car sales indicator suggests recession nearby

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: UptheMiddle

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

The crysis of american car-makers is largely due to products, really. Ask yourself why you need to wait 1 year to get a BMW in Manhattan while nobody is buying a cadillac in Frankfurt.

M6 convertibles don't exactly grow on trees, while an XLR-V would look better if it was wrapped around one.

First quote - Germans have pride in their country and heritage. Many US citizens do not and its become "hip" to hate everything US.

GM has to struggle with a very large number of retiree healthcare and pension costs. Something that the other mfg's don't. Just because a manufacturing plant is built in the US, don't be fooled into believing that the same number of jobs displaced are replaced. There's much more than just line workers involved (Various Engineering, Finance, Purchasing, Management, Supply Chain, etc).

Sorry, but advocating buying habits based on nationalism is kinda silly these days. People will just buy what they feel is better for them, and everything has a market. People from all over the world shop Armani, Gucci and Prada not because they respect the italian cultural heritage, they'll buy those clothes because they are better products. At the same time Italians will buy chinese textile products not because they hate their country, but because those products have a better price/quality ratio for many people.

Cars are very expensive, so people are even more conscious about what they are getting. American carmakers fail to compete with european producers in the products quality field, and fail to compete with asian producers on price/quality balance and assistance/reliability. They seem to be unable to choose which market they want to dominate and concentrate on that. And nowadays is very hard to compete in ALL the markets.

European carmakers struggle with much much higher healthcare, pension and workers benefits costs. If you make cars it's more than possible to cope with these, provided you actually sell those cars...

 

[Strk]

Ford has some of the top spots in European car sales, so I'm not exactly sure where they "fail to compete." Yes, American companies do have serious problems, especially in America where very large bulks of their lines are SUVs/trucks, but they also have a very serious issue that German companies, especially VW, are facing -- too many employees with too many benefits (VW actually loses more per car in the US than GM). And products quality field? Yes, American companies get beaten by Toyota and Honda, but you have quite a few companies filling up the bottom that aren't American. A lot of people simply have a grudge against American auto companies and, for some reason, the worst offenders seem to be Americans.

Hell, on Top Gear, Clarkson, who has nothing good to say about us over here, has given maybe one bad review of a Ford and most of his reasoning because it was useless for life in Britain (Ford F-150 Lightning).

 

[desy]

Here is the best article on quality and car buying psychology I've read in a while 4 pages but worth it

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: Strk
Ford has some of the top spots in European car sales, so I'm not exactly sure where they "fail to compete."

What "Ford of Europe" (Which is actually a different department of The Ford Company) sells in Europe are not the same vehicles that Ford of America sells in America.
The product lines are different, and the results are also different, yet Ford refuses to sell here what they have in Europe.

 

[Puffnstuff]

You know gm sells different vehicles in overseas markets as well. Look at their holden line for instance, those vehicles are sweet and would sell if they'd only bring them here to the states. The holden commodore is bad ass yet they won't bring it here. My last new gm vehicle was problematic at best and afterwards I swore that I'd never buy another gm product but the holdens are different. If you've never seen them you can look here.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: piasabird
The car market has priced itself beyond the budget of a lot of people.

Also the real estate market is the same way.

It is becoming increasingly harder to own a home and a new car.
It is really rediculous.

Meanwhile here come all the low-paid illegals Chinese and Indian workers to the rescue to keeping all the wages down.

It is a very odd world.

I saw this coming since 2001 and started echoing this here and labeled as a loon.

I may be in fact a loon but exactly what I said in 2001 is now what people are waking up to realize, the U.S. has dropped like a rock.

No longer the land of the free.

No longer the land of opportunity (except for the very rich)

No longer a Democracy or a Republic (except for the very rich)

It is only odd to the ordinary American that is waking up to this, the rich fully expected this as they have put this in place.

I still see a full Revolution as the only chance for ordinary Americans to get America back.

The rich that control it know that so they are working everyday to make sure the citizenry cannot arm itself or get into power via voting.

