Car Audiophiles: Questions and Recommendations

anonymouschris

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2001
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I am purchasing a new truck in the next few weeks. It is going to be a regular cab so space will be an issue. I looked behind the seats and it I am pretty sure I can fit atleast 2 x 10"s and an amp. I could possibly fit 2 x 12"s, but not sure. I have done some BASIC car audio stuff with some left over equipment from my friends (hooked up head unit, amp, and subs), but am not sure if I did it properly. Okay, I'll just cut to the chase. I need advice on what equipment I should purchase and also some links to some good tutorials to car audio sites. Here are some questions off the top of my head:

1. What are some sub recommendations?
2. What are some good amp recommendations that will be able to power two 10"s or 12"s
3. Do I need an amp to power the rest of the speakers in my car?
4. Should I try to build my own custom box or get professionals to do it for me?
5. What are some good brands or things to look out for for headunits? How much should I expect to spend?
6. What are capaitors, What do they do, and do I need them?
7. Are there other accessories that I will need for a good sound setup?

Since I am planning on owning this car for quite some time I am hoping to make a good investment in the sound system. Please help!!!! so I start planning.

Thanks!!!
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: wongsoongpak
I am purchasing a new truck in the next few weeks. It is going to be a regular cab so space will be an issue. I looked behind the seats and it I am pretty sure I can fit atleast 2 x 10"s and an amp. I could possibly fit 2 x 12"s, but not sure. I have done some BASIC car audio stuff with some left over equipment from my friends (hooked up head unit, amp, and subs), but am not sure if I did it properly. Okay, I'll just cut to the chase. I need advice on what equipment I should purchase and also some links to some good tutorials to car audio sites. Here are some questions off the top of my head:

1. What are some sub recommendations?
2. What are some good amp recommendations that will be able to power two 10"s or 12"s
3. Do I need an amp to power the rest of the speakers in my car?
4. Should I try to build my own custom box or get professionals to do it for me?
5. What are some good brands or things to look out for for headunits? How much should I expect to spend?
6. What are capaitors, What do they do, and do I need them?
7. Are there other accessories that I will need for a good sound setup?

Since I am planning on owning this car for quite some time I am hoping to make a good investment in the sound system. Please help!!!! so I start planning.

Thanks!!!

Ok.
1) The one that does what YOu need. What are your needs? Infinity's are good starter subs. Orion and lower JL's work well too. For further up the food chain (And more money) you have the JL W7, DD's, Adire Brahma, Shockers, Resonant Engineering and Blueprints. Although those manufacturers make lower level subs.
Price? From around 100 bucks to around a grand a peice.
I would look at......Adire. JL. Infinity. Blueprint. Digital Designs. Orion. Phoenix Gold.

2) Alot of people wont say it, but truly. Watts are watts. Amps, in their most basic form, sound EXACTLY the same. Simply buy a good brand name and you'll be fine. JBL is king of bang for the buck. Good, reliable amps that run at rated power. From there, it gets expensive FAST.
I'd look at....JBL. Phoenix Gold. PPI. Orion. Arc Audio. Adire.

3) Not always. If you only use an aftermarket sub / amp combo, you'll have ALOT of bass with not much mids / highs. For little extra money you can upgrade to nice components (Infinity `350, Adire Kodas 369) with another 150 or so for an amp. You can go even cheaper as well. A small investment here will make VOLUMES difference in both sound quality and blending with bass.

4) If you have basic woodworking skills, you can try yourself. Its fairly cheap so even if you completely botch it, not much loss. Having nothing, you'd be in around 100 bucks, including tools. If you have the tools....25 bucks. Sealed is VERY easy (Can you make a cube?) Ported slightly harder, and has to be a bit more precise. Bandpass I would not recommend for a beginner. DO NOT BUY PREFAB BANDPASS!!!!

5) HU's. Alot of different opinions. Anywhere from 200 to well over 2 thousand. Alot of very good models, VERY good models, run around 250 to 500. Pioneer, Clarion and Eclipse are what I would look at.

6) Caps. Thats a whole post in itself. REALLY basic. Amps has a huge bass note, requires X amount of power. Battery / Alternator cant supply it / cant supply it fast enough, cap supplies it. IMO, a cap is worthless. You only need them if your electrical system is already strained. Why bandaid it? Buy a better battery. Optima Yellowtop.

