Carriers implementing tracking of rooted Android phones?

[Phobic9]

Just read an interesting post by p3droid (android hacker/leaker) and he's basically saying that carriers are starting to tighten their grip on rooted phones. He mentions this isn't just a Verizon/Motorola thing but it's becoming industry wide.

Link: http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013

Apparently, the latest Gingerbread leak for the Droid X/2 already has some of the new security features in place as some people have reported loss of their 3G signal after trying to use any tethering services. I've tried it and it does indeed disable 3G service until you reboot or go activate/deactivate airplane mode. Also the latest leak is also said to "put you on Verizon's radar". Apparently they know you're rooted and attempting to steal data without paying.

The only thing that gets me is that if p3droid knew about all of this, why did he leak all those builds and hacks anyway?

Edit: He said on his Twitter page it was a tough decision to leak what he did. Not like it was some secret documents on Kennedy or anything.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Hmmm, the golden age of tinkering with phones seems to be drawing to a close

 

[WelshBloke]

Just read an interesting post by p3droid (android hacker/leaker) and he's basically saying that carriers are starting to tighten their grip on rooted phones. He mentions this isn't just a Verizon/Motorola thing but it's becoming industry wide.

Link: http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013

Apparently, the latest Gingerbread leak for the Droid X/2 already has some of the new security features in place as some people have reported loss of their 3G signal after trying to use any tethering services. I've tried it and it does indeed disable 3G service until you reboot or go activate/deactivate airplane mode. Also the latest leak is also said to "put you on Verizon's radar". Apparently they know you're rooted and attempting to steal data without paying.

The only thing that gets me is that if p3droid knew about all of this, why did he leak all those builds and hacks anyway?

Edit: He said on his Twitter page it was a tough decision to leak what he did. Not like it was some secret documents on Kennedy or anything.

How is it stealing data if I'm specifically paying for data.

 

[Phobic9]

Indeed it does, but I understand why. Carriers are losing tons of money whether it's from needless warranty exchanges (rooted/bricked phones) to unauthorized tethering. They have to do something.

 

[Anubis]

How is it stealing data if I'm specifically paying for data.

its not, using 2 GB of data on your phone or tethering it to your laptop and using 2GB of data is the same data wise

VZW just wants you to pay he extra 30$ a month to be able to do that

 

[Phobic9]

How is it stealing data if I'm specifically paying for data.

Tethering is separate from the data you're already paying for... Unless you're paying for a tethering plan. There's no way to tether your phone unless you're rooted or you have a hack which is what the carriers do not want.

Well, Verzon is giving free tethering on 4G phones at the moment and they had it free on the Pre+.

 

[WelshBloke]

Tethering is separate from the data you're already paying for... Unless you're paying for a tethering plan. There's no way to tether your phone unless you're rooted or you have a hack which is what the carriers do not want.

Well, Verzon is giving free tethering on 4G phones at the moment and they had it free on the Pre+.

Plenty of phones tether without hacking. You dont have to buy phones from your carrier. That is I presume you're aloud to use your own phone (as opposed to a carrier provided one).

If I've payed for my phone I'll do what I want with it, also if I've payed for 5gigs of data I'll do what I want with that too (as long as its legal).

 

[Pliablemoose]

Plenty of phones tether without hacking. You dont have to buy phones from your carrier. That is I presume you're aloud to use your own phone (as opposed to a carrier provided one).

If I've payed for my phone I'll do what I want with it, also if I've payed for 5gigs of data I'll do what I want with that too (as long as its legal).

That's fine and dandy across the pond, where your carriers aren't intent on squeezing the last penny out of it's customers, here, you can't put non approved phones on Verizon or Sprint's network, ATT& TMobile are the only 3 major GSM carriers and their 3G bands are incompatible so you can't switch.

What's happening is BS, Google cracking down on customization and carriers shutting down rooted phones and unauthorized tethering.

"Open" didn't last very long for us

 

[NikolaeVarius]

That's fine and dandy across the pond, where your carriers aren't intent on squeezing the last penny out of it's customers, here, you can't put non approved phones on Verizon or Sprint's network, ATT& TMobile are the only 3 major GSM carriers and their 3G bands are incompatible so you can't switch.

What's happening is BS, Google cracking down on customization and carriers shutting down rooted phones and unauthorized tethering.

