Carriers implementing tracking of rooted Android phones?

[poofyhairguy]

I'm the guy who thinks that you don't pay for the data you use, you pay for the right to access their network in the way they provide, which is how they justify charging separately.

You are the guy who telecom execs fantasize about in their dreams.

 

[simonizor]

Do stock Android phones allow tethering without rooting?

By stock I mean direct from HTC or other manufacturer.

Usually not. It depends on which carrier you use. Verizon takes the stock tethering/wireless sharing apps off of their phones and charges $40 or whatever a month for it. Other carriers, such as US Cellular leave their phones alone for the most part.

Verizon, Sprint, US Cellular, and a couple of other majors are CDMA. ATT, T-mobile, and a few prepaids are pretty much it for GSM. The CDMA carriers only allow their branded phones to be used on their plans. T-Mobile will allow pretty much any unlocked GSM phone, but I think ATT is more restrictive.

 

[WelshBloke]

Usually not. It depends on which carrier you use. Verizon takes the stock tethering/wireless sharing apps off of their phones and charges $40 or whatever a month for it. Other carriers, such as US Cellular leave their phones alone for the most part.

Verizon, Sprint, US Cellular, and a couple of other majors are CDMA. ATT, T-mobile, and a few prepaids are pretty much it for GSM. The CDMA carriers only allow their branded phones to be used on their plans. T-Mobile will allow pretty much any unlocked GSM phone, but I think ATT is more restrictive.

I asked because I wont be buying my phone from the carrier ( I dont live in the US anyway).

I just wanted to know if they came with native tethering apps or if I'll have to install anything.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

You are the guy who telecom execs fantasize about in their dreams.

It sucks but it's my strict interpretation of what is happening with carriers. And bitching about is will have almost no chance of doing anything because 99.999% of people do not care and the ones who do care have no power to change anything.

 

[WelshBloke]

The difference is that many people connect multiple computers to their routers regularly, while tethering is extremely rare because 99% of the people don't bother rooting and the people who do pay don't care to pay the 5 bucks or something

...

I think tethering is rare in the US precisely because you have to root or pay extra.

My carrier (tmobile UK) has a tutorial showing you how to do it on their web page and dont charge extra. I know a lot of people who tether their laptops over here. Plenty of them are as far away from being techy as you could be.

 

[WelshBloke]

It sucks but it's my strict interpretation of what is happening with carriers. And bitching about is will have almost no chance of doing anything because 99.999% of people do not care and the ones who do care have no power to change anything.

Thats bullshit. They don't provide free tethering in Europe out of the goodness of their hearts. They are the same companies as you have over there.

 

[shabby]

I just wanted to know if they came with native tethering apps or if I'll have to install anything.

Froyo has mobile ap built into it, unless of course the carrier disabled/deleted it, you can still download tethering apps from the market though.

 

[dguy6789]

I've already said it would make you in breach of contract, I was disagreeing with it being called stealing.


And I still say it isn't a carrier provided service, its something your phone does. Your carrier provides the data that you pay for. After it hits your phone they do nothing else. They may not like you doing it and may have a clause in their contract but it certainly isn't a service provided by them whether you pay or not.

Your argument would work just as well(not well) for modifying the wiring and telephone poles outside your house to get free electricity or cable tv. Using a service you do not pay for is stealing, period.

 

[WelshBloke]

Your argument would work just as well(not well) for modifying the wiring and telephone poles outside your house to get free electricity or cable tv. Using a service you do not pay for is stealing, period.

Phone company owns the cables outside your home.

Your free electricity argument is bogus. Its more like the electricity company saying you cant use your electricity supply for your TV unless you pay extra on top of your bill.

 

[s44]

This is why custom kernels are essential. The same "feature" was added in recent Fascinate leaks, but the devs just chopped it out/replaced with a dummy version.

 

[dguy6789]

Phone company owns the cables outside your home.

Your free electricity argument is bogus. Its more like the electricity company saying you cant use your electricity supply for your TV unless you pay extra on top of your bill.

If you signed a contract agreeing to the terms you can't defend yourself breaching the terms. It's very simple. You do not own your cell phone service, all you own is the cell phone. You pay to be permitted to use the service exactly as agreed upon.

 

[simonizor]

If you signed a contract agreeing to the terms you can't defend yourself breaching the terms. It's very simple. You do not own your cell phone service, all you own is the cell phone. You pay to be permitted to use the service exactly as agreed upon.

