Career questions for others in IT

[Juddog]

Situation I'm in: Been doing IT work for 10 years. Money is ok (enough for a decent apt. but not enough to afford a house) to scrape by but not great. I see programmers fresh out of school making the same amount as me. Given that I already have programming experience from doing mainframe work I know it would be super easy to pickup some other languages. So here is my conundrum.

Do I:
* Go back to school for Bachelors / masters degree. Wind up in heavy debt at the end, while working part time to help pay it off. Current job position wouldn't allow me to have the hours to do this, so I would probably have to take a pay cut, although it might be feasible if I stretched it out by going to night courses part time. Downside is that my current associates won't carry over except for electives, so I'll basically have to do about 3 years of school full-time, or 6 years part-time, to get a bachelors.

To me it doesn't seem worth it versus having my associates degree but at least then I could get back into programming (I'm thinking C++, Java, development type work). Other major downside to this path is that I just don't have the startup money right now to even enroll, and after working so long on trimming down my debt I am hesitant to have to owe student loans.

* Go for certs and move on to another job once I nail down a few. Right now I have the basics (A+ and Net+, which were ridiculously easy) but I could do something like set a path for MCSE / MCSA, or alternately go for Cisco certs and head towards a CCNA, etc.. Alternate path is to go into security, but most security positions I see require a bachelors / masters so that most likely is out. I've studied enough to probably pass a security+ to pad my resume though.

Background: Worked as a mainframe programmer for 5 years, got laid off, couldn't pick up another job in my field, so started off doing IT work again for much lower pay, slowly worked up but am not infrastructure and probably won't ever have that chance if I don't increase my skillset. I've done work with Unix before, but I'm also decent with Microsoft products, so I could lean either way. The OS's that I've used are: OS/390, some Unix, some Linux, Windows.

Hoping to hear from some other IT folks as to which way you went and what you thought of it and where you branched off to / from, since I know this forum is frequented with other people who have gone through the same thing. I mostly feel like I've become trapped in my current field unless I break out into something else.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What about going to school part time and working full time? Does your company have tuition reimbursement?

 

[vi edit]

If you've been working IT for 10 years and can't afford a house then you either need to hop jobs a little more often to bump your salary (only real way you get that to happen) or move to place with a lower cost of living where you can afford a house.

A degree or higher education probably isn't the answer other than taking on even more debt at this point.

 

[Juddog]

What about going to school part time and working full time? Does your company have tuition reimbursement?

I could probably get some tuition reimbursement, to a limited degree, assuming I continued to work full time while taking night courses. The downside is that my position requires oddball hours at times, so there is a heavy chance that I would miss some of my courses and take a hit on my grades.

 

[Juddog]

If you've been working IT for 10 years and can't afford a house then you either need to hop jobs a little more often to bump your salary (only real way you get that to happen) or move to place with a lower cost of living where you can afford a house.

A degree or higher education probably isn't the answer other than taking on even more debt at this point.

So in this case would you say it's safer to pursue more immediate certs, such as the CCNA or MCSE? It would seem easier to get one of those than go back to school for 6 years while working full time. I know they are hard certs but I doubt they would take as long as a full bachelors.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You definitely want to get a degree at some point, or else, you'll hit a ceiling unless you're very lucky or have extremely deep technical skills in a particular area.

I agree with what vi says as well. One thing to realize, however, is that a cert isn't going to get you a better job by itself. Experience is what counts. So the goal here would be to get the certificates and learn the material, but you will likely still need to jump to a new company to make more money and have an opportunity to move into a higher position.

I have the opposite problem -- I'd like to leave IT, but my salary and benefits are at a point that it will be tough to start in another field.

P.S. MCSE was super easy. Not sure how it is now. When I did it, I took 7 tests in 8 weeks.

 

[chusteczka]

Pursue either certifications or a degree. The choice is up to you. It depends on what options are available to you.

 

[vi edit]

No, I'm saying that with 10 years of experience a degree or certs shouldn't be a limiting factor. Have you tried applying to other positions?

 

[spidey07]

You need to specialize and become an expert in that field. Just general IT stuff isn't going to go very far. The certs could be good because hopefully you'll learn a lot along the way. But you need to pick an area and get good in it. VMware is really hot right now and not difficult.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

A few hot areas in IT, OP:

Virtualization -- server, desktop, and application virtualization are big
Sharepoint
VOIP
SANs
Disaster Recovery

DBA is also a stable option with lots of jobs available.

 

[yllus]

With ten years of career experience, the benefit a degree would bring you is that it would demonstrate that you're somewhat well-roundedness as far as education goes. (Mostly it proves that you're more than likely literate and thus could handle managerial roles where you do more communicating than development.)

As a developer you have unique choices available to you when it comes to job retraining. In your situation, I would self-learn: Dredge up some of those ideas in your head about applications or websites you'd like to use yourself and make them a reality using whatever language is appropriate.

If you want to do this and maybe add a bit of group activity to it, gather a bunch of friends you think are pretty smart at your place some evening and pitch a startup to them. You actually don't need a specific idea to get going - just hear from everyone what skills they could bring to the table and see if you can build a consensus about doing something interesting.

This way you get the best of all worlds: You learn something new at a rapid pace; you work towards creating something that can potentially make you cash; and you get to know the world of startups a little bit in case you ever want to proceed further down that path.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Guys, a degree is more and more vital. The last two companies I've worked for wouldn't hire you if you didn't have a 4 year degree. I didn't necessarily agree with the policy, but this requirement is becoming more and more prevalent.

 

[steelodon]

Do you think that database administration is still a hot area in IT? Thanks.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Do you think that database administration is still a hot area in IT? Thanks.

I would not say hot, but I would say it is stable, pays well, and job postings seem to be fairly plentiful.

 

[xSauronx]

I could probably get some tuition reimbursement, to a limited degree, assuming I continued to work full time while taking night courses. The downside is that my position requires oddball hours at times, so there is a heavy chance that I would miss some of my courses and take a hit on my grades.

online classes: lots of unis and CCs offer them now. i can take all of my majors BS coursework at ecu online if I want to, or on campus, or mix it however is convenient for me.

worth looking into.

 

[vi edit]

You need to specialize and become an expert in that field. Just general IT stuff isn't going to go very far. The certs could be good because hopefully you'll learn a lot along the way. But you need to pick an area and get good in it. VMware is really hot right now and not difficult.

That's sort of where I was trying to lead to. Just saying "10 years IT experience" isn't going to cut it. And putting a degree behind it won't fix it either. You've got to get some sort of specialization to make yourself more marketable. A cert is a start, but it's going to be readily apparrent in the interview if you really know what you are doing.

 

[Numenorean]

If you have been doing IT for 10 years and can't afford a house, you're doing something horribly wrong.

 

[Juddog]

No, I'm saying that with 10 years of experience a degree or certs shouldn't be a limiting factor. Have you tried applying to other positions?

Well I am making decent money for what I do - basically I have hit the ceiling of pay for this area. I can't afford a house yet since my wife hasn't settled down in her career path yet - she had a long period of unemployment, where paying for the both of us put me through some hard times, including working two jobs at one point. I also helped her through college in order so that she could get her bachelors. I could move to another area where there are better careers, but that is simply not an option for me right now due to family constraints.

Had I not helped my wife through school, and didn't have to essentially carry the both of us in terms of food, cars, rent, etc. then I could have easily had enough to buy a house by now.

At this point, given my background, I basically can't make any more money doing what I do, unless I get some certs, or a degree. So I need to pick a path that will get me further along, or I'll be stuck doing what I'm doing indefinitely.

 

[Juddog]

online classes: lots of unis and CCs offer them now. i can take all of my majors BS coursework at ecu online if I want to, or on campus, or mix it however is convenient for me.

worth looking into.

Hmm thanks for the heads up, I guess I didn't realize that this was a viable option nowadays. If it's as easy as doing online coursework, then that's something I could definitely do.

 

[Juddog]

Guys, a degree is more and more vital. The last two companies I've worked for wouldn't hire you if you didn't have a 4 year degree. I didn't necessarily agree with the policy, but this requirement is becoming more and more prevalent.

This sadly is what held me back from continuing on in the mainframe field. I was passed up by people that were less good at what they did than I was, but the mere fact that they had a bachelors whereas I only had an associates gave them the clear advantage.

I have also applied to a few jobs where the only thing that held me back was not having a bachelors.

Thanks for the heads up everyone, I now have a path to lean towards. If the online thing is as available as it sounds, then it's definitely something I will pursue. Back 15 years ago when I was pursuing my associates, there wasn't an option for online courses, so I guess that's why I was in the dark that normal community colleges and such do that. I would definitely find this a lot easier than driving to campus while working full time.

 

[Juddog]

If you have been doing IT for 10 years and can't afford a house, you're doing something horribly wrong.

As mentioned above, I put my wife through school and paid for the both of us in the process; I have no shame in doing so.

 

[Numenorean]

As mentioned above, I put my wife through school and paid for the both of us in the process; I have no shame in doing so.

What does that have to do with anything? Unless you're still paying a bunch of money on loans for that process.

 

[blackdogdeek]

here is what i envision is best for you:

try to get a mainframe software dev job at a startup with a tuition reimbursement program

it may not happen but i think startups are more likely to hire you if you are cheap, and since you only have your associate's you would expect less compensation than someone with a bachelor's. then you can gain experience in a more lucrative field and also get your bachelor's in the process and hopefully on your own time.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What does that have to do with anything? Unless you're still paying a bunch of money on loans for that process.

What business is it of yours? The OP asked for advice, not criticism of his finances.

 

[Brovane]

I will add my two cents.

I have been in IT for over 10+ years. Worked my way up from Desktop to Senior Administrator over that time with the salary to go along with it.

It looks like in your position you need to do something that you can work on at home in odd hours.

VMware is hot right now. You can buy VMware Workstation and with a good enough computer seutp a complete VMware ESX Environment at home. Then if you wanted you could get your VCP (VMware Certified Professional) However you will need to take a official VMware course to take the test. This tends to cut out some of the chaff so it can be a good degree to pursue if you can go that direction.

Storage is also good however it is hard to gain experience without actually having a SAN to play with, which usually are only in enterprise environments.

Cisco is always a good one. You can setup virtual routers etc which can save you on cost of having to buy equipment. One Cisco field that is very hot is Cisco VOIP. However you would need to buy Cisco equipment to setup a Cisco VOIP system at your house.

I also pursued a degree, however the company where I worked paid me to finish the degree. If your company has tuition reimbursment I would talk to your boss about your ambition to finish your degree. If the company is giving your tuition reimbursment and your are having difficulty in your classes because your schedule is being jerked around this will probably not be looked on favorably. The problem I have with online schools is a lot of them are looked down on like Univ of Phoenix and they can tend to get pricey. What use is it to get a degree that a hiring manager will thumb his nose at? I completed my degree at a brick and mortar place and it was hard. However my boss worked with me even when I was on-call and I had class.

Is there room to grow at your current company? Will it be that you need to jump ship in order to move up?

Good Luck.