Car Makers Expect to Hit Fuel Goals

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Strk
Hyundai is the fifth largest auto company in the world, just above Honda. They're working hard to increase their presence in the US though.

My fault, I meant to say they are a small fish in the US market. Their 2008 sales in the US were roughly 400,000 units, less than one-third of what Honda sells here (and nearly one-sixth of what Toyota sells here).

 

[JTsyo]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
I'd be really interested to see how in 6 years Ford/GM/Chrysler are going to make trucks with a 30mpg average. Are we going to see more trucks with 4 cylinder engines rolling off the lot? Will the v8 go the way of the dodo? And does that include diesels like the F350 and Ram 3500? I'd hate to think they would sacrifice frame/space to get a truck that still has power, but i don't see how they do it when today's trucks are barely hitting 20mpg.

I think the mpg is an average for the fleet. So as long as the cars they sell average out the trucks they should be OK. I haven't see this bill so it might be different.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
These are the same automakers that thought their business plan was sound as well. But with taxpayers paying the bill, I am sure they can make cars that get 100mpg. Will anyone want to buy them though?

The Audi A2 made years ago could get over 90mpg on diesel. They're just ultra-lightweight.

High gas mileage vehicles are more than feasible, as long as we ease up on safety and emission standards.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Besides Carol Browner just said everything will be fine, no dramatic fleet changes are necessary, and we can still have our large cars and SUV's. She apparently knows about some advanced technologies that we don't...
**********
The Obama administration maintains the new fuel standards can be met without forcing more small cars into the market.

"Because every (size) category has to get more efficient, if the soccer mom wants to buy her minivan, it will be a more fuel-efficient minivan. If someone wants to buy a big SUV, it will be a more fuel-efficient SUV," said Carol Browner, director of the White House Office of Energy and Climate Change.

She said companies can use advanced technologies to improve fuel efficiency without dramatically changing their fleets.

There are a number of ways you can have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. Variable valve timing is one way. Honda's VTEC system allows for multiple cam profiles, for example you can have a low RPM profile optimized for low fuel consumption, then a high RPM, high performance cam profile. VTEC was developed a long time ago and even today the domestics still don't have anything like it as far as I know. You can also shut off cylinders when you don't need a lot of power to save fuel. I think the domestics are starting to offer this feature with some of their V6 and V8 engines. The technology improves fuel economy between 5.5% and 7.5%. And then there's turbocharging, which is a great way to increase efficiency of an engine.

There are a lot of good technologies to increase fuel economy, it just doesn't seem like many of them are used on vehicles today.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
High gas mileage vehicles are more than feasible, as long as we ease up on safety and emission standards.

Or advance automobile technology. You know, things like materials science, composites...

Although it will be an uphill battle to change the typical American mindset that equates big/heavy to safe/sturdy.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: techs
Interesting. While more cars from China and Italy (Italy?) are bad for the US, I guess the US automakers don't see the crisis the righties predicted.

What "crisis" are you referring to?

What "crisis" have the "righties" predicted?

Originally posted by: techs
The real tragedy is that the US automakers severly cut back on spending on fuel efficient car design during the Bush years, due to tax policies.

What GWB admin "tax policies" encouraged/forced auto companies to cut back on R&D for fuel efficiency?

TIA

Fern

sigh. I guess you want to forget about the past 8 years. I don't blame you.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: techs
Interesting. While more cars from China and Italy (Italy?) are bad for the US, I guess the US automakers don't see the crisis the righties predicted.

What "crisis" are you referring to?

What "crisis" have the "righties" predicted?

Originally posted by: techs
The real tragedy is that the US automakers severly cut back on spending on fuel efficient car design during the Bush years, due to tax policies.

What GWB admin "tax policies" encouraged/forced auto companies to cut back on R&D for fuel efficiency?

TIA

Fern

sigh. I guess you want to forget about the past 8 years. I don't blame you.

Not really, I'm more thinking I'd like to forget the last 8 minutes I've devoted to this thread.

The questions I asked seemed simple and reasonable, can you not answer?

Fern

 

[LTC8K6]

VTEC was developed a long time ago and even today the domestics still don't have anything like it as far as I know.

VVT has been on domestics for years now.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: techs
Interesting. While more cars from China and Italy (Italy?) are bad for the US, I guess the US automakers don't see the crisis the righties predicted.

What "crisis" are you referring to?

What "crisis" have the "righties" predicted?

Originally posted by: techs
The real tragedy is that the US automakers severly cut back on spending on fuel efficient car design during the Bush years, due to tax policies.

What GWB admin "tax policies" encouraged/forced auto companies to cut back on R&D for fuel efficiency?

