i'm getting some really mixed messages here. ccna is not worth much now, ok but what about ccnp and ccie. i'm reading about mad salaries that are possible for network engineers. is that still true? how do you get there. university degree? cisco and *nix certs?
career in networking/it
- Thread starter semo
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I dont know how old you are, but a university degree in IT managment, with as much cisco certs is optimal. Cisco is really the only certs that have any wait anymore and the higher up on the pyramid, the more cash you will get.... This of course, is if you think its all about the money
so are you guaranteed higher pay if you have higher level cisco certificates or is it just luck and links. i'm not the kind of guy that expects to get a qualification simply because i've paid for it. i get computers, logic and it in general. i've got interests in several electronic/computer related areas, including networking, so in that sense, yes, it is all about the money for me.
4 year degree or master plus experience goes a long way.
ccie is still a great cert and hard to get for sure, but they don't demand that salaries they used to (late 90s/early 2000/2001) there are so many of them now.
ccie is still a great cert and hard to get for sure, but they don't demand that salaries they used to (late 90s/early 2000/2001) there are so many of them now.
exactly my thoughts. i missed that train (and some others) because i'm too young (yet old enough not to witness all the space age stuff that we're reading about now :frown: ).
i'm being offered a masters course in ee and cs in a really good uni but i'm hesitant of going for it. i guess i just have to bite the bullet and do it. (schooling depresses me)
There is money to be made with the CCIE. In late June, just before this thread started, I heard about an opening for a CCIE with a starting salary of over $300,000. The big catch was that it was in the middle east.
RedCOMET
Platinum Member
- Jul 8, 2002
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Originally posted by: AmphibSailor
There is money to be made with the CCIE. In late June, just before this thread started, I heard about an opening for a CCIE with a starting salary of over $300,000. The big catch was that it was in the middle east.
Just curious, was the gig for a whole year? I've heard of some people talk of jobs in the middle east for X months for a pretty good salary.
Originally posted by: RedCOMET
Originally posted by: AmphibSailor
There is money to be made with the CCIE. In late June, just before this thread started, I heard about an opening for a CCIE with a starting salary of over $300,000. The big catch was that it was in the middle east.
Just curious, was the gig for a whole year? I've heard of some people talk of jobs in the middle east for X months for a pretty good salary.
Most IT jobs in the middle east right now will fetch 100k or more in salary. That's the standard for the security concerns, etc.$300k is impressive, but it would depend on the length of time that is paid over under contract and where it's at. If it's in the Green Zone in downtown Baghdad and you're staying in a nearby hotel as a civilian, I'm not sure that salary would be enough for me considering all the car bombings, etc right now.
I don't make a "mad" salary, but I've been in I.T. for over 6 years now and there still seems to be a lot of opportunity for those with just a CCNA.
I've just begun my CCNP courses and hope to have that completed in a year or so (I'm in no rush). Once I finish I would expect to see a fair increase in my salary.
I'm really not sure how important the college degree really is, unless you are completely new to the field and have no past experience. I had to work my way from PC Tech -> NT Admin -> Unix Admin -> Network Analyst (cisco, nortel, etc.) but it was worth it considering I had no degree.
just my .02 cents.
I've just begun my CCNP courses and hope to have that completed in a year or so (I'm in no rush). Once I finish I would expect to see a fair increase in my salary.
I'm really not sure how important the college degree really is, unless you are completely new to the field and have no past experience. I had to work my way from PC Tech -> NT Admin -> Unix Admin -> Network Analyst (cisco, nortel, etc.) but it was worth it considering I had no degree.
just my .02 cents.
Same thing here, sometimes you have to just work your way up. Get your foot in the door at a good company and they will pay for you to get all the certs and education (aside from at least a BS). Not the case for everyone, but quite a few that I know.
6+ years in the field and I've yet to hit a "ceiling". I continue to progress year after year.
I work with plenty of highly paid network guys who have been working for a while with no degree and no ceiling.
I could see the degree being important when you want to move into management, or into extremely high end engineering.
Most of the time the "BS required..." is outweighed by the "...or equivalent experience".
You are not at the ceiling yet. Usually happens around early 30s with 10 years experience or so.
I also know a lot of network guys that say "man, worst mistake I ever made was not get a degree...now I'm stuck doing this the rest of my life making the same wage" Its still decent money, but can't get any more raises because they maxed out the position. To make any more they would have to be a manager.