7) Again, alot of opinion. Some go KISS. HU, amp, speaker. Others like CONTROL. HU, EQ, Croossvers, amps, speakers, caps, relays for delayed turn on. Up to you.

I would start with a simple objective. Do you want a bit more bass? 1 good 10". Do you want amazing SQ all around? 2 10" or 12"s, or 1 15" if you can fit it. Then good components up front. Rear fill is generally a no-no. The point of SQ based car stereos is to reproduce the concert effect. Thus, everything comes from in front of you, and rear fill can really hurt this.
So, if I were you, say 1 12" (You can always upgrade and it keeps initial cost down) an amp to drive it (GO OVERKILL. Get twice the amp you need, sop if you DO upgrade you can use the same amp). A nice set of components up front with an amp for them, and a HU.

This will be my system..
Eclipse HU.
Adire Brahma 12"
Adire Revolution amp (1600 watts x1 @ 1 ohm)
Adire OR CDT components
Undecided on component amp.
Behringer EQ.
Crossovers as needed.

Here are some exellent audio forums....
Car Sound
Sound Illusions
Teamamp...A bit vendor specific and smaller but still good.

And in case you bought a Ford truck....
I welcome you here! Look for Specop_007
 

anonymouschris

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2001
3,101
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THANK YOU for the very informative post. but now i have a few more questions...

1. what is a bandpass box? how does it differ from a normal sub enclosure?
2. What are crossovers for?
3. Are equalizers really necessary? Or is it only necessary if you are really critical?
4. When I use an amp to power the components...do I use one amp to power all of them (I think I have 4 in the truck)? If so how much wattage will I be looking at?
5. You advised me to get twice the wattage I need when purchasing an amp for my sub. The problem is I am not even sure how much wattage I need for one sub. How can I figure that out?
6. Should I even consider buying a HU that has MP3 capabilities?
7. My friend has hookups to sony (30% off). Should I settle for Sony or pay more for the brands that you had recommended?

I thnk thats it for now. Again...thanks for all the help!
 

Spac3d

Banned
Jul 3, 2001
6,651
1
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Shockwave, that was excellent information. I am glad to see that someone else on here is a true car audiophile :)

When finals are over I can give my opinion :(

Spac3d
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: wongsoongpak
THANK YOU for the very informative post. but now i have a few more questions...

1. what is a bandpass box? how does it differ from a normal sub enclosure?
2. What are crossovers for?
3. Are equalizers really necessary? Or is it only necessary if you are really critical?
4. When I use an amp to power the components...do I use one amp to power all of them (I think I have 4 in the truck)? If so how much wattage will I be looking at?
5. You advised me to get twice the wattage I need when purchasing an amp for my sub. The problem is I am not even sure how much wattage I need for one sub. How can I figure that out?
6. Should I even consider buying a HU that has MP3 capabilities?
7. My friend has hookups to sony (30% off). Should I settle for Sony or pay more for the brands that you had recommended?

I thnk thats it for now. Again...thanks for all the help!

1) Kinda hard to explain. Essentially, a bandpass box, if deisgned correctly, allows for flat response through x and y points. Ported boxes are generally flat to the tuning frequency of the box, there theres a sharp rise, then a drastic fall below tuning. Sealed boxes geenrally are a gentle slope downwards in response. Now, bandpass arent bad, its just they HAVE to be specifically designed for the woofer there going to be used in. in other words, to work like there supposed to work, you buy the sub, take the specific parameters of the sub then design the box around it. All too often the stuff in stores is a generic "one size fits all" prefab bandpass with subs thrown in. This works for sealed, can be doable with ported but is an absolute flop in bandpass. Nature of the beast. There also pretty difficult to make.

2) Crossovers. Essentially, it says "These frequencies go here, these frequencies go there" OR "these frequencies can go. These frequencies do not pass.". In laymans terms, it makes sure you tweeters arebt playing bass and your subs arent playing highs. A general breakdown, your tweeters play from 20,000 hertz to 7000 hertz. Midbass from 7000 - 120 and bass is 120 and down. Well, full range is 0 - 20000 hertz. Crossovers break that down, so the 7-20k goes to tweets, the 120 - 7000 to midbass and below 120 to subs. VERY IMPORTANT! You WILL need X-O's if you replace all speakers. A tweeter will die a painful death playing low notes. Now, a sub can play high notes fine, but small speakers DO NOT like low tones. Usually, any decent set of components comes with passive crossovers so your set there, and most sub oriented amps (Mono or high power) cross overs built in for the low frequencies. So, its not too important to buy them as they sho8uld be included, but it IS important to use them.

