Carbs- Are they good for us, bad for us? What's the deal?

[Mai72]

I eat a diet full of supposedly good carbs. I eat 100% whole wheat pasta, sweet potatoes, and whole grain oatmeal. Love my oatmeal. I also put bananas in my green smoothie. I also do resistance weight training with HIIT cardio 2X a week. So, IMO I need carbs. Or, maybe I don't need them as much as I think? Presently, carbs good and bad have been getting a lot of negative press. Especially with keto and the carnivore diets.

Here is a guy who eats 4 pieces 100% whole grain wheat bread, and 4.5 pieces of white bread. He then checks his blood sugar and both rise dramatically. 176 for the whole wheat, 202 for the white.

Here is the bananas vs snickers bar test which was eye opening TBH. Both raised blood sugar dramatically. The banana has fiber though. Maybe that is its saving grace?

 

[balloonshark]

You want whole food carbs because the fiber slows down the absorption of sugar. Avoid refined carbs. Also, what people add to their carbs is bad like butter, sour cream, cheese, syrup, salt, etc. The longest living people in the world base their diets around whole food carbs. They must be doing something right.

If you buy things like whole wheat bread, cereal, pasta, etc. you want to check to see if it has a 5 to 1 or lower carb to fiber ratio.

Also, who sits down and eats only 4 pieces of bread at a time? Plus you are most likely adding veggies and/or greens to your smoothies which would add more fiber.

 

[Mai72]

You want whole food carbs because the fiber slows down the absorption of sugar. Avoid refined carbs. Also, what people add to their carbs is bad like butter, sour cream, cheese, syrup, salt, etc. The longest living people in the world base their diets around whole food carbs. They must be doing something right.

If you buy things like whole wheat bread, cereal, pasta, etc. you want to check to see if it has a 5 to 1 or lower carb to fiber ratio.

Also, who sits down and eats only 4 pieces of bread at a time? Plus you are most likely adding veggies and/or greens to your smoothies which would add more fiber.

Good points, and thanks for the info. I agree. 4 pieces of bread was a bit much, but I guess he did it to prove his point. Fiber is something that wasn't brought up though. I agree. Fiber slows down the absorbation of carbs, which slows down glucose. That was never brought up in the banana vs. candy comparison. Thanks.

I just compared my whole wheat rotini. 5 to 1 ratio. In my case, it's 40g carbs/6g fiber. It doesn't make the cut. It's 6.6, so I'll have to find another source of pasta.

 

[balloonshark]

Good points, and thanks for the info. I agree. 4 pieces of bread was a bit much, but I guess he did it to prove his point. Fiber is something that wasn't brought up though. I agree. Fiber slows down the absorbation of carbs, which slows down glucose. That was never brought up in the banana vs. candy comparison. Thanks.

I just compared my whole wheat rotini. 5 to 1 ratio. In my case, it's 40g carbs/6g fiber. It doesn't make the cut. It's 6.6, so I'll have to find another source of pasta.

It's just something to keep in mind when shopping. I just checked my 100% whole wheat bread and it was 16g of total carbs to 2g fiber which is terrible. I'm sure if I wanted something better it would cost twice as much. If I wasn't so lazy I would make my own bread.

 

[Mai72]

It's just something to keep in mind when shopping. I just checked my 100% whole wheat bread and it was 16g of total carbs to 2g fiber which is terrible. I'm sure if I wanted something better it would cost twice as much. If I wasn't so lazy I would make my own bread.

I've gotten away from bread. I don't really miss it. When I eat bread it's usually at italian restaurants. That's when they put the garlic, toasted bread on the table and I always end up eating a lot of it. Especially with butter. I haven't been to an italian restaurant in ages though. I can't believe that people eat that crap 3-4X a week. Baked zita, lasuagna, veal parm, with a ton of bread. That just makes me sick. My diet has gotten much better.

The thing that I worry about is type2. It seems to be affecting many Americans today. Some 84m Americans are prediabetic and don't even know it. That's a scary number, and I'm sure it's only going to get worse. With sitting on our butts all day, and our god awful diets. I'm sure in 10 years it will be over 100m Americans with type2.

 

[balloonshark]

I've gotten away from bread. I don't really miss it. When I eat bread it's usually at italian restaurants. That's when they put the garlic, toasted bread on the table and I always end up eating a lot of it. Especially with butter. I haven't been to an italian restaurant in ages though. I can't believe that people eat that crap 3-4X a week. Baked zita, lasuagna, veal parm, with a ton of bread. That just makes me sick. My diet has gotten much better.