But they don't have a degree...so can't be manager...stuck.
I totally see your point. I guess I'm still at an age (26) where I feel like I would never want to be a manager.
I always hoped that I could acheive a mastery of the field, get my CCIE, and remain a well-payed technician for the rest of my life.
im feeling the same way, hearing this and that about the field and how networking jobs are disappearing. ive been really thinking should i go into field as i had fun with it networking class in high school and passed with very solid A's, but my overall gpa is not good enough to goto most universities.
Another comment on the BS or equivalent experience, some companies will not even look at you without a degree. And coming right out of school (well pretty close at 24) most companies are hard pressed to consider whatever you have been doing as Good experience.
I have also heard from many of the guys (and a few gals) that really wish they would have either finished getting their degrees or had any schooling at all. Problem today is that a college degree is equivalent to a high school degree of as yearly as ten years ago. Many of the jobs I was applying for were looking for a master degree for entry level work. It is very hard to get by without getting the schooling...although, it can also be in all who you know.
amdskip
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2001
- 22,530
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Interesting thread here. I'm majoring in CS. Even though it really does not have much to do with IT (like people think it does), would a BS in CS be considered a degree for these type of jobs. I don't want to be a coder for life but I will take what I can get. I'm just considering everything possible.
I understand. But technitians are still technitians.
They are at the bottom of the barrel salary wise. Not to burst a bubble or anything, but the topic is about a career in networking.
On degrees: I know some very smart people who don't have degrees. And every time they change jobs, the hiring manager loves them, puts in the paperwork, and then some HR drone flips out. Bigger companies can't hire people without real four-year degrees above a certain salary without a lot of heartburn and/or paperwork and/or meetings. And you better believe that it makes life more difficult for the guy who knows his material cold, but doesn't have a piece of paper saying he wrote four years of checks and occasionally attended pass/fail courses about the aesthetics of music.
The good news: A four-year degree in underwater basketweaving will get you a lot of the way past silly HR types. A four-year degree in *anything*. Relevant to the subject would of course be preferable, and would likely actually teach you things you don't know. But if push comes to shove, get a four year degree in something, anything, just have it. Or you'll become less employable.
Graduate degrees are useful only in the field you really want to go into. Most CS/engineering graduate programs are a lot more serious than undergrad, you are expected to know things and do things and be somewhat smart and hard working. It's actually less work than undergrad, but focused. Or maybe it's more work but at least enjoyable. Unless you get a bad advisor, in which case grad school can be hell.
It's a good idea to step back and figure out what you really want out of your career, and out of your life. I know it sounds cheezy. But if you don't know what the goal is, then planning out steps to get there is a bit hard. For example, if your goal is to make "mad money," then you probably should be focusing more on the business and management aspects and less on technology and engineering. I know many CTOs who are dumber than a box of rocks, but make a lot more money than I do, and control budgets a whole lot bigger than I do. They followed the money. In contrast, if you want to play with technology and have freedom, you need education and a lot of skills - be the best engineer you can be to be able to get the position you want.
Unfortunately, a lot of big companies are very confused about how they value people, and their concept of "promotion" is more money = management. That is to say, if you are a good engineer and want to make more money, you have to stop being an engineer so much and start becoming a manager. It's an unfortunate plague of the business world. As a consequence, it would be in your best interests to keep an open mind about management and learn how to do it. If you want to move up, you're going to need to be capable of doing it. You can get dragged kicking and screaming into something you don't know how to do, and fail, or you can get stuck doing something you don't prefer but are capable of doing, and succeed.
The best of all worlds is to go into business for yourself, which gives you money and freedom, but means you really REALLY have to learn business skills and you have to be a serious risk taker. It is not as easy as many people on the 'net will tell you it is, especially getting started. But it can be more fun.
The good news: A four-year degree in underwater basketweaving will get you a lot of the way past silly HR types. A four-year degree in *anything*. Relevant to the subject would of course be preferable, and would likely actually teach you things you don't know. But if push comes to shove, get a four year degree in something, anything, just have it. Or you'll become less employable.