America is closer to being dead than most realize but some are slowly waking up.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: piasabird
The car market has priced itself beyond the budget of a lot of people.

Also the real estate market is the same way.

It is becoming increasingly harder to own a home and a new car.
It is really rediculous.

Meanwhile here come all the low-paid illegals Chinese and Indian workers to the rescue to keeping all the wages down.

It is a very odd world.

I saw this coming since 2001 and started echoing this here and labeled as a loon.

I may be in fact a loon but exactly what I said in 2001 is now what people are waking up to realize, the U.S. has dropped like a rock.

No longer the land of the free.

No longer the land of opportunity (except for the very rich)

No longer a Democracy or a Republic (except for the very rich)

It is only odd to the ordinary American that is waking up to this, the rich fully expected this as they have put this in place.

I still see a full Revolution as the only chance for ordinary Americans to get America back.

The rich that control it know that so they are working everyday to make sure the citizenry cannot arm itself or get into power via voting.

America is closer to being dead than most realize but some are slowly waking up.

Thanks for the insight Chicken Little. I am not very rich and am doing just fine. If people's budgeting skills were up to par with their complaining skills the country would be better off. The feeling of entitlement to luxury items that they can't afford is what is killing the average American.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: piasabird
The car market has priced itself beyond the budget of a lot of people.

Also the real estate market is the same way.

It is becoming increasingly harder to own a home and a new car.
It is really rediculous.

Meanwhile here come all the low-paid illegals Chinese and Indian workers to the rescue to keeping all the wages down.

It is a very odd world.

I saw this coming since 2001 and started echoing this here and labeled as a loon.

I may be in fact a loon but exactly what I said in 2001 is now what people are waking up to realize, the U.S. has dropped like a rock.

No longer the land of the free.

No longer the land of opportunity (except for the very rich)

No longer a Democracy or a Republic (except for the very rich)

It is only odd to the ordinary American that is waking up to this, the rich fully expected this as they have put this in place.

I still see a full Revolution as the only chance for ordinary Americans to get America back.

The rich that control it know that so they are working everyday to make sure the citizenry cannot arm itself or get into power via voting.

America is closer to being dead than most realize but some are slowly waking up.

Thanks for the insight Chicken Little. I am not very rich and am doing just fine. If people's budgeting skills were up to par with their complaining skills the country would be better off. The feeling of entitlement to luxury items that they can't afford is what is killing the average American.

Ah, your very welcome.

You claim to be not rich but you did not say you are a Washington Insider which I suspect.

Another Rove online shill.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: piasabird
The car market has priced itself beyond the budget of a lot of people.

Also the real estate market is the same way.

It is becoming increasingly harder to own a home and a new car.
It is really rediculous.

Meanwhile here come all the low-paid illegals Chinese and Indian workers to the rescue to keeping all the wages down.

It is a very odd world.

I saw this coming since 2001 and started echoing this here and labeled as a loon.

I may be in fact a loon but exactly what I said in 2001 is now what people are waking up to realize, the U.S. has dropped like a rock.

No longer the land of the free.

No longer the land of opportunity (except for the very rich)

No longer a Democracy or a Republic (except for the very rich)

It is only odd to the ordinary American that is waking up to this, the rich fully expected this as they have put this in place.

I still see a full Revolution as the only chance for ordinary Americans to get America back.

The rich that control it know that so they are working everyday to make sure the citizenry cannot arm itself or get into power via voting.

America is closer to being dead than most realize but some are slowly waking up.

Thanks for the insight Chicken Little. I am not very rich and am doing just fine. If people's budgeting skills were up to par with their complaining skills the country would be better off. The feeling of entitlement to luxury items that they can't afford is what is killing the average American.

Ah, your very welcome.

You claim to be not rich but you did not say you are a Washington Insider which I suspect.

Another Rove online shill.

Take off the tin foil hat. I'm sorry that personal responsibility has become a foreign concept in the US. Not everyone can afford a BMW and, despite what you think, they are not entitled to it. Just accept the fact that there are different levels of wealth. And, for the record, I work in the IT dept for a wholesale dist. company, not in DC. :disgust: