way. Just think about that.

In fact we've all talked about these mass shootings you think represent the gun-owning community, and have all repeatably said if we had been on the scene with a clear shot the guy would have been down before his first mag was empty. That's the kind of people who carry concealed, that kind of person and criminals. And some in between who are basically harmless.

 

[irishScott]

OHHHH I GOT A GUN!!! Now, who do I take out first. Normally, I'm a sane person, but this chunk of metal has gotten into my bloodstream, and I'm mad with killing power! MUHAHAHAHHA


Dumbass.

Generally Speaking:
When conservatives think of guns, they think of cowboys, hunters and soldiers. When liberals think of guns, they think of psychotics, thugs and mobsters.

Moderates are usually a mix. (Go figure)

 

[Elias824]

Utah is looking at a law like that, the permit class is only like $60 here though, Honestly I don't see the class being a big barrier to being able to carry concealed and its meant to help keep the honest guys safe from doing something stupid or having an accident its just a matter of safety. Though I guess If I had to pay $160 for a class id probably be pretty pissed that's pretty over the top.

 

[Unheard]

Utah is looking at a law like that, the permit class is only like $60 here though, Honestly I don't see the class being a big barrier to being able to carry concealed and its meant to help keep the honest guys safe from doing something stupid or having an accident its just a matter of safety. Though I guess If I had to pay $160 for a class id probably be pretty pissed that's pretty over the top.

TN and GA have both looked into getting rid of the permit to carry. I have a TN, but before the end of the month I need to get a GA to stay legal (just moved here).

 

[wuliheron]

Generally Speaking:
When conservatives think of guns, they think of cowboys, hunters and soldiers. When liberals think of guns, they think of psychotics, thugs and mobsters.

Moderates are usually a mix. (Go figure)

That's because 90% of all democrats live in urban areas, while more republicans tend to live in rural areas. The closer they are to all those psychotics and criminals the more they yell for gun laws (Duh!), while the further out in the middle of nowhere the louder they demand to be able to arm themselves.

 

[classy]

Ok children calm down. 30 years ago everyday people may have fought, argued, even got into a fist fight or two. But rarely did you ever have a neighbor shoot another neighbor. Or some kid shooting some school kids. Our culture has changed to become far more violent. Guns have become a problem because now its not the criminal killing people, its the normal folks killing people. Many of these mass shooters never had a prior record and many led regualr lives just like you and I. But instead of crying at a bar over their issues and then sleeping it off years ago, now because they have the option of readily available fire power, now forget the drink, let me just shoot them. The criminal killings we will always have, its trying to slow down good people who now turn to a gun to settle their problem, those are the ones I want to slow down, not to penalize, but give them a chance to let level headed thinking maybe kick in. Maybe its because I am little older, seen more, buried more.

 

[Unheard]

Ok children calm down. 30 years ago everyday people may have fought, argued, even got into a fist fight or two. But rarely did you ever have a neighbor shoot another neighbor. Or some kid shooting some school kids. Our culture has changed to become far more violent. Guns have become a problem because now its not the criminal killing people, its the normal folks killing people. Many of these mass shooters never had a prior record and many led regualr lives just like you and I. But instead of crying at a bar over their issues and then sleeping it off years ago, now because they have the option of readily available fire power, now forget the drink, let me just shoot them. The criminal killings we will always have, its trying to slow down good people who now turn to a gun to settle their problem, those are the ones I want to slow down, not to penalize, but give them a chance to let level headed thinking maybe kick in. Maybe its because I am little older, seen more, buried more.

This makes no sense. The people 30 years ago had just as many, if not more, gun shops/ways of getting guns.

Not quite 30 years ago, but 20 a mass murder occurred in TX at a Luby's. I guess he didn't want to go and cry it off at a bar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre

To say that people today are any more violent than they were 30 years ago is ignorant. And if you are trying to correlate access to guns from then and now, that argument has more holes in it than my target after a day at the range. (That was my gun pun for the thread).

 

[spidey07]

This makes no sense. The people 30 years ago had just as many, if not more, gun shops/ways of getting guns.

Not quite 30 years ago, but 20 a mass murder occurred in TX at a Luby's. I guess he didn't want to go and cry it off at a bar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre

To say that people today are any more violent than they were 30 years ago is ignorant. And if you are trying to correlate access to guns from then and now, that argument has more holes in it than my target after a day at the range.

It was a whole lot easier to get a firearm then. No wait period, no background check. Just walk in and buy your gun.

 

[highland145]

Looks about the same as 30 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg

 

[irishScott]

Ok children calm down. 30 years ago everyday people may have fought, argued, even got into a fist fight or two. But rarely did you ever have a neighbor shoot another neighbor. Or some kid shooting some school kids. Our culture has changed to become far more violent. Guns have become a problem because now its not the criminal killing people, its the normal folks killing people. Many of these mass shooters never had a prior record and many led regualr lives just like you and I. But instead of crying at a bar over their issues and then sleeping it off years ago, now because they have the option of readily available fire power, now forget the drink, let me just shoot them. The criminal killings we will always have, its trying to slow down good people who now turn to a gun to settle their problem, those are the ones I want to slow down, not to penalize, but give them a chance to let level headed thinking maybe kick in. Maybe its because I am little older, seen more, buried more.

Or maybe you should cite some sources. You make it sound like kids are shooting their parents every hour or something. The accidental/irresponsible shootings you speak of are rare and pale in comparison to those committed by criminals. As for "seen more", you obviously haven't seen or met many gun owners if that's the impression you have.

