Car of the year, MT vs AM

[Arkaign]

Although I've never driven one myself, the ATTS system (Active Torque Transfer System) installed on 1997 Honda Prelude has supposedly removed torque steer.

I wonder why this technology hasn't caught on?

Back to the OP, the GTI is a nice car, but the Fusion seems like it deserves car of the year award.

Funny that you mention the ATTS in the 5g Prelude. I had one, but had to get someone to disable it after adding a Jackson Racing SC. The system couldn't quite 'sync' up with the added power, and behaved really bizarrely. If I remember correctly, their system (since updated to go in some Acuras) transferred more power to the outside wheel in a turn to counter understeer, and I don't think it did much with torque steer (holding the wheel straight under hard acceleration in a straight line and feeling it 'tug' to one side or back and forth is my understanding of what torque steer is conventionally understood as). A good LSD on a FWD vehicle helps torque steer a bit by balancing the power to both drive wheels better, as opposed to having the single-tire burnout

 

[zerocool84]

I don't think the interior alone makes the GTI a good car...it has very good dynamics. It's practical and has a great interior. While it may be slightly overpriced in view of the competition, I don't think horsepower alone should determine the worth of a car...same reason I love the Mazda MX-5. Obviously we all have our own criteria on what makes a great car...so I know plenty of people do not agree with my setiment.

The MX-5 is priced accordingly. It's not overpriced compared to it's competition. The GTI is. Also it's not like the GTI is a handling king either. It handles well but nothing special compared to it's competition either. If the GTI offered more performance for the price then it would be a much better car but it doesn't. It's a "performance" car sold as one but fails short.

 

[Arkaign]

The MX-5 is priced accordingly. It's not overpriced compared to it's competition. The GTI is. Also it's not like the GTI is a handling king either. It handles well but nothing special compared to it's competition either. If the GTI offered more performance for the price then it would be a much better car but it doesn't. It's a "performance" car sold as one but fails short.

The MX-5 is also pretty god damned durable as well. Those things are used basically bone-stock in brutal racing series with little ill effect, and can also be modded into track monsters with a bit of investment. I'd hazard to guess that if you took GTI's out and subjected them to the same abuse, that we'd see a different result.

EDIT : I had my 'enthusiast' glasses and hat on a little too tight on for that post.

The GTI and Miata are both perfectly capable road cars, and a GTI offers a unique balance in the FF hatch category for comfort, style, and performance. It's better that we have it on the market than not.

 

[yh125d]

Both are great cars (though I'm biased towards the fusion as an owner), but I prefer the volvo C30 to the GTI in that segment

 

[Arkaign]

Both are great cars (though I'm biased towards the fusion as an owner), but I prefer the volvo C30 to the GTI in that segment

That Volvo is very cool! Interestingly, it's also a C1 vehicle a la the Speed3 / Euro Focus RS. I have only seen a handful on the road though.

 

[yh125d]

That Volvo is very cool! Interestingly, it's also a C1 vehicle a la the Speed3 / Euro Focus RS. I have only seen a handful on the road though.

Yeah its really quite a good car imo but it often gets looked over. Its better looking than any other hatchback these days (cept maybe the new fiesta), but I know that a lot of people don't really like the rear end. Seems pretty spacious for a hatch, has the solid euro premium feel, and a great 227hp turbo 5 up front so it oughta beat a GTI in a straight line if not round corners. Also, you don't have to worry about getting made fun of for having a cheap car ("hey look at that dude in the golf" "it's a GTI!"). I think it gets looked over because everyone knows some grandpa who drives a volvo and thinks these are the same, but after my S60 R I know volvos can be quite good fun




I'm considering a MT C30 for my next car

 

[Arkaign]

Seriously the C30 is so damned rare that I bet if you debadged it people would have absolutely no idea WTF it was. I think the turbo 5 can probably be modded pretty far north as well

 

[yh125d]

Seriously the C30 is so damned rare that I bet if you debadged it people would have absolutely no idea WTF it was. I think the turbo 5 can probably be modded pretty far north as well

Probably. You're not going to see two C30s parked next to each other outside of a parking lot soon (what a good sight that would be though)



IIRC the main differences between the 2.5 in the C30 and the 300HP 2.5 in the S60 R are forged internals, two intercoolers, a diff turbo and tuning. The stock tune is quite conservative as well, from what I can tell

 

[LTC8K6]

If they do that, is there any transmission that would mate up to it since Fusion is FWD?

Fusion Sport 3.5L is availabe with AWD, so it seems the hardware is already in place.

 

[holden j caufield]

the Nissan GT-R was the true motor trend car of the year

 

[c3p0]

the Nissan GT-R was the true motor trend car of the year

Link???

c3p0
:\

 

[PricklyPete]

The MX-5 is priced accordingly. It's not overpriced compared to it's competition. The GTI is. Also it's not like the GTI is a handling king either. It handles well but nothing special compared to it's competition either. If the GTI offered more performance for the price then it would be a much better car but it doesn't. It's a "performance" car sold as one but fails short.

