Car Repair Rant

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
My '01 Infiniti QX4 failed it's MA Emissions test. Took it to an emissions specialist and two catalytic converters are bad. Cost to replace them is $1.8k, ugh! I called around and no one will use aftermarket cats ($250 compared to $625 a piece for factory) b/c the tolerances/sensitivity of them suck compared to the factory ones. And it's possible that aftermarket cats won't pass the emissions test.

My emissions guy suggested contacting the dealership to see if they'd help me out b/c I only have 83k miles on it and the federal long-term emissions warranty(which covers the cats) is 8 yrs/80,000 miles. Well, the dealership won't cover it though it's only 3k miles over warranty. They suggested that I contact Infiniti Consumer Affairs which I did and they won't help me out either. I told them that if the damn Service Engine light went on, I would have gotten it fixed before the warranty ended but they didn't care.

I hate forking out this kind of money and just needed to rant.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
60,198
15,133
136
That really does suck. You'd think they'd want you to buy another Infiniti as your next vehicle.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
That really does suck. You'd think they'd want you to buy another Infiniti as your next vehicle.

I agree. I told the dealer and consumer affairs that in the long run, they'll lose out on more money b/c I won't buy another Infiniti again and that I'll let people know what happened.
 

TimeKeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 1999
4,927
0
0
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
And it's possible that aftermarket cats won't pass the emissions test.

I highly doubt it. Most of aftermarket parts meet and exceed OE spec. And it is almost rare to have both Cat Convertor fail at the same time, not to mention your car is not that old.

Have your dealer run through the error code first, maybe, it is simple as your O2 sensor?

If both truely need replacement, call your local garage for pricing on installing your own cat convertor. ( shop your parts online such as
http://www.autopartswarehouse....1+1638+4294967266+5760
w/ free shipping over $50 )





 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,154
58
91
Well, in all honesty....how they hell long are they supposed to warranty the parts for? 80k, or 83k? How about 85? Can we get a 90k? When do they draw the line?

Seriously....if your car had 90k on it, would you still feel the same way? Either way, what's the difference? The manufacturers don't want to warranty the parts that long...the government makes them do it. So you can bet that none of them will be willing to help at all over 80k, and personally, I don't blame them.

Now, I understand your position....you're just over the warranty and they failed. But this is a long-term warranty...it has to end somewhere.

Regarding your problem....I'd let the dealer diagnose it. What the hell is an "emissions specialist", anyway? You can't be one...it's impossible. All the emissions system is, is the EFI system. Nobody can be an "expert" in all brands.
Your dealer will be far more qualified to diagnose this than any independent shop. As mentioned before, this could just be one of the sensors. Or, your guy could be right, in which case I would demand that someone install some aftermarket cats on my car. "Tolerances and sensitivity" my butt. If they go on there and work, and the check engine light isn't on, your car will pass.
 

tylerdustin2008

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2006
3,436
0
76
This is where knowing how to do it yourself comes in. I could have new ones on it less than an hour if it were my car.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
"Tolerances and sensitivity" my butt. If they go on there and work, and the check engine light isn't on, your car will pass.

Yeah, really. Do the OEM cats give the unburned hydrocarbons little hugs before sending them on their way to be processed?:laugh:
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Well, in all honesty....how they hell long are they supposed to warranty the parts for? 80k, or 83k? How about 85? Can we get a 90k? When do they draw the line?

Seriously....if your car had 90k on it, would you still feel the same way? Either way, what's the difference? The manufacturers don't want to warranty the parts that long...the government makes them do it. So you can bet that none of them will be willing to help at all over 80k, and personally, I don't blame them.

Now, I understand your position....you're just over the warranty and they failed. But this is a long-term warranty...it has to end somewhere.

Regarding your problem....I'd let the dealer diagnose it. What the hell is an "emissions specialist", anyway? You can't be one...it's impossible. All the emissions system is, is the EFI system. Nobody can be an "expert" in all brands.
Your dealer will be far more qualified to diagnose this than any independent shop. As mentioned before, this could just be one of the sensors. Or, your guy could be right, in which case I would demand that someone install some aftermarket cats on my car. "Tolerances and sensitivity" my butt. If they go on there and work, and the check engine light isn't on, your car will pass.

Maybe, I need to provide some more info. We're talking Infiniti here. They've taken care of me for I don't know how long and that's one of the reason's why I've bought vehicles from them. For the service and support, driving down to my house to drop off a loaner vehicle and pick-up my vehicle for routine maintenance, bringing it back nicely washed and vacuumed. I paid a premium price for the vehicle to get premium service and support.