I usually only eat one piece of bread with peanut butter a day with my breakfast. If I make pasta sometimes I'll fix garlic bread or garlic croutons. A loaf of bread will last me two weeks. I could probably skip the bread altogether but I kind of need the calories.

 

[whm1974]

Try whole grain rye bread. That does have a great more fiber then whole wheat breads do.

 

[Muse]

If I wasn't so lazy I would make my own bread.

I always make my own bread but I have no idea of the carbs/fiber factor involved. I suppose I could calculate it with some effort. I use a bread machine these days, which makes breadmaking pretty easy compared to what I did before, which was a bowl, kneading board, proofing in a warm oven, proofing in a pan, then cooking in my oven... so much more work! Now, the entire process of making a loaf is certainly under a 1/2 hour and that includes slicing and freezing/refrigerating the loaf separated into 3 parts. Of course, it takes longer than that but I can do other things while the bread machine does its thing.

Try whole grain rye bread. That does have a great more fiber then whole wheat breads do.

That's actually kind of what I always make. Not entirely whole grain, though:

Oil (extra virgin olive is what I always use): 0.64 oz
water 15.5oz (I heat it to luke warm in the microwave)
organic rye flour 5.35oz
organic whole wheat flour 6oz
ground flax seed 1.6oz (optional, or an extra 1.6oz whole wheat flour)
salt 0.24oz
sugar 0.64oz
non fat dry milk powder 0.71oz
caraway seeds 0.5oz
gluten powder 0.59oz
molasses 1.18 tablespoon (~0.6oz)
white bread flour 8.45oz
active dry yeast ~0.09oz (depending on its strength)

 

[Muse]

The thing that I worry about is type2. It seems to be affecting many Americans today. Some 84m Americans are prediabetic and don't even know it. That's a scary number, and I'm sure it's only going to get worse. With sitting on our butts all day, and our god awful diets. I'm sure in 10 years it will be over 100m Americans with type2.

My blood tests are pretty stellar. I don't think I am anywhere close to having to be concerned about type 2 diabetes based on their numbers. However, info I've encountered implicates refined carbs, sugar in particular, and being bad for me and I keep a close eye on how much I eat. I don't avoid it like poison, but I am careful to keep it within tight limits. For example, I'll eat a little sweetened chocolate. As you see in the recipe I posted above for my bread that there's some sugar in it, but that's because the yeast in bread needs some sugar to leaven the bread! I suppose I could just add more yeast instead, but that amount of sugar, well, I don't think it can be tasted... the yeast has probably converted most of it into CO2.

 

[ch33zw1z]

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates/carbohydrates-and-blood-sugar/

I dont eat bread. I do a very strict diet to curb migraines, and a low glycemic load diet does very well. I strive for no added sugars, just natural sugars. My main source of traditional carbs is basmati brown rice. I've never checked my blood sugar, buty doctor says it's ok in blood worn. I eat a ton of vegetables and fruits (I dont avoid natural fruit based sugars), and I also had to curb my fiber intake as I was hitting about 175% of the daily recommended amount. I try to keep it between 50-60g per day. About 250 net carbs per day.

 

[balloonshark]

I always make my own bread but I have no idea of the carbs/fiber factor involved. I suppose I could calculate it with some effort. I use a bread machine these days, which makes breadmaking pretty easy compared to what I did before, which was a bowl, kneading board, proofing in a warm oven, proofing in a pan, then cooking in my oven... so much more work! Now, the entire process of making a loaf is certainly under a 1/2 hour and that includes slicing and freezing/refrigerating the loaf separated into 3 parts. Of course, it takes longer than that but I can do other things while the bread machine does its thing.

Thanks for sharing. The sad part is I have a brand new unopened bread maker. I just haven't looked into the costs and was worried about the noise. I've read the machine I bought can "walk" around on the counter. I also don't believe we have any bulk sources of ingredients locally.

I really need to look into this further. If I could find a super healthy recipe with minimal yet affordable ingredients I would be golden.

"slicing and freezing/refrigerating the loaf separated into 3 parts." Do you mean you slice up the entire loaf and freeze 1/3, refridgerate 1/3 and put 1/3 in a bag or container to eat immediately? Are you making 2lb loafs? How much bread do you eat a day? How thick are you slices and how long does one loaf last you?

 

[Muse]

Thanks for sharing. The sad part is I have a brand new unopened bread maker. I just haven't looked into the costs and was worried about the noise. I've read the machine I bought can "walk" around on the counter. I also don't believe we have any bulk sources of ingredients locally.

