Carl Sagan: Can we know the universe?

Phuz

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Jul 15, 2000
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Essay by Carl Sagan.

This is an amazing essay.
It really changed my train of thought and made me think..

What do you believe?

Why do you think we can/can not know the universe? (within reason)

This is my response to the question so far, in an oral that I am presenting to my class.

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It is very unlikely that the human race will ever fully understand the universe. Man just wasn?t meant to grasp all the enigmas that are presented in the world. Carl Sagan once said: ?Our perceptions may be distorted by training and prejudice or merely because of the limitations of our sense organs, which, of course perceive directly but a small fraction of the phenomena of the world.? (Sagan) Long ago, the peoples of the past were confident they understood all aspects of the world, and its creation. However, it is very easy for ones philosophies to be altered quickly when faced with new evidence and ideas. In the current state of evolution, the human mind, through physical or mental limitations, cannot understand all, or even most, of the world?s mysteries and happenings. Man is a curious animal and that curiosity, coupled with man?s desire to ?understand?, pushes him forward towards knowledge. Some things are meant to be understood, and some things clearly are not.

It will be a long time before we are able to leave this galaxy and explore the universe as the seas were explored in the past. Humans were created with a small planet in mind, and man?s body was not meant to live in any other atmosphere. As time has gone by, humans have learnt to adapt to the green world more commonly known as earth. The human lungs can only breathe the rich oxygen that trees and plants produce. We are tuned to a very specific climate. The cycle of life is dependent on too many variables. The idea of these variables being created again somewhere else in the universe to provide a new home for man is a very interesting possibility. If it were ever possible to leave our galaxy, it would be a challenge just to survive upon arrival. Although humans are very impressive mammals, they are just far too dependent on their native habitat to endure a drastic change.

Human beings are strongly motivated to find regularities and natural laws that determine the structure of the universe. The search for these rules and understanding of them is called science. The universe forces those who live in it to understand it. That?s not to say that man has not made amazing discoveries. Being able to map a piece of the Universe is certainly worth mentioning, but what about being able to travel in it? It is the inner curiosity innate to human beings that drive them to learn and understand more about their surroundings. It is too early to tell whether or not people will be able to explore the galaxies of the universe like the early settlers explored the great seas. However, technology has advanced to such a degree that journeys across space seem entirely plausible in the future.

If, at this point in time, man still cannot decipher why the atoms of a grain of salt hold themselves together like they do, then it is highly doubtful that the human race will understand wormholes in the near future. Where does one begin if they have no idea how to identify what they are trying to understand? How much is happening around the world that can?t be seen, heard or felt? People lack the natural ability and senses to detect everything going on around them. Tiny objects floating through the air are not visible, nor felt. They are so fine that our vision cannot detect them, and our bodies cannot feel them. If this is any example, it goes to show that the human body wasn?t meant to detect and understand everything around it, as it just was not made to sense and be aware of the finer details happening around it.

At our current rate, it is hard to believe that we will last long enough to see the rest of the universe. Take the fall of Rome for example. It was a horrible time for humanity--the destruction of art, the collapse of great cities and the fall of the most advanced architecture the world had ever seen. It is hard to imagine that any good came out of it, but some did. It seems that whenever society advances to a certain point, something happens to restart the process of development. Einstein once said ?I know not with which weapons World War III will be fought with, but World War IV, will be fought with sticks and stones.? The world will be responsible for its own destruction. In Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury depicts a world where technological developments have created an easier place to live. The cost, however, is a time of censorship and a place where there is far too much emphasis control. The powers and governments of the planet have forced society to the point of self destruction. (Bradbury Quote #1)


It can only be hoped that some day the world?s secrets can be understood to a greater degree than they are in the present. The theories that are proposed today on things like black holes are merely ?guesstimations?. Because there is no way to truly observe them, it has been almost impossible to learn more about them. The nature of the human race, however, will not allow something such as black holes to be seen and not understood. It is only a matter of time before the initiative is taken to further understand them. Technologies will be developed for the sole cause of greater knowledge. When even the origins of our very planet are a mystery, one must wonder if there are some things that should not be known!
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Phuz


 

IcePhoenix

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Dec 22, 2001
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Carl Sagan is amazing. In astronomy class last year, we saw all of his series, Cosmos. It was amazing. Sure the info is a tad dated, but much of it is excellent. I wanted to buy it on DVD, but its like $170. Where did you find this essay?
 

Phuz

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Jul 15, 2000
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The linked essay was in a Science and Society text I use for grade 13. My text isn't virtual, so I searched for the essay. :)

The essay in the post is mine, and I need to double it in length :\


I'm developing the following points..

1. Humans depend on rules and laws, which will be destroyed as we learn more about the universe. (black holes = physics screwed)
2. We only use whatever percentage (small) of our brain.
 

Hayabusa Rider

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Short answer no. Let me ask this. Can a chimp know the universe? Dog? Mouse? Worm? Bacteria? Notice I have listed these organisms in decending order if intelligence. Each can "know" what it can perceive and understand. In this context they know what is knowable for them. The universe is what it is however. Likewise, we can know what we can know. No more. If we had unlimited capacity, then we would have unlimited understanding. Not the case however. And despite what Sagan says, we cannot record what we cannot grasp. Unless you think we humans omnipotent, there is your answer.
 

Phuz

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Jul 15, 2000
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<< Likewise, we can know what we can know. No more. >>



Yes, but whos to determine when the limit is reached, and we've learnt all we can?
We learn something everyday.
 