3) Are EQ's required. Thats really a good question. Yes and no. They allow you to fine tune your system,. more then the HU allows. Its one of those things I would put later on in my list of things, unless I was designing a competition system from the get go. Once you done, if you find you want just a little better response from a very specific frequency (Say, one particular vocal note just isnt there) then you may get one. But, usually the HU controls do a good enough job.

4) Amps for components. Well, you need 1 channel on the amp for the components side. Thus, a 2 channel amp will drive a component set, left and right. A 4 channel will drive left front right front left rear right rear. Thats the simple terms You can get funky, have 2 channels for components, 2 channels for dedicated midbass, or run each speaker from a channel, but it takes a bit more work and wiring. To keep it simple and still sound pretty darned good, just get 1 channel per component side (The left side, right side) So, a 2 channel amp for a component set.

5) Only twice the wattage is you want to upgarde in the future!! Twice the wattage in even experienced hands can quickly kill subs. VERY quickly! So, if you really want a 2 subs system, but can only afford one, get the power you need now.

6) Not required, but JESUS I wish I had it!! Its a very nice feature.

7) Only you can decide the equipment you want. Unfortunately, Sony doesnt have the best, or strongest, name in audio. But then again, if the shoe fits, wear it! So, the best thing to do is go somewhere and listen to some Sony stuff. If you like it, why not? Theres alot of places online to buy really good equipment at really good prices though so....Keep your eyes peeled.

And really, the most important thing in car audio...
DEMO DEMO DEMO!!
I have personally heard 800 dollar components that I didnt like. Oh, they sounded AMAZING! But, the highs were too bright for me. I like pretty mild highs. 800 bucks, and there some of the best you can buy. So, you have to buy what YOU like the sound of. :)
 

KevinH

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2000
3,110
7
81
Hey Shock,

Just saw your specs...very nice gear you putting in. Anyhow, I'm about to install some CDT HD-62ST's for my cousin also. These comps are a GREAT bang for the buck. If you look hard enough you can get them for 2 bills and would embaress ANY piece of crap from Circuit City, though I'm sure you know this already.


Oh, as far as the main thread is concerned...um, I agree with Shock. A capacitor is not really necessary. Upgrade you alternator and/or battery first. That said I'm running a Class D amp on my Mass sub @ 1000+ RMS and a 4 Channel Zapco @ 50x4 for my fronts. I've had no problems with the electronics other than the headlights dimming slightly when it hits REAL loud.

As far as what equipment to buy. I think the biggest variance you will find is in the components you select for your front. Make SURE you listen to it yourself. Some people LOVE the harsher sounds of certain comps (aka. Focals PKs - Utopias) while others like a smoother sound (Rainbows, ADS). Whatever you do take people's opinions with a grain of salt as it's only that...their OPINION.

If you have the time check out www.sounddomain.com . That's a really good forum and has a big SQ following.

Anyhow, I'm kinda tired and I have a lot more to say on the matter but i better hit the hay.


gl,

kev
 

KevinH

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2000
3,110
7
81
Doh,

I just noticed you from Cali. If you're from So Cal..there's a TON of us SQ car audio guys around here. If you'd like, I can demo for you or point you to some guys with some great systems and are WAY more knowledgeable than myself. PM me and I'd be more than willing to help a new autiophile :).


Kev
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: Spac3d
Shockwave, that was excellent information. I am glad to see that someone else on here is a true car audiophile :)

When finals are over I can give my opinion :(

Spac3d

Yeah, I'm an audiophile at heart. PC's are my hobby, but music is my passion.

Kevin, its funny you mention Focals. It was the PolyKevlars I listened to. Amazing speakers, but WOW those tweeters stand out. They are a perfect example of when I would EQ. the tweets are just too bright for me, I'd need to EQ to calm them down a bit.
And sounddomain is, IMO, just filled with too many asshats to take very seriously.

Really, theres two important concepts. I mentioned one already. Buy what fits your needs. The second I forgot to mention. Install. Its ALL in the install. A poor install can make the best equipment in the world sound like crap. A good, well thought out install can make even average equipment sound amazing. DO NOT skip on install. That doesnt mean buy the expensive