I really need to look into this further. If I could find a super healthy recipe with minimal yet affordable ingredients I would be golden.

"slicing and freezing/refrigerating the loaf separated into 3 parts." Do you mean you slice up the entire loaf and freeze 1/3, refridgerate 1/3 and put 1/3 in a bag or container to eat immediately? Are you making 2lb loafs? How much bread do you eat a day? How thick are you slices and how long does one loaf last you?

To answer your questions:

1. Slicing: Here's how I slice the loaf. I have a long bladed knife, very well sharpened. I let the loaf cool at least 3 hours before slicing, 4 hours prefered. When quite cool it's easier to slice cleanly. I make cross sectional slices (like a loaf is normally sliced) across the top, between 3/8" and 1/2" apart. Either would work and I can vary the width of the slices so I have my choice when picking out slices from the loaf. Those first slices don't go all the way down, they go maybe an inch down. Doing this I get anywhere from 14 to 17 slices, depending on the thickness, of course. After that initial slicing, I go all the way to the bottom on each slice, starting from one end, of course. Now, in the last year or so I've improved this technique by sneaking a look on one side and then the other to make sure the thickness of the slice stays uniform, in going to the bottom for each slice. The result is a very uniform slice in general. I used to get strange slices fairly often. Not now.

2. Storing: I separate the sliced loaf into 3 portions. I put in 3 separate plastic bags and freeze 2 of them and store the 3rd in the refrigerator. I have a toaster oven and a microwave and I can use either, or if making a sandwich to take with me, I don't bother heating the bread.

3. Weight. I could weigh, usually don't, but I'd guess my loaf weight these days is around 36 ounces.

4. I don't eat bread every day these days. I ate one slice yesterday, on Wednesdays I do my volunteer job and take a sandwich with me. If I ate more bread I wouldn't divide the loaf in 3rds. Maybe in 1/2 or even just refrigerate the whole loaf, I used to do that when I ate more bread. These days one loaf can last me up to a month, in fact. But if kept in the fridge for a month, some mold would likely start to form. I'd probably eat it anyway (never hurt me), but I prefer if it doesn't show signs of deterioration.

A kitchen scale is really a great thing for this, it is easier than going by volume measurements, is a lot more accurate and just a lot faster.

The walking bread machine, I'm wondering if you have a Breadman. I used to and it was famous for walking. It wasn't so bad. Its pan got pretty worn over the years and I found a Williams Sonoma bread making machine on the sidewalk a few doors down from my house, in beautiful condition. Many people buy (or are gifted) bread making machines and never get into using them and give them away or put them out on the sidewalk.

The noise isn't that bad, and it only makes noise while the paddle is spinning the loaf.

Another thing, a few seconds after the final kneading by the machine (when is 90 minutes from when I turn it on), I remove the pan from the machine and remove the paddle and then pat down the dough and reinsert the pan in the machine. Then the machine does the final rise and bakes the loaf. Removing the paddle before the final rise pevents a pretty big hole in the loaf when you remove the cooked bread from the pan, by virtue of the paddle having to be pulled out of the cooked loaf. I don't bother removing the pan from the machine for about 15 minutes after it's done. Thereby, the hole in the bottom from the spindle is cleaner/smaller than if I remove the loaf earlier. Then I put the loaf on it's side on top of a wire rack to cool 3+ hours before slicing.

 

[balloonshark]

To answer your questions:

1. Slicing: Here's how I slice the loaf. I have a long bladed knife, very well sharpened. I let the loaf cool at least 3 hours before slicing, 4 hours prefered. When quite cool it's easier to slice cleanly. I make cross sectional slices (like a loaf is normally sliced) across the top, between 3/8" and 1/2" apart. Either would work and I can vary the width of the slices so I have my choice when picking out slices from the loaf. Those first slices don't go all the way down, they go maybe an inch down. Doing this I get anywhere from 14 to 17 slices, depending on the thickness, of course. After that initial slicing, I go all the way to the bottom on each slice, starting from one end, of course. Now, in the last year or so I've improved this technique by sneaking a look on one side and then the other to make sure the thickness of the slice stays uniform, in going to the bottom for each slice. The result is a very uniform slice in general. I used to get strange slices fairly often. Not now.

2. Storing: I separate the sliced loaf into 3 portions. I put in 3 separate plastic bags and freeze 2 of them and store the 3rd in the refrigerator. I have a toaster oven and a microwave and I can use either, or if making a sandwich to take with me, I don't bother heating the bread.