A year ago, the Engine Service Light went off and I got my O2 sensors replaced. When I got the vehicle inspected this year, I received OBD II ECU P0420 and P0430 error codes though my Engine Service Light hadn't gone on. I called several places about the problem. The Dealership and two other places said the codes indicated that the Cats needed to be replaced. One place said that it could be a number of things and not just the cats providing those error codes. This place is a Massachusetts Registered Emissions Repair Shop (my dealership isn't) and has a five star rating by AAA members. Work done at a registered MA emissions shop can also qualify you for a waiver if your emissions fail later down the road.

So, I took my vehicle there and after cleaning the airmass sensor, reprogramming the ECM computer to specs provided by an Infiniti TSB and other diagnostics, he also concluded that the cats were defective. He then informed me about the Federal Emissions Long-Term Warranty and to contact the dealer to see if they'd still cover it under warranty since I was only 3k over the warranty and the Engine Service Light didn't go off though it should have. I spoke to him and another registered place about aftermarket cats but neither recommended them since I'm trying to pass the MA emissions test and Infiniti/Nissan and Volkswagen vehicles have very low/tight emission thresholds. Checking on some Infiniti/Nissan forums, the only talk about aftermarket cats were one's that could be specially purchased that met CA emissions and those aren't much cheaper than the factory ones.

If I had been close to or over 90k, I wouldn't be upset about it. Being 3k makes me upset.

jagec - You don't know about CA and MA emission standards.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,154
58
91
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Well, in all honesty....how they hell long are they supposed to warranty the parts for? 80k, or 83k? How about 85? Can we get a 90k? When do they draw the line?

Seriously....if your car had 90k on it, would you still feel the same way? Either way, what's the difference? The manufacturers don't want to warranty the parts that long...the government makes them do it. So you can bet that none of them will be willing to help at all over 80k, and personally, I don't blame them.

Now, I understand your position....you're just over the warranty and they failed. But this is a long-term warranty...it has to end somewhere.

Regarding your problem....I'd let the dealer diagnose it. What the hell is an "emissions specialist", anyway? You can't be one...it's impossible. All the emissions system is, is the EFI system. Nobody can be an "expert" in all brands.
Your dealer will be far more qualified to diagnose this than any independent shop. As mentioned before, this could just be one of the sensors. Or, your guy could be right, in which case I would demand that someone install some aftermarket cats on my car. "Tolerances and sensitivity" my butt. If they go on there and work, and the check engine light isn't on, your car will pass.

Maybe, I need to provide some more info. We're talking Infiniti here. They've taken care of me for I don't know how long and that's one of the reason's why I've bought vehicles from them. For the service and support, driving down to my house to drop off a loaner vehicle and pick-up my vehicle for routine maintenance, bringing it back nicely washed and vacuumed. I paid a premium price for the vehicle to get premium service and support.

A year ago, the Engine Service Light went off and I got my O2 sensors replaced. When I got the vehicle inspected this year, I received OBD II ECU P0420 and P0430 error codes though my Engine Service Light hadn't gone on. I called several places about the problem. The Dealership and two other places said the codes indicated that the Cats needed to be replaced. One place said that it could be a number of things and not just the cats providing those error codes. This place is a Massachusetts Registered Emissions Repair Shop (my dealership isn't) and has a five star rating by AAA members. Work done at a registered MA emissions shop can also qualify you for a waiver if your emissions fail later down the road.

So, I took my vehicle there and after cleaning the airmass sensor, reprogramming the ECM computer to specs provided by an Infiniti TSB and other diagnostics, he also concluded that the cats were defective. He then informed me about the Federal Emissions Long-Term Warranty and to contact the dealer to see if they'd still cover it under warranty since I was only 3k over the warranty and the Engine Service Light didn't go off though it should have. I spoke to him and another registered place about aftermarket cats but neither recommended them since I'm trying to pass the MA emissions test and Infiniti/Nissan and Volkswagen vehicles have very low/tight emission thresholds. Checking on some Infiniti/Nissan forums, the only talk about aftermarket cats were one's that could be specially purchased that met CA emissions and those aren't much cheaper than the factory ones.

If I had been close to or over 90k, I wouldn't be upset about it. Being 3k makes me upset.

jagec - You don't know about CA and MA emission standards.
A few random observations:

1. The emissions test in MA is simply an OBDII scan. That's it. No fault codes, you pass. Same as here in NC and lots of other states.

