Carfax question

[ViviTheMage]

Looking at a 2009 BMW and the carfax is a little weird:

It's odd the carfax shows NO history before 55k miles or about 2012...how's that even possible?

 

[Meghan54]

When we were looking around at trucks for the few weeks we looked, I ran across two that had no Carfax records until a second owner took possession. One was about the mileage yours had, one was around 30K. Both had a few years between being built and presumably its initial sale and when Carfax picked it up.

What I'm wondering is if the vehicle was originally in another country at first, like Canada or Mexico. I did find one that had been imported by the owner from Mexico, but Carfax had picked up on that and was noted in the records.

But that's about the only thing I've been able to surmise about those strange records. If the vehicles were registered anywhere in the U.S., Carfax should be able to note it...titles and such don't much get by Carfax these days. I have noticed Carfax can make mistakes in the number of owners, such as ascribing too many owners when the vehicle moves to another state or the like, but to have absolutely no record of it for a good portion of its life.....like you said, almost makes no sense.

 

[dbk]

My friend almost bought a BMW with the same situation... no history before about 40k miles. Turns out that the seller's father bought the car in Europe while he was stationed over there and had it shipped to the States. He passed on it.

 

[ViviTheMage]

My friend almost bought a BMW with the same situation... no history before about 40k miles. Turns out that the seller's father bought the car in Europe while he was stationed over there and had it shipped to the States. He passed on it.

That sounds interesting ... is there an international equivalent to carfax? I imagine BMW probably knows the origination country of the car...

 

[chimaxi83]

Doesn't Carfax only report reported events? If I do my own service, or take it to a ma and pa shop, none of that would be recorded. Unreported accidents like some people choose to do with minor bumper tap type accidents would also not be on a report.

 

[lavaheadache]

There is nothing wrong with using Carfax as a the first step in looking at cars. It will tell you if there are obvious things with any given car. I use it to get me to look at cars after that you have to use a keen eye and scrutiny.

I wish it were kosher to be able to hand wash a car before buying it. Hand washing a car will force you to see the car in all angles and get you to look at all areas of the car. My first washing after buying a car is always the scariest...... You never know what you might discover.

 

[Greenman]

Carfax only reports what is reported to carfax. I would assume that most information doesn't show up.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Doesn't Carfax only report reported events? If I do my own service, or take it to a ma and pa shop, none of that would be recorded. Unreported accidents like some people choose to do with minor bumper tap type accidents would also not be on a report.

correct, and that's implyed, but I want to know why it doesn't report ANYTHING before 55k~ miles or 2012.

this is the first note:

03/12/2012 58,250 South Carolina
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Charleston, SC
Title #770650245419280 Vehicle purchase reported
Registration issued or renewed

 

[Jimzz]

Verify the VIN number. Some slimy dealers will list a car and adjust the VIN by 1 number and the only information is what they start and going forward. Good way to make a dirty car look clean on carfax.

Found a dealer doing that on a Genesis I was looking at. I called the out on it and after the initial deny they stopped replaying. I reported it to Carfax as they are starting to learn of this scam.


Look at the 17k Genesis carfax here...
http://www.liainfiniti.com/used-inv...ius=false&showSubmit=true&showSelections=true

Notice how the only thing listed is what the dealer selling it reported. Now compare its VIN to the other 2009 they have. Notice how the 4 should be a U in the first 2009 car, that's the difference. The correct VIN has 30 records.

 

[phucheneh]

The earlier bits of the VIN should be specific to the car, so a random change should be noticeable. I.e. if a Q denotes a V6 and a W is a V8, be wary of a car with a '7' there.

If they were clever enough to swap to a known 'good' letter/number, it gets harder. The latter part of the VIN is a chassis number and should be unique to the car. That's why dealer parts departments normally just ask for the last eight of the VIN. What sucks is that I don't think CarFax will care about duplicate chassis numbers....but it shouldn't happen.

Obviously, they can just 'accidentally' give you the VIN of an existing clean car...but how would they go about making new records for a VIN that previously had no history? Is CarFax actually so shitty as to allow that to happen?

 

[Jimzz]

The earlier bits of the VIN should be specific to the car, so a random change should be noticeable. I.e. if a Q denotes a V6 and a W is a V8, be wary of a car with a '7' there.

If they were clever enough to swap to a known 'good' letter/number, it gets harder. The latter part of the VIN is a chassis number and should be unique to the car. That's why dealer parts departments normally just ask for the last eight of the VIN. What sucks is that I don't think CarFax will care about duplicate chassis numbers....but it shouldn't happen.

Obviously, they can just 'accidentally' give you the VIN of an existing clean car...but how would they go about making new records for a VIN that previously had no history? Is CarFax actually so shitty as to allow that to happen?

Yep a dealer that paid for the Carfax account can enter a VIN and all the cars information. Look at the one I linked to above. The ONLY thing listed for that car is what the dealer put in mileage, year, color, etc...
Hyundai reports to carfax how much the car cost new. Notice in this case there is nothing reported when the car was new like others.

Its a new scam that most will not catch till after you pay and they then can chalk it up to a mistype and you are stuck with a car that has a dirty report but you bought it based on the clean one.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Verify the VIN number. Some slimy dealers will list a car and adjust the VIN by 1 number and the only information is what they start and going forward. Good way to make a dirty car look clean on carfax.

Found a dealer doing that on a Genesis I was looking at. I called the out on it and after the initial deny they stopped replaying. I reported it to Carfax as they are starting to learn of this scam.