3. Weight. I could weigh, usually don't, but I'd guess my loaf weight these days is around 36 ounces.

4. I don't eat bread every day these days. I ate one slice yesterday, on Wednesdays I do my volunteer job and take a sandwich with me. If I ate more bread I wouldn't divide the loaf in 3rds. Maybe in 1/2 or even just refrigerate the whole loaf, I used to do that when I ate more bread. These days one loaf can last me up to a month, in fact. But if kept in the fridge for a month, some mold would likely start to form. I'd probably eat it anyway (never hurt me), but I prefer if it doesn't show signs of deterioration.

A kitchen scale is really a great thing for this, it is easier than going by volume measurements, is a lot more accurate and just a lot faster.

The walking bread machine, I'm wondering if you have a Breadman. I used to and it was famous for walking. It wasn't so bad. Its pan got pretty worn over the years and I found a Williams Sonoma bread making machine on the sidewalk a few doors down from my house, in beautiful condition. Many people buy (or are gifted) bread making machines and never get into using them and give them away or put them out on the sidewalk.

The noise isn't that bad, and it only makes noise while the paddle is spinning the loaf.

Another thing, a few seconds after the final kneading by the machine (when is 90 minutes from when I turn it on), I remove the pan from the machine and remove the paddle and then pat down the dough and reinsert the pan in the machine. Then the machine does the final rise and bakes the loaf. Removing the paddle before the final rise pevents a pretty big hole in the loaf when you remove the cooked bread from the pan, by virtue of the paddle having to be pulled out of the cooked loaf. I don't bother removing the pan from the machine for about 15 minutes after it's done. Thereby, the hole in the bottom from the spindle is cleaner/smaller than if I remove the loaf earlier. Then I put the loaf on it's side on top of a wire rack to cool 3+ hours before slicing.

Thanks for your reply Muse. You have provided a ton of useful information. Your post has motivated to watch videos and seek out recipes this week. I also now I understand why you divide up the loaf. Also, your tip about removing the blade after the final kneading will come in handy.

I've never heard of keeping a loaf of bread in the refrigerator but I have heard of freezing bread. I will consider it depending on how long a loaf will last but I figure a homemade loaf will go bad much quicker than store bought.

I have the Oster Expressbake 2lb. bread maker. I also have a kitchen scale that I mostly use for weighing coffee beans.

 

[Muse]

You m

Thanks for your reply Muse. You have provided a ton of useful information. Your post has motivated to watch videos and seek out recipes this week. I also now I understand why you divide up the loaf. Also, your tip about removing the blade after the final kneading will come in handy.

I've never heard of keeping a loaf of bread in the refrigerator but I have heard of freezing bread. I will consider it depending on how long a loaf will last but I figure a homemade loaf will go bad much quicker than store bought.

I have the Oster Expressbake 2lb. bread maker. I also have a kitchen scale that I mostly use for weighing coffee beans.

It's a habit, keeping bread in the refrigerator. I think it keeps longer there, everything seems to. You may have the materials that came with the Oster breadmaker, and they probably include a bunch of recipes. There are many books out there with recipes and tips especially for bread making machines. I have one, but nowadays I've been sticking with the recipe I posted.

I do buy 25lb bags of white flour at Costco, but the whole wheat I use comes in 5lb bags I get at Whole Foods. The rye flour I get at a local market that has a bulk foods sections. Don't be intimidated, you can get ingredients somewhere! Good luck and I hope you enjoy your baking and the wonderful smell of fresh baking bread!

 

[whm1974]

Why not just use both whole grain rye and wheat flours? Or you could use whole grain White wheat flour.

 

[snoopy7548]

Good points, and thanks for the info. I agree. 4 pieces of bread was a bit much, but I guess he did it to prove his point. Fiber is something that wasn't brought up though. I agree. Fiber slows down the absorbation of carbs, which slows down glucose. That was never brought up in the banana vs. candy comparison. Thanks.

I just compared my whole wheat rotini. 5 to 1 ratio. In my case, it's 40g carbs/6g fiber. It doesn't make the cut. It's 6.6, so I'll have to find another source of pasta.

I just checked the seeded potato hamburger buns I typically buy and they have a 30:1 ratio.



I went grocery shopping yesterday and finding something with an acceptable ratio (in the bread aisle) is nearly impossible.

 

[balloonshark]

I just checked the seeded potato hamburger buns I typically buy and they have a 30:1 ratio.

View attachment 9457

I went grocery shopping yesterday and finding something with an acceptable ratio (in the bread aisle) is nearly impossible.