2. I see your point about possibly getting a waiver if you get your work done at a registered emissions shop, but the fact remains that an independent shop does not know as much about your car as the dealer does...especially when dealing with a not-so-common car like your Infiniti. Now, can you possibly find a better mechanic for your Ford or Chevy at in independent shop...yes, if all you have around town is small-time dealerships. But not if you have big dealerships. The dealership will always have the best tech in town for that particular brand if it's a big one.

3. If the aftermarket cats don't set off the check engine light, your car passes. I very seriously doubt your OBDII system is any more sensitive than other cars' OBDII systems. That's likely a case of folks with an uncommon car thinking there's something extra-special about their parts. There isn't. The cat either does its job, or it doesn't and turns the check engine light on.

4. I found converters for your car for a little over 200 bucks in many places. These are aftermarket, but considering the price of the factory converters, I'd have to try the aftermarkets. People buy aftermarket converters all day long that work just fine....there's nothing magical about an Infiniti converter.

5. Regarding this quote:
I paid a premium price for the vehicle to get premium service and support.
Dude, get over it. You have a QX4, not a freaking Mercedes or a BMW. A QX4 costs the same as an EXPLORER, for crying out loud. There are plenty of people who paid more for domestic SUV's and the same price to service them. They have the same emissions warranty, too. 3k over or 10k over, I don't see the difference. Now, if you were like, 25 miles over, I could see your point, because you could make a great case that the problem existed before the warranty ran out. 3k...not so much. Not saying the problem wasn't there, but 3k is a long time. They have to break you off at some point.

 

redgtxdi

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2004
5,464
8
81
One other thing..........

There is one thing you *could* pin on the dealership.

IF you really wanted a new car right now........you could trade that one in, thus pinning the smog burden on THEM!!! (Yes, if you trade-in, it's their responsibility, no longer yours)

(shrug)
 

alimoalem

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2005
4,025
0
0
Originally posted by: redgtxdi
One other thing..........

There is one thing you *could* pin on the dealership.

IF you really wanted a new car right now........you could trade that one in, thus pinning the smog burden on THEM!!! (Yes, if you trade-in, it's their responsibility, no longer yours)

(shrug)

or you could set the odometer back 8k miles so you have a 5k mile cushion

* OP, if you happen to do this, it's all on you, i'm not going down with you :p it's a felony, iirc, but i doubt you'd actually get caught...you know what, just get the oem converters
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Man up and pay the money.

You're convinced they need replacing and have defended your position.

You've defended Infinity to high heaven.

You're still whining and sniveling.

If you can afford the car, you have to be able to afford the upkeep. Simple as that.

Pay it.
 

drnickriviera

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2001
2,431
243
116
FYI, I had a PO420 on a lexus. Cleaned the MAF and even tested it per factory manual instructions. Everything was good. Turns out the MAF was bad, code went away after it was replaced.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
jagec - You don't know about CA and MA emission standards.

I was unaware that Infiniti was the OEM cat supplier to every single automobile in CA and MA, and that no other companies are capable of producing a cat that will pass those standards.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
jagec - You don't know about CA and MA emission standards.

I was unaware that Infiniti was the OEM cat supplier to every single automobile in CA and MA, and that no other companies are capable of producing a cat that will pass those standards.

Nope but unfortunately, I just called a few more repair shops and they also mention that Infiniti/Nissan QX4/Pathfinder has a very sensitive ECM which aftermarket cats will fail after only a few months. Closing on a new house this month, spending an additional $1.8k is something I'm not looking forward to.

Thanks for trolling and adding so much to the thread!!!
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
0
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
jagec - You don't know about CA and MA emission standards.

I was unaware that Infiniti was the OEM cat supplier to every single automobile in CA and MA, and that no other companies are capable of producing a cat that will pass those standards.

Nope but unfortunately, I just called a few more repair shops and they also mention that Infiniti/Nissan QX4/Pathfinder has a very sensitive ECM which aftermarket cats will fail after only a few months. Closing on a new house this month, spending an additional $1.8k is something I'm not looking forward to.

Thanks for trolling and adding so much to the thread!!!

Dude. While I'm trying not to troll, you should have bought a Holden Adventra Cross-8.

Seriously, AWD madness with a big Aussie V8=fun :D
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Get the aftermarket cats, pass the inspection, and worry about the aftermarket cats next year.
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
I feel your pain - that sucks. But it's all part of owning a luxury car.