Graduate degrees are useful only in the field you really want to go into. Most CS/engineering graduate programs are a lot more serious than undergrad, you are expected to know things and do things and be somewhat smart and hard working. It's actually less work than undergrad, but focused. Or maybe it's more work but at least enjoyable. Unless you get a bad advisor, in which case grad school can be hell.
It's a good idea to step back and figure out what you really want out of your career, and out of your life. I know it sounds cheezy. But if you don't know what the goal is, then planning out steps to get there is a bit hard. For example, if your goal is to make "mad money," then you probably should be focusing more on the business and management aspects and less on technology and engineering. I know many CTOs who are dumber than a box of rocks, but make a lot more money than I do, and control budgets a whole lot bigger than I do. They followed the money. In contrast, if you want to play with technology and have freedom, you need education and a lot of skills - be the best engineer you can be to be able to get the position you want.
Unfortunately, a lot of big companies are very confused about how they value people, and their concept of "promotion" is more money = management. That is to say, if you are a good engineer and want to make more money, you have to stop being an engineer so much and start becoming a manager. It's an unfortunate plague of the business world. As a consequence, it would be in your best interests to keep an open mind about management and learn how to do it. If you want to move up, you're going to need to be capable of doing it. You can get dragged kicking and screaming into something you don't know how to do, and fail, or you can get stuck doing something you don't prefer but are capable of doing, and succeed.
The best of all worlds is to go into business for yourself, which gives you money and freedom, but means you really REALLY have to learn business skills and you have to be a serious risk taker. It is not as easy as many people on the 'net will tell you it is, especially getting started. But it can be more fun.
Very good points Cmetz.
If I had it to do over again my degree would be a BA.
People who know technology only go so far. Those that know business AND technology go very far.
If I had it to do over again my degree would be a BA.
People who know technology only go so far. Those that know business AND technology go very far.
One of my major concerns is the fact that I'm on call, for the most part, 24/7/365.
I could be in the middle of an exam, and if the %&$# is hitting the fan, my company will expect me to drop everything.
I could be in the middle of an exam, and if the %&$# is hitting the fan, my company will expect me to drop everything.
1st rule of career happiness:
I am no longer on call. I will carry a cell phone but don't expect me to answer it outside of normal working hours.
work/life balance man....balance.
2nd rule:
If the crap hits the fan don't be the only one who can take care or it...let the technitians handle it.
Can't believe I forgot to mention... people skills.
You can be the best engineer in the world, that only gets you so far. You need to learn to be good with people, and to be good at getting people to see things your way. Talk and dress professional - that does NOT mean wear Brooks Brothers suits and talk like you went through a British boarding school, but it does mean that emulationg your favorite poseur rap star is unlikely to help your career.
Also, carry yourself with confidence. Nobody is going to trust an important job to a meek person.
Diplomacy, getting bad or unwelcome messages across in a way that the message gets through but nobody's too upset. Try to present positive ways to move forward along with the bad news.
And understand enough business to be able to communicate engineering things in terms of business and money to executive types. It's one thing to say we're upgrading switches because our network is falling over and melting. It's another to say that doing so will prevent hundreds of employees from sitting idle waiting for the network, thus increasing everyone's productivity and morale, and will give us technological headroom to last enough for a four-year asset cycle. Technology in the IT side is a tool, and executives generally don't care about the tools helping the tools, they care about how the company is going to make more revenues or spend less expenses because of these tools.
You can be the best engineer in the world, that only gets you so far. You need to learn to be good with people, and to be good at getting people to see things your way. Talk and dress professional - that does NOT mean wear Brooks Brothers suits and talk like you went through a British boarding school, but it does mean that emulationg your favorite poseur rap star is unlikely to help your career.
Also, carry yourself with confidence. Nobody is going to trust an important job to a meek person.
Diplomacy, getting bad or unwelcome messages across in a way that the message gets through but nobody's too upset. Try to present positive ways to move forward along with the bad news.
And understand enough business to be able to communicate engineering things in terms of business and money to executive types. It's one thing to say we're upgrading switches because our network is falling over and melting. It's another to say that doing so will prevent hundreds of employees from sitting idle waiting for the network, thus increasing everyone's productivity and morale, and will give us technological headroom to last enough for a four-year asset cycle. Technology in the IT side is a tool, and executives generally don't care about the tools helping the tools, they care about how the company is going to make more revenues or spend less expenses because of these tools.
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