For all I know you might need to buy those pricey artisan loaves with ancient grains. Or it may just require buying whole grain bread with only a few ingredients. To be honest I've never looked around a store's deli to see if they have any breads available. I always assumed they would cost too much. I'm actually lucky to find my regular bread on the shelf.

 

[mindless1]

I don't understand the rehash of existing info. It's been well known for decades that whole grains with more fiber are better, simple carbs should be limited, and empty calories should be limited even more.

It's also well known that the more active you are, the more blood sugar you burn, the more carbs you need. It's also well known that you don't want so many carbs, digested so far that they turn to fat.

It's also well known that having your recommended 30% fat in your diet, be in your carbs as much as reasonably possible so they digest slower. You do not need to adhere to that crazy fiber ratio! You are better off just not eating so many carbs. Fiber does not slow down carb digestion that much unless you have an extreme amount and if you have that extreme amount, you're consuming excessive fiber by the time you include fruits and vegetables. DO get more carbs from vegetables rather than fixating on high fiber grains, unless you're just looking for a healthier way to gain non-muscle weight, which few try to do unless sumo wrestling.

Just like carbs, you can over-do fiber. You are not a cow, have only one stomach and excessive fiber will retain nutrients lost from your

It's also well known that everything should be in moderation. If you eat one thing excessively, you have to either eat less of something else or you go over your caloric budget.

Now what was the premise again? That someone eats a boatload of carbs and sees a spike? Why would you do that?

Even so, if you are healthy your body can deal with it. If you are not, consult a physician to see what's up. Merely seeing a blood sugar spike, is only a problem if YOUR body can't deal with it.

Some video that shows what a particular individual's body does in response to carbs, only tells you what that individual should be concerned about. Yes it is generally true that you shouldn't eat a boatload of carbs, but within reason, they are not something to focus on as good vs bad.

Carbs are a necessary part of a good diet, and some special recipe for eating them, is more trouble than it's worth if you just use some common sense and develop habits not to be a glutton about simple empty calorie carbs.

If you do that, you automatically have to choose from more complex, nutrient dense carbs.

Much can be said about healthy snacks. If you are on a blood sugar roller coaster, eat more often smaller snacks like a carrot stick and your neighbor, who is high protein. Protein is very important. I am amused that you read this far because again, this is all a rehash of existing info. lol don't eat your neighbor, prison food is bad.

 

[Muse]

Why not just use both whole grain rye and wheat flours? Or you could use whole grain White wheat flour.

I am using whole grain rye and wheat, but I'm putting 8.5 ounces of white flour in there too. I think that makes the loaf a little less heavy and probably contributes to slicing and handling well without breaking. Also, rising well.

I don't remember seeing "whole grain white wheat flour."

 

[whm1974]

I don't remember seeing "whole grain white wheat flour."

Well there is such a thing and the first time I seen a loaf whole wheat white bread, I thought it was bleached bread.

And the white wheat does exist.

 

[balloonshark]

I've used to buy store bought white wheat bread.

• The Difference Between Whole-Wheat and White Whole-Wheat Flour
  While both flours are 100 percent whole wheat, the difference is in the variety of whole wheat.
  
  • Whole-wheat flour is made from hard red spring or winter wheat, which has a nutty, hearty taste.
  • White whole-wheat flour is made from hard white spring or winter wheat, which has the exact same nutritional value of whole-wheat flour, but because of the variety used, has a milder flavor and paler color.
  
  
• Whole-Wheat Flour
  Whole wheat flour is made from hard red spring or winter wheat. All three layers of the wheat berries are ground — the bran, germ, and endosperm — to result in a bold, wholesome flour. If you were to take these wheat varieties, strip them of their nutty-tasting, fiber-rich bran and germ, and grind just the endosperm, you’d get all-purpose flour.
  
  
  White Whole-Wheat Flour
  White whole-wheat flour is simply made with a different variety of wheat. It’s made with hard white spring or winter wheat — the bran, germ, and endosperm are all ground to result in another 100 percent whole-wheat flour. Yet because it’s made with hard white wheat instead of hard red wheat, like whole-wheat flour, it has a paler color and its taste is milder. It’s still nuttier than all-purpose flour because it includes the fibrous bran and germ of the wheat, but it’s a more approachable whole-wheat flour, particularly for those who don’t enjoy the hearty taste of whole-wheat flour.
  
  It can be used interchangeably with whole-wheat flour in any recipe, or can be substituted for half of all-purpose flour called for in a recipe.

• 
  https://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the...hole-wheat-and-white-whole-wheat-flour-236647