Look at the 17k Genesis carfax here...
http://www.liainfiniti.com/used-inv...ius=false&showSubmit=true&showSelections=true

Notice how the only thing listed is what the dealer selling it reported. Now compare its VIN to the other 2009 they have. Notice how the 4 should be a U in the first 2009 car, that's the difference. The correct VIN has 30 records.

That's exactly what it looks like is going on...I asked them about that record history and they were like i've never seen that...

This is the car:

http://stokeshondanorth.com/usedcars/2009_BMW_3_Series_North_Charleston_WBAPL33539A515335.aspx

I ran a VIN check, and a few features don't add up ... like color of the seats (vin check says brown), and heated steering wheel (not seeing heated steering wheel in pictures)....

 

[phucheneh]

Look at the build sticker on the door and the VIN placard on the dash. Assuming both match and don't look altered (beware missing build stickers in doors), and they match the dealer's VIN, I'd say this might be more of a Carfax issue.

But the simple fact that we're discussing this is prolly a good sign that the place is not someone you want to deal with. Personally, I don't think I've ever seen a Carfax that didn't at least list the initial vehicle registration from when the first owner bought it.

The thing about dealer's starting a new history is pretty baffling. Didn't know they could do that. Are ALL new vehicle sales not accessible by Carfax? I know accidents won't be, but I guess I thought they automatically put every newly registered vehicle into their system. If not, why does the registration renewal (or a transfer) show up some years but not others? Even when the car has been in the same state the whole time?

Inconsistency is not a great thing when...well, your business is BASED on consistent information.

 

[ViviTheMage]

That's why I was wondering dafuq's going on...

I was going to fly out there, so i'll have to ask for photo's of the door placard + metal in the window tomorrow. I really hope its just a typo or something .. otherwise wtf, why would they even try to pull this. It's not like its a non branded car dealer (those off county highways), its a honda dealer :s.

 

[phucheneh]

If you're flying out for it, I would strongly recommend getting the lot to send the car out for an inspection. Even if you can't find any particular recommendations for a shop...they've got no horse in the race (just don't let the dealer pick. I might go as far as to send it to a competing dealer's shop ). No reason to lie; just an easy $50-100 to be made. That may seem pricey, but a 'one hour used car inspection' or similar is the way to go; don't cheap out and get some Firestone $19.99 deal.

When somebody pays me $70 for a UCI, I scrutinize the shit out of it.

 

[ViviTheMage]

My last car I paid about $150 for a PPI before I flew out, so I am down for one, I just want to make sure the friggin VIN is accurate now. If it's not accurate and the pictures show that, I am going to flip!

UCI? Ugly Car Inspection? haha ....

 

[iamwiz82]

http://www.bmwarchive.org/vin/bmw-vin-decoder.html

Looks ok by the original build. I cannot see the heated steering wheel, but there is no good photo of the right side of the steering column. Everything looks stock.

 

[ViviTheMage]

using the vin decoder though, the seats are wrong, and on the decoder it says:

S248A Lenkradheizung Steering wheel heater

looking at the left of the column, I see no heated steering wheel button like there should be.

 

[QuietDad]

Go to any BMW dealership service department and have them look it up. Most BMWs are maintained at BMW dealers because aftermarket parts just aren't there and BMW will not sell you certain things unless they do the replacing. Sound'\s like the first owner bought it a a BMW dealer new and did all the maintenance there and traded it in at 58k to a non BMW dealership or private owner.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Go to any BMW dealership service department and have them look it up. Most BMWs are maintained at BMW dealers because aftermarket parts just aren't there and BMW will not sell you certain things unless they do the replacing. Sound'\s like the first owner bought it a a BMW dealer new and did all the maintenance there and traded it in at 58k to a non BMW dealership or private owner.

Still the carfax would show an origination mileage with the state....

 

[iamwiz82]

using the vin decoder though, the seats are wrong, and on the decoder it says:

S248A Lenkradheizung Steering wheel heater

looking at the left of the column, I see no heated steering wheel button like there should be.

The heated steering wheel button is on the right side of the column on 2010s, so I suspect it'd be the same in 2009.

Here is an E92 example, it's the button on the column

 

[ViviTheMage]

I saw somewhere on the left for 2009 ... but I could be mistaken!

I am going to make sure this shit's kosher, I am all worried now, haha. So I think ya'll for the heads up on the possible scam!

 

[Meghan54]

Darn, y'all are good. The change of the VIN by one digit/letter is about all it'd take to produce a false Carfax report. And dealers with Carfax accounts do have the power to add/create an account, unlike us, the consumers. Sure, we can add anything to a Carfax report, but it won't show up.

Good catch, guys. And I think you're right, Vivi....the legit Carfax should at least show the vehicle's original sale/registration and titling by the original owner.

Be wary of that car.

 

[Jimzz]

I saw somewhere on the left for 2009 ... but I could be mistaken!

I am going to make sure this shit's kosher, I am all worried now, haha. So I think ya'll for the heads up on the possible scam!

Send the VIN number and ask for Carfax to look into it here...

http://support.carfax.com/c_contactus

I've done it a couple times and they were actually pretty quick and honest about what they find.

 

[iamwiz82]

I saw somewhere on the left for 2009 ... but I could be mistaken!

I am going to make sure this shit's kosher, I am all worried now, haha. So I think ya'll for the heads up on the possible scam!

It's dependent on the model but LHD E9x had it on the right side. RHD e9x had it on the left side, The X models are all on the left, I think. It's not consistent across models.