TIA

Fern

sigh. I guess you want to forget about the past 8 years. I don't blame you.

I thought the latest advances by GM in terms of Hybrids, better engine technology and even the Volt all were developed or started while Bush was in office.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: techs
Interesting. While more cars from China and Italy (Italy?) are bad for the US, I guess the US automakers don't see the crisis the righties predicted.

What "crisis" are you referring to?

What "crisis" have the "righties" predicted?

Originally posted by: techs
The real tragedy is that the US automakers severly cut back on spending on fuel efficient car design during the Bush years, due to tax policies.

What GWB admin "tax policies" encouraged/forced auto companies to cut back on R&D for fuel efficiency?

TIA

Fern

sigh. I guess you want to forget about the past 8 years. I don't blame you.

I thought the latest advances by GM in terms of Hybrids, better engine technology and even the Volt all were developed or started while Bush was in office.

They were, mainly because the Bush administration was such a profitable 8 years for the oil industry. Consumers got tired of getting raped at the pump; they cut back their driving and wanted more fuel efficient automobiles.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Atreus21
In my opinion irrelevant.

Ends don't justify the means. The government has no business dictating a national mpg standard.

If we want to decrease our dependence on foreign oil which many of the profits from go to enemies of our country we should.

USA oil import data.

I don't see many "enemies" on that list, well, truth be told, I don't see a single real "enemy".

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Corn
USA oil import data.

I don't see many "enemies" on that list, well, truth be told, I don't see a single real "enemy".

US consumption fuels the world price, which sets prices everywhere depending on the grade, even if we don't buy directly from iran or libya or wherever.

 

[*kjm]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: techs
Interesting. While more cars from China and Italy (Italy?) are bad for the US, I guess the US automakers don't see the crisis the righties predicted.

What "crisis" are you referring to?

What "crisis" have the "righties" predicted?

Originally posted by: techs
The real tragedy is that the US automakers severly cut back on spending on fuel efficient car design during the Bush years, due to tax policies.

What GWB admin "tax policies" encouraged/forced auto companies to cut back on R&D for fuel efficiency?

TIA

Fern

sigh. I guess you want to forget about the past 8 years. I don't blame you.

I thought the latest advances by GM in terms of Hybrids, better engine technology and even the Volt all were developed or started while Bush was in office.

They were, mainly because the Bush administration was such a profitable 8 years for the oil industry. Consumers got tired of getting raped at the pump; they cut back their driving and wanted more fuel efficient automobiles.

Cars true but what about Joe that has to have towing cap. and has to hall around heavy loads for work or pleasure (boat) (camper) (hunting) ect. I wood work and hunt and the last thing I want is to put bloody game/ 300bf of lumber/ 17ft boat behind my 56mpg car/truck. I will till you now I will be a great danger to you all. Then I'll be told that I cant do that by them and it will go on and on.
People knew this was comming in the 70's (I'm 43) and they bought what they didn't need or use but to kill us that need them is crazy!

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Corn
USA oil import data.

I don't see many "enemies" on that list, well, truth be told, I don't see a single real "enemy".

US consumption fuels the world price, which sets prices everywhere depending on the grade, even if we don't buy directly from iran or libya or wherever.

Perhaps you'd like to explain how the oil consumption of the USA today differs from last summer when the price of oil was 3 times its current price.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Or advance automobile technology. You know, things like materials science, composites...

So can we put you in the "Average Americans Shouldn't Be Able To Afford Automobiles" column?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Or advance automobile technology. You know, things like materials science, composites...

So can we put you in the "Average Americans Shouldn't Be Able To Afford Automobiles" column?

Not tomorrow. But the fuel economy standards don't take effect tomorrow either.

Funny thing about new materials costs. They tend to get cheaper over time. In fact most technology costs work that way.

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: Drakkon
I'd be really interested to see how in 6 years Ford/GM/Chrysler are going to make trucks with a 30mpg average. Are we going to see more trucks with 4 cylinder engines rolling off the lot? Will the v8 go the way of the dodo? And does that include diesels like the F350 and Ram 3500? I'd hate to think they would sacrifice frame/space to get a truck that still has power, but i don't see how they do it when today's trucks are barely hitting 20mpg.

Uhhh how about diesels and electric motors.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
In my opinion irrelevant.

Ends don't justify the means. The government has no business dictating a national mpg standard.

You're right. Its far better for the Government to start a war to ensure sufficient oil supplies for our gas guzzlers. That's the proper role of Government! WAR!

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Genx87


They built and sold cars Americans wanted and that was a problem? Well give it 6 years and see what Govt Motors spits out before getting on your high horse about GM, Chrysler, and Ford not producing vehicles people wanted in the past.