"Open" didn't last very long for us

Wow. Not sure how what is happening is BS. Openess doesn't have to do anything with carriers and 100% with the source code itself. You cannot use "open" when you're talking about carriers as it simply doesn't apply.

As for Google, they're not cracking down on customization. They're cracking down on fragmentation by saying that they will not give preferential treatment to companies who don't release updates in reasonable amounts of time. Android is still open. You still have the source code to do anything with and customize do your liking. And don't bring up the Xoom. It's not closed source. They're fixing it up before releasing the full source code. If they never released it, sure it would closed source, but that isn't the case.

As for carriers. They really can't do anything it the phone is rooted. Nothing wrong with rooting the phone itself. As for the network, they can do whatever they want with it. it sucks, but it's their right to regulate how you use their network. if they don't want you to tether without paying, its their right to do so.

It sucks, but what are you going to do about it.

 

[WelshBloke]

That's fine and dandy across the pond, where your carriers aren't intent on squeezing the last penny out of it's customers, here, you can't put non approved phones on Verizon or Sprint's network, ATT& TMobile are the only 3 major GSM carriers and their 3G bands are incompatible so you can't switch.

What's happening is BS, Google cracking down on customization and carriers shutting down rooted phones and unauthorized tethering.

"Open" didn't last very long for us

I didnt know that. You really cant buy a phone direct from, say HTC, and use it? You have to buy if from the carrier?


I understand that CDMA phones are different (we dont have those) but wouldn't a multi band phone work with all the GSM carriers?

 

[aceO07]

.. Apparently they know you're rooted and attempting to steal data without paying. ..

It's not stealing since it's data that has been purchased. It arrives to the phone in the same way whether it's tethered or not.

It's like paying for metered electricity, but being told it's only for microwaves and refrigerators. It's a 'hack' if you try to use it for your air conditioner.

Whatever is done with the data should be up to the user as long as they don't exceed the amount of data they paid for.

Using words like 'stealing' or 'hack' is just misleading. They're the words that service providers would prefer you use so it can mislead more people.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I didnt know that. You really cant buy a phone direct from, say HTC, and use it? You have to buy if from the carrier?

Your esn has to be in their database for it to be activated (CDMA phones on Verizon & Sprint)

I understand that CDMA phones are different (we dont have those) but wouldn't a multi band phone work with all the GSM carriers?

Yes, but there aren't very many of them, cheaper to go with a carrier branded phone, they've had incompatible bands for some time now...

From what I read, the Euro carriers are much more customer/data/tether friendly.

We're screwed over here.

 

[WelshBloke]

Your esn has to be in their database for it to be activated (CDMA phones on Verizon & Sprint)

Yes, but there aren't very many of them, cheaper to go with a carrier branded phone, they've had incompatible bands for some time now...

From what I read, the Euro carriers are much more customer/data/tether friendly.

We're screwed over here.

I think theres just more competition over here, same with ISP's.

Quad band is 850/900/1800/1900 ( I think) that should cover everything. Must modern smartphones are quadband.

 

[dguy6789]

It's not stealing since it's data that has been purchased. It arrives to the phone in the same way whether it's tethered or not.

It's like paying for metered electricity, but being told it's only for microwaves and refrigerators. It's a 'hack' if you try to use it for your air conditioner.

Whatever is done with the data should be up to the user as long as they don't exceed the amount of data they paid for.

Using words like 'stealing' or 'hack' is just misleading. They're the words that service providers would prefer you use so it can mislead more people.

It's stealing because the user signed a contract agreeing to such terms. Nobody likes the way US carriers handle tethering, but it is definitely stealing.

 

[WelshBloke]

It's stealing because the user signed a contract agreeing to such terms. Nobody likes the way US carriers handle tethering, but it is definitely stealing.

Its not stealing, you may technically be in breach of contract but its not stealing (as long as you are paying for data and dont go over your allowance).

 

[Pliablemoose]

As for Google, they're not cracking down on customization. They're cracking down on fragmentation by saying that they will not give preferential treatment to companies who don't release updates in reasonable amounts of time. Android is still open. You still have the source code to do anything with and customize do your liking. And don't bring up the Xoom. It's not closed source. They're fixing it up before releasing the full source code. If they never released it, sure it would closed source, but that isn't the case.