Guns have also done plenty of good in the hands of ordinary citizens: http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/

 

[classy]

This makes no sense. The people 30 years ago had just as many, if not more, gun shops/ways of getting guns.

Not quite 30 years ago, but 20 a mass murder occurred in TX at a Luby's. I guess he didn't want to go and cry it off at a bar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre

To say that people today are any more violent than they were 30 years ago is ignorant. And if you are trying to correlate access to guns from then and now, that argument has more holes in it than my target after a day at the range. (That was my gun pun for the thread).

True but did you read the this part of what I said

"Our culture has changed to become far more violent."


And if you think as a country we are not more violent today than even 10 years ago, clearly you have been in a coma.

 

[Unheard]

Looks about the same as 30 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg

Wow, look @ the spike on that chart from when the AWB was in place. Gun control did that real good.

 

[irishScott]

True but did you read the this part of what I said

"Our culture has changed to become far more violent."


And if you think as a country we are not more violent today than even 10 years ago, clearly you have been a coma.

So we've become more violent, yet homicides are roughly the same and overall crime is actually going down. Riiiiight...

 

[highland145]

True but did you read the this part of what I said

"Our culture has changed to become far more violent."


And if you think as a country we are not more violent today than even 10 years ago, clearly you have been a coma.

Look at the chart. Murder rates 30 years ago are about the same.

 

[classy]

Or maybe you should cite some sources. You make it sound like kids are shooting their parents every hour or something. The accidental/irresponsible shootings you speak of are rare and pale in comparison to those committed by criminals. As for "seen more", you obviously have seen or met many gun owners if that's the impression you have.

Guns have also done plenty of good in the hands of ordinary citizens: http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/

Show me one drug dealer that went into a place and shot 20 people? Find me a pimp who lost his mind and decided to shoot people at a school board meeting? How many crime lords do you know of who just went nutts and decided to put a bullet in a congress womans head? You deny reality to try and defend your opinion. You argue criminals, but these tragedys aren't being committed by criminals.

 

[Unheard]

Show me one drug dealer that went into a place and shot 20 people? Find me a pimp who lost his mind and decided to shoot people at a school board meeting? How many crime lords do you know of who just went nutts and decided to put a bullet in a congress womans head? You deny reality to try and defend your opinion. You argue criminals, but these tragedys aren't being committed by criminals.

Could you define at which point a person goes from a innocent civilian to a criminal? You are really blurring the lines on this.

 

[highland145]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=31

 

[classy]

Let me also be clear here. I am not arguing about criminals, what I am saying is that allowing folks to carry a gun concealed with no weapon I believe is a mistake. Simply because we have had far too many incidents of shootings that have occured simply because a gun was present, not needed, just present.

 

[Unheard]

Let also be clear here. I am not arguing about criminals, what I am saying is that allowing folks to carry a gun concealed with no weapon I believe is a mistake. Simply because we have had far too many incidents of shootings that have occured simply because a gun was present, not needed, just present.

I understand your argument, but statistics do not back this up. These mass shootings aren't perpetuated by someone who just happens to have a gun. Columbine, VT, Luby's, were all planned. Nothing snapped while the person was there, something snapped a long time ago.

Look @ the rulings in the criminals case (if they survived). How many of them were charged with something other than *premeditated* murder.

Next, show me how many, "I have a gun, let me shoot him over a parking spot" events there are.

 

[Scotteq]

Show me one drug dealer that went into a place and shot 20 people? Find me a pimp who lost his mind and decided to shoot people at a school board meeting? How many crime lords do you know of who just went nutts and decided to put a bullet in a congress womans head? You deny reality to try and defend your opinion. You argue criminals, but these tragedys aren't being committed by criminals.

The criminals you are speaking of are killing people by the HUNDREDS.

This is just Los Angeles: http://www.laalmanac.com/crime/cr03x.htm

Last may: 19 Killings in a single week: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...week-in-la-county-at-least-6-gangrelated.html Again - I stress this is JUST Los Angeles.

These tradgedies damned well ARE being commited by criminals. They are doing it consistently, and on an ongoing basis. So kindly save the the attitude that criminals somehow don't count and somehow don't do this stuff.


{edt}

To add: Here's the FBI's stats on Justifiable, by Citizens only (No Law Enforcement)

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_15.html



By way of comparison: Here are the same stats for ONLY Law Enforcement:

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_14.html


Add them together, and the Police are 64% of the total. Citizens are 36%.




Here's the total table:

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_10.html


Please take note of the "Juvenile Gang" totals, Robbery totals, Rape totals...


Then maybe you'll come to understand how completely out of your mind you are.

 

[irishScott]

Show me one drug dealer that went into a place and shot 20 people? Find me a pimp who lost his mind and decided to shoot people at a school board meeting? How many crime lords do you know of who just went nutts and decided to put a bullet in a congress womans head? You deny reality to try and defend your opinion. You argue criminals, but these tragedys aren't being committed by criminals.

So all that matters is the magnitude of each individual act? I probably can't find you a single drug dealer that killed 20 people in a single sitting, but I can find you a shitload of drug dealers who have collectively killed far more than that.

Edit: Scotteq's stats are better.

And on www.thearmedcitizen.com alone I can show you where more than 20 lives were saved by civilian guns in just the last 2 months, and since you're refusing to acknowledge gun crime outside of psychotic massacres as a valid argument, the numbers game for civilian guns is very much in my favor.

 

[BoberFett]

You are all arguing with classy as though he's intelligent and can understand the facts you lay out for him. Good luck with that.