Huh? They have very similar pricing (both starting around $24k...$27k if you do the mazda hard top)...and the Mazda is a lot less functional for the money (although still a great car for a pure driving factor). I'm not saying the GTI isn't slightly pricey, but in my opinion, I can see where it would be worth it to some...not to mention you can get a 40+ HP boost and 70+ ft-lbs increase for $600 aftermarket with a very simple ECU mod.

Edit: I re-read your post and see you said "compared to it's competition"...not to the GTI. The MX-5 really doesn't have any competition in the US...at least not anymore now that the Solstice is gone. I think it is valid to point out that the MX-5 does have the same price "span" as the GTI and the GTI has a lot more functionality/luxury/features/horsepower/etc...although the MX-5 obviously beats it with regard to driving dynamics.

 

[DivideBYZero]

The GTI only has 1 engine option (2.0T), afaik. The Golf has either the 2.5 or TDI. VW considers the GTI and Golf as separate models.

Only in the US they do, and it is clearly stupid. Like I said, the Golf line has a huge range of engine options everywhere else, it's a shame you get a small handfull of power options.

 

[zerocool84]

Huh? They have very similar pricing (both starting around $24k...$27k if you do the mazda hard top)...and the Mazda is a lot less functional for the money (although still a great car for a pure driving factor). I'm not saying the GTI isn't slightly pricey, but in my opinion, I can see where it would be worth it to some...not to mention you can get a 40+ HP boost and 70+ ft-lbs increase for $600 aftermarket with a very simple ECU mod.

Edit: I re-read your post and see you said "compared to it's competition"...not to the GTI. The MX-5 really doesn't have any competition in the US...at least not anymore now that the Solstice is gone. I think it is valid to point out that the MX-5 does have the same price "span" as the GTI and the GTI has a lot more functionality/luxury/features/horsepower/etc...although the MX-5 obviously beats it with regard to driving dynamics.

Well see you can't compare the two cars cus they aren't even in the same category. Two completely different cars aiming for two completely different outcomes. It's like comparing a CR-V and a Fusion. They could be around the same price but are aimed differently. The MX-5 does what it does very well and it's not overpriced. The GTI doesn't do what it's marketed to do well. Especially since it's category has a lot of competition now it needs to step up it's game. Years back it didn't have much and it was a great car in it's category but everyone else has stepped up their game. They haven't and need to.

 

[PricklyPete]

Well see you can't compare the two cars cus they aren't even in the same category. Two completely different cars aiming for two completely different outcomes. It's like comparing a CR-V and a Fusion. They could be around the same price but are aimed differently. The MX-5 does what it does very well and it's not overpriced. The GTI doesn't do what it's marketed to do well. Especially since it's category has a lot of competition now it needs to step up it's game. Years back it didn't have much and it was a great car in it's category but everyone else has stepped up their game. They haven't and need to.

I get your point with regard to price, but I disagree that it is not a great car in its category worthy of the money they are asking. After having driven one, I feel it does a great job in its category...and apparently I'm not alone with professional car critics also thinking highly enough about the overall package for Automobile Magazine to give it COTY and Car & Driver to give it 10 Best Award. Even people who I would not consider "professional car critics" rated it highest in its category (Popular Mechanics...I obviously don't hold a lot of weight with what they said...but it is at least another example of people seeing the cars merits after having driven it and its competition). I'm not saying it is the end-all-be-all car for everyone...but I do think it is a very good car for the category of car it is marketed as (sporty functional hatchback).

 

[Throckmorton]

GTI? Seriously? Ho hum....

I would have to go with the fusion.

 

[StageLeft]

Definitely appeal to diff crowds. These car of year comparisons are so damned specific. It's like arguing which celebrity is the hottest. It is just not something that can be effectively quantified.

I do think VW are overpriced as hell, per above. If I was looking to spend that money I'd get into a luxury brand like infiniti or acura. VW seems basically to have luxury prices and although it's definitely more polished/luxury feeling than non-luxury brands it is still just a volkswagen. It's been a long damn time since one was quick compared to its competition without spending vast amounts more money. The last interesting thing VW did was that awd fast gti (?) and it was about a million dollars, the brand is basically very forgettable to me.

 

[Stunt]

The only reason Fusion is car of the year is because it was finally a 'domestic' product that could actually compete in its respective market. It wasn't leaps and bounds over the competition, in fact it's actually quite bland; but so is the Camry.

The GTI is a great car and I don't mind the title being given to VW as it becomes the largest car maker in the world and has huge potential going forward to transfer technology from the Porsche, Lamborghini, and Audi brands but the GTI is preventing the Scirocco from coming to the Canadian and American markets and I think it's a far better product.