That's not the point; the point is that the data that is used for tethering is no different to the carrier than the data that would be used on the phone for browsing or whatever. You still have a limit to how much data you can use; it's not like the data that you are using for tethering costs the carrier any more, so why should it cost you more? Most of the time all they are doing is giving you access to an app that was supposed to be included with your phone in the first place.

I will never do business with a carrier that removes features from my phone and then charges me to reactivate them.

 

[dguy6789]

That's not the point; the point is that the data that is used for tethering is no different to the carrier than the data that would be used on the phone for browsing or whatever. You still have a limit to how much data you can use; it's not like the data that you are using for tethering costs the carrier any more, so why should it cost you more, especially when all they are doing half of the time is giving you access to an app that was supposed to be included with your phone in the first place.

I will never do business with a carrier that removes features from my phone and then charges me to reactivate them.

Make no mistake, I think the carriers charging more for tethering vs not when the data usage is the same is complete and total bs. That has nothing to do with how contracts work however. Whether the contract is bogus or not, it's not okay to sign it and then later breach it and say it's okay because the terms of the contract were stupid. If people seriously want to get this changed they would have to boycott the companies en mass. We all know that will never happen.

 

[WelshBloke]

If you signed a contract agreeing to the terms you can't defend yourself breaching the terms. It's very simple. You do not own your cell phone service, all you own is the cell phone. You pay to be permitted to use the service exactly as agreed upon.

So breach of contract then not stealing? 😎

 

[dguy6789]

If you want to call using something you're not paying for not stealing then be my guest.

 

[WelshBloke]

If you want to call using something you're not paying for not stealing then be my guest.

/headdesk

You are paying. What are you not paying for that the carrier supplies?

You are not using it in the way the carrier wants as per the contract.

 

[Fire&Blood]

As long you are under the contract terms you signed, you have no one to blame but yourself (and the mobile market in the USA).

Even without the imminent merger of AT&T&T, carriers have the vast majority of customers by the balls.

Early termination fees, inconvenience of switching carriers, coverage issues, phone choices all work in the favor of customer retention by the carriers.

The subsidy model and phone exclusivity deals are the root of the evil here. AT&T, Sprint and Verizon have effectively switched the burden of competing onto the customers.

The current situation in the cellphone market is a reversed competition. Instead of competing with pricing and service, carrier A is competing by jacking up prices and using the retention methods to discourage switching while carriers B and C will follow the trend for higher profit margins.

It's sad that carriers are providing speeds that exceed many DSL/cable connections in speed yet only offer 2-5% of monthly bandwidth and with a hefty tethering charge should you try it and a even additional charges if you go over your pitiful bandwidth allowance.

The subsidy model and current trends empower the carriers proving that despite on paper choice of 4 major carriers, it's a gang bang because when one looks at the options/cost of switching carriers he realizes it's futile.

Crucial financial aspect here is that with a 24 month contract, carriers can absorb the cost of the phone and then make a killing off of you before your contract expires.

It will only get worse once T-Mobile is gone, while they have have poor coverage and poor phone selection their pricing keeps the other 3 appetite in check... for now.

That being said, I approve of "stealing" the tethering from carriers if one can get away with it. There are no reasonable methods to fight quad monopoly any other way.

I will take my above statement back if I ever get a refund for the 4G fee I was paying without actually having 4G, if I get a refund for the full data plan I was charged without having 3G for the first half of the G1 contract or if I get a refund for all those months where I didn't use up the monthly bandwidth allowance.


The only way this could have been averted would have been in 2005, but no authority would have forced OEM's to manufacture phones for all carriers and US consumers are reluctant to pay for devices outright.

2005 was the last exit to a more consumer friendly, rest of the world like system. But we passed it going full speed on the rip off highway.

 

[AnMig]

Thanks for the heads up, will stay on 2.2.1 Liberty 1.5 rom on my Droid X until this is sorted out by the Android community.

I Dont use tethering a lot but it is quite useful when I am at work to avoid those pesky work filters.

Peace

 

[Kabob]

Android, yet one step closer to becoming the new Apple.

Phandroid's writeup on the OP's article:

I read a troubling thread over at MyDroidWorld this weekend from famed community developer P3Droid. His report spoke of an industry-wide movement to crack down on users who root their devices. Yes, tethering your data is a violation of your contract and any carrier has the right to shut you down and make you pay for that right. But it’s more than just “illegal” use of data if he’s to be believed.