It sucks, but what are you going to do about it.

That's inaccurate, Google doesn't care if they don't issue updates or not, they care about Android being modified for competitors purposes:

Google has been demanding that Android licensees abide by "non-fragmentation clauses" that give Google the final say on how they can tweak the Android code—to make new interfaces and add services—and in some cases whom they can partner with.

Specifically the Facebook Android variants and those with Bing search as the default.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_15/b4223041200216.htm

And there are always options, Android has been very mod friendly and the carriers have been lax about enforcing rules.

 

[Phobic9]

Its not stealing, you may technically be in breach of contract but its not stealing (as long as you are paying for data and dont go over your allowance).

It's stealing in the sense that you're accessing a service that you really didn't pay for. You can argue the semantics all day long but in the case the Verizon & AT&T you have to purchase a tethering plan in addition to your data plan.

Hell, I'll admit I've been using unauthorized tethering off and on for quite a while. I knew I shouldn't be doing it since it's an extra fee but it's a chance I took fully knowing the risks. If Verizon sends me a super huge bill for data fees, I'm at fault and will have to pay.

 

[WelshBloke]

It's stealing in the sense that you're accessing a service that you really didn't pay for. You can argue the semantics all day long but in the case the Verizon & AT&T you have to purchase a tethering plan in addition to your data plan.

Hell, I'll admit I've been using unauthorized tethering off and on for quite a while. I knew I shouldn't be doing it since it's an extra fee but it's a chance I took fully knowing the risks. If Verizon sends me a super huge bill for data fees, I'm at fault and will have to pay.

The carrier provides no extra service if you pay for tethering. You dont access tethering through your carrier, its purely a function of your phone. You acess data through your carrier and its the same data whether you're tethering or not.

If you pay for tethering they don't send you your data in a different way, there is no extra carrier provided service that you are accessing.

 

[shabby]

It's stealing in the sense that you're accessing a service that you really didn't pay for.

American companies are monetizing every single little thing these days, people are getting sick of it. Imagine if your internet isp charged you extra for tethering more computers to your router to access the internet, would you pay extra for this? No, you'd scream bloody murder. So why is it ok for cell carriers to do it?

The data is already paid for, what difference does it make if its shared between multiple devices?

 

[foghorn67]

The carrier provides no extra service if you pay for tethering. You dont access tethering through your carrier, its purely a function of your phone. You acess data through your carrier and its the same data whether you're tethering or not.

If you pay for tethering they don't send you your data in a different way, there is no extra carrier provided service that you are accessing.

You can say all that until you are blue in the face. But the fact of that matter is, you are using a service you didn't pay for.
So no matter what your opinion is, they can terminate your contract and tell you to go somewhere else.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

American companies are monetizing every single little thing these days, people are getting sick of it. Imagine if your internet isp charged you extra for tethering more computers to your router to access the internet, would you pay extra for this? No, you'd scream bloody murder. So why is it ok for cell carriers to do it?

The data is already paid for, what difference does it make if its shared between multiple devices?

The difference is that many people connect multiple computers to their routers regularly, while tethering is extremely rare because 99% of the people don't bother rooting and the people who do pay don't care to pay the 5 bucks or something

There is no incentive to not charge for seperate tethering access so they get away with it.

I personally don't care that much and think that companies have the right to dictate how you use their network. I'm the guy who thinks that you don't pay for the data you use, you pay for the right to access their network in the way they provide, which is how they justify charging separately.

 

[JD50]

What a bunch of bullshit.

 

[WelshBloke]

You can say all that until you are blue in the face. But the fact of that matter is, you are using a service you didn't pay for.
So no matter what your opinion is, they can terminate your contract and tell you to go somewhere else.

I've already said it would make you in breach of contract, I was disagreeing with it being called stealing.


And I still say it isn't a carrier provided service, its something your phone does. Your carrier provides the data that you pay for. After it hits your phone they do nothing else. They may not like you doing it and may have a clause in their contract but it certainly isn't a service provided by them whether you pay or not.

 

[WelshBloke]

Do stock Android phones allow tethering without rooting?

By stock I mean direct from HTC or other manufacturer.

 

[ew915]

Android stinks more and more, with the current direction it shouldn't have any problems to become the most rotten mobile os.