You can produce the products your customers want now while designing cars to meet future requirements. GM and Chrysler put all their eggs in the SUV basket and let their sedans and small cars become even shittier. Contrast to the Japanese makes. They have great cars in all segments.

The multimillion dollar CEOs at GM and Chrysler were too dumb to see this. Makes me wonder what makes them worth their paychecks.

How have Hybrid sales been since the crash of oil? So great one foreign manufacturing stopped producing them for the market?

They're down, of course, but you can be damn sure that the Japanese companies are still aggressively developing them so when gas does go back up, they're ready.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Genx87


They built and sold cars Americans wanted and that was a problem? Well give it 6 years and see what Govt Motors spits out before getting on your high horse about GM, Chrysler, and Ford not producing vehicles people wanted in the past.

You can produce the products your customers want now while designing cars to meet future requirements. GM and Chrysler put all their eggs in the SUV basket and let their sedans and small cars become even shittier. Contrast to the Japanese makes. They have great cars in all segments.

The multimillion dollar CEOs at GM and Chrysler were too dumb to see this. Makes me wonder what makes them worth their paychecks.

How have Hybrid sales been since the crash of oil? So great one foreign manufacturing stopped producing them for the market?

They're down, of course, but you can be damn sure that the Japanese companies are still aggressively developing them so when gas does go back up, they're ready.

Really!?! The current Malibu is shittier than the old Malibu, the Fusion is worse than the Contour, The Cruze is a POS compared to the Cobalt? Sounds like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Ktulu
Really!?! The current Malibu is shittier than the old Malibu, the Fusion is worse than the Contour, The Cruze is a POS compared to the Cobalt? Sounds like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I wasn't commenting on Ford... but they seem to have their act together.

The Cruze isn't out yet, so it remains to be seen how a big of a disappointment it is.

I used to be a GM small car fan for some reason, but they just kept getting progressively worse. My 99 and 01 Cavaliers were very good... and my little brother's 00 is still going strong. My wife's 04 Saturn Ion guzzled gas and the dealership couldn't tell us why or fix the leaking trunk. My father's '07 Cobalt has a check engine light that 3 different dealerships can't fix.

Seems to be getting progressively shittier, at least from my experience.

My sister-in-law's 1999 Malibu was a nice car. Then the model started getting progressively uglier, but I haven't paid much attention since.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Ktulu
Really!?! The current Malibu is shittier than the old Malibu, the Fusion is worse than the Contour, The Cruze is a POS compared to the Cobalt? Sounds like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I wasn't commenting on Ford... but they seem to have their act together.

The Cruze isn't out yet, so it remains to be seen how a big of a disappointment it is.

I used to be a GM small car fan for some reason, but they just kept getting progressively worse. My 99 and 01 Cavaliers were very good... and my little brother's 00 is still going strong. My wife's 04 Saturn Ion guzzled gas and the dealership couldn't tell us why or fix the leaking trunk. My father's '07 Cobalt has a check engine light that 3 different dealerships can't fix.

Seems to be getting progressively shittier, at least from my experience.

My sister-in-law's 1999 Malibu was a nice car. Then the model started getting progressively uglier, but I haven't paid much attention since.

It's been out in markets around the world minus the US. It's actually been getting really good reviews. You're last sentence tells me exactly what you know about what's going on currently.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Ktulu
It's been out in markets around the world minus the US. It's actually been getting really good reviews.

That's one of GM's huge problems. They make a great car for every market but the United States and then give us the half rate shit. We'll see if they keep it up or if they'll start sending decent models here.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: ElFenix
US consumption fuels the world price, which sets prices everywhere depending on the grade, even if we don't buy directly from iran or libya or wherever.

Perhaps you'd like to explain how the oil consumption of the USA today differs from last summer when the price of oil was 3 times its current price.

i didn't say it was the only factor.

for internationally traded commodities demand anywhere contributes to price anywhere. there isn't suddenly less demand because we decide to embargo somewhere.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Ktulu
It's been out in markets around the world minus the US. It's actually been getting really good reviews.

That's one of GM's huge problems. They make a great car for every market but the United States and then give us the half rate shit. We'll see if they keep it up or if they'll start sending decent models here.

Here's my take on that. Everybody cried and cried for GM to bring over their over sees models (Astra, Insignia, Commodore, etc) and claimed they would definately buy if they did. Well the Astra went pretty much ignored, the Aura got good attention but most people pretty much ignored it mostly because it was a Saturn and same for the G8, awesome car but most people don't want to buy a Pontiac. If you ask me they can import all the cars they want it won't matter if it's wearing the wrong badge.