Starting with the locked bootloader trkend that seems to be taking off, it seemed Motorola was the only manufacturer keen on locking their devices down for one reason or another, but P3Droid says that isn’t the case. (We know HTC’s newer line of phones implement newer, tougher security.) It’s a mix of carriers, OEMs, and Google themselves working together to find ways to better “protect” users. This means implementing security features that circumvents common exploits used to gain root access.
The end result is supposed to ensure that no malicious applications can steal a user’s data. (Something that has actually become a reality as of late.) That’s noble, but the next bit of information is what really worries me – carriers and OEMs are supposedly beginning to implement tracking applications that will allow them to know who’s on a rooted phone and carrying out actions such as unauthorized tethering. He reports that there are several different methods they implement.

They can simply see which MEID numbers refuse over the air updates. It’s common for custom ROM developers to disable that functionality to ensure the users of those ROMs aren’t interrupted. (And to make sure any OTA doesn’t somehow brick their phones.) Verizon seemed to be the first, but he reports that all major carriers have expressed their interest in it and are pleased with how well it works. It’s not yet known which devices carry this tracking application, if any at all.

“So why don’t developers just remove that tracking application?” That’s a good question, but a horrible answer is to follow – your phone would no longer be able to operate on the network via voice or data. And if the carriers don’t want to go to such extremes, they could simply just throttle your data speeds – Verizon reportedly successfully tested this on several devices that met the conditions.

None of this is confirmed, but P3Droid is a name that we trust after all he’s done for the development community. None of this is 100% going down for now, but just the thought of it is quite unsettling. If true, we hope Google and its partners reconsider such practices and come up with better ways to protect the users who they claim they’re protecting. (It really sounds like they’re just intending to punish the users that they can’t trust with their chain-free devices.) What are your thoughts on all of this?

 

[Puddle Jumper]

AT&T can track my rooted Captivate all they want, rooting is legal so the can't do anything about it.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I think theres just more competition over here, same with ISP's.

Quad band is 850/900/1800/1900 ( I think) that should cover everything. Must modern smartphones are quadband.

Most modern smartphones are quadband 2G. Not quadband 3G. The iPhone and Nokia N8 are pentaband phones, but EVERY HTC phone so far has had a 900/2100 Euro/Asia version and then a separate 850/1900 NAM/LATAM version.

Even the Samsung Phones this applies to. Moto's Milestone was 2100 Euro only and we had to wait for the Telus 850 version to come out to use on AT&T.

So while you can use the 2G features no problem, this makes no sense. The Samsung Galaxy S II does change things up with quad band 3G though.

Edit: I think the title of this thread is misleading. They're not tracking if you rooted or not. They're tracking if you are using services that only come with rooting. Or really why does it matter if you're rooted or not? They're tracking whether you're using services you PAID FOR OR NOT.

Whether you like it or not (and I hate the tethering options out there, I believe data is data), you need to abide by carrier rules. I think it's VERY hard to track whether your phone is rooted or not unless you had malware that invades your privacy tracking stuff on your phone.

So essentially what's happening is that carriers are tracking whether you are paying for your services or not. Essentially, if you are tethering and not paying for it, it's clear you're rooted. But this has nothing to do with rooting if you use unlocked phones on a GSM network. The whole world knows this. So just because you have to root to tether on VZW, doesn't mean they're tracking if you rooted or not. It's just that to tether you must root. In the GSM world, you can bring any phone onto your carrier and tether if it has vanilla android. This has nothing to do with rooting.

The title of this thread is confusing and misleading.

 

[Munky]

It's stealing in the sense that you're accessing a service that you really didn't pay for. You can argue the semantics all day long but in the case the Verizon & AT&T you have to purchase a tethering plan in addition to your data plan.

Hell, I'll admit I've been using unauthorized tethering off and on for quite a while. I knew I shouldn't be doing it since it's an extra fee but it's a chance I took fully knowing the risks. If Verizon sends me a super huge bill for data fees, I'm at fault and will have to pay.

What service is that? The user pays for a data plan, and he's accessing data. Just because the carriers want to charge you extra for the ability to transmit that data to the PC, doesn't mean the user is under obligation to pay for it.

 

[cronos]

This is why you don't buy your phone from the carrier (and why carriers shouldn't sell phones).

 

[QueBert]

This is why you don't buy your phone from the carrier (and why carriers shouldn't sell phones).

Um, if I buy a phone full price directly from HTC or Motorola, that doesn't mean Verizon will be okay with me tethering. Where else are you going to buy a phone?

 

[SunnyD]

Apparently they know you're rooted and attempting to steal data without paying.

What the carriers need to realize (which they will after a lawsuit) is TOUGH SHIT. It's 100% legal to root your phone and it's 100% illegal for them to do anything about it.