Hayabusa Rider

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You cannot know the answer to that question. Kurt Godel said that within any system there are unknowable unprovable truths (and falsities). The only to know what can be known is to be in a "higher" system that contains the smaller. From there you "get" it. So... to know what humans can know you have to be literally superhuman. You must have a conprehension far above mortal man. Then you can know what humans can know. The catch 22? That superior being cant know what it cant know :D
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
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short answer yes:.


perhaps our current bodies and minds cannot understan all (I happen to agree with that) but I hardly think we will remain like this forever, and forever is a looooooooooooong time indeed.

If you could go 2000 years into the future, do you think we'd still be as we are today? My answer is "hell no". Eventually we will start enhancing our bodies and minds, whether with genetic engineering or computer implants or both. Eventually we will know everthing....
 

Martin

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<< So Marty- What about Godel? >>



I didnt see that before I posted, I guess it sorta ties in with what I said. We can't percieve and learn everything in our current from, but what if we make ourselves into "superhumans"? Certainly possible, though like Phuz, said, I'm not sure we can last that long....hehe
 

kami

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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<< We'll destroy ourselves before 2000 years go by.. >>


Bah. You've seen too much sci-fi.

I think humans have a bright future, of course there will be many (and possibly damaging) bumps on the road but in 2000 years I think we'll be more technologically advanced than we could ever dream of right now.
 

Phuz

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Jul 15, 2000
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<< Bah. You've seen too much sci-fi.

I think humans have a bright future, of course there will be many (and possibly damaging) bumps on the road but in 2000 years I think we'll be more technologically advanced than we could ever dream of right now.
>>




I study these concepts constantly... and I don't read that much Sci-Fi.

Having said that, I would have to disagree. History proves that we develop to a certain point, and usually fall to our own demise. (Rome).
Considering we are using and creating chemicals and powers that we can't "dis-create".. (nuclear)
There are many nuclear nations. I don't see how we'll last.

Einstein believed that the next major war wouldn't be fought with weapons, but stick and stones.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
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<< Einstein believed that the next major war wouldn't be fought with weapons, but stick and stones. >>




no, it was something like: "I know not what weapons WWIII will be fough with with, but WWIV will be fough with sticks and stones".


Its true that empires eventually dwindle (which makes me wonder how long the US and west in general will last....), but then they are replaced by ones more mighty and life goes on...

There is a possiblity that we won't be here for the year 4k, but that's a small chance.
 

Barnaby W. Füi

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Aug 14, 2001
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<<

<< Einstein believed that the next major war wouldn't be fought with weapons, but stick and stones. >>




no, it was something like: "I know not what weapons WWIII will be fough with with, but WWIV will be fough with sticks and stones".


Its true that empires eventually dwindle (which makes me wonder how long the US and west in general will last....), but then they are replaced by ones more mighty and life goes on...

There is a possiblity that we won't be here for the year 4k, but that's a small chance.
>>


once we start populating other planets, i think it's gonna be damn hard to whipe out the human race, short of the sun blowing up, and that'll be 4 1/2 billion years from now, when humans will either be gone or be gods.

or something.
 

NeoV

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Apr 18, 2000
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let me first say that Carl Sagan was a truly, truly brilliant man...


Can anyone alive in 1920 have thought that the human genome would be mapped within 80 years? Did they even have any idea what the human genome was? DNA?

The pace of scientific knowledge in the past 50 years has been absolutely staggering, more accelerated that any period of learning in the history of man. I don't see any reason for that to slow down at all. There are the 'doomsday' pessimists who say we will destroy ourselves, and I suppose in light of the state of the world today those are valid concerns. History, at least the history of humankind though, is not cyclical. True, many great empires of man have crumbled to the ground, Rome definetly among them, but there is no reason to assume that will happen over and over again. At some point in our future, perhaps not the future that we or any of our children will see, but some generation of mankind will likely see a world united, with problems like hunger, disease, and access to good medicine/hospitals wispers of harsher times. Technology and scientific knowledge will be that uniting bridge, with cures for cancer, resources from other bodies in our solar system, and genetic enhancements in our foods, our surroundings, and our own bodies. Terrorism, war, and fighting will seemingly always be a part of mankind's future. Should we prove able to overcome this inherent trait, our future and knowledge will be virtually unlimited, for as much as conflict is a part of who we are, so is the desire to learn, to pry, and to figure things out, no matter how far reaching that may seem.

 

Hayabusa Rider

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Jan 26, 2000
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<< let me first say that Carl Sagan was a truly, truly brilliant man... Can anyone alive in 1920 have thought that the human genome would be mapped within 80 years? Did they even have any idea what the human genome was? DNA? The pace of scientific knowledge in the past 50 years has been absolutely staggering, more accelerated that any period of learning in the history of man. I don't see any reason for that to slow down at all. There are the 'doomsday' pessimists who say we will destroy ourselves, and I suppose in light of the state of the world today those are valid concerns. History, at least the history of humankind though, is not cyclical. True, many great empires of man have crumbled to the ground, Rome definetly among them, but there is no reason to assume that will happen over and over again. At some point in our future, perhaps not the future that we or any of our children will see, but some generation of mankind will likely see a world united, with problems like hunger, disease, and access to good medicine/hospitals wispers of harsher times. Technology and scientific knowledge will be that uniting bridge, with cures for cancer, resources from other bodies in our solar system, and genetic enhancements in our foods, our surroundings, and our own bodies. Terrorism, war, and fighting will seemingly always be a part of mankind's future. Should we prove able to overcome this inherent trait, our future and knowledge will be virtually unlimited, for as much as conflict is a part of who we are, so is the desire to learn, to pry, and to figure things out, no matter how far reaching that may seem. >>



Sounds nice. Does it answer if we can know the universe. And by the way, what do we mean by know. Semantics are important
 

Phuz

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Jul 15, 2000
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Wow NeoV, amazing post.

I'll write a response when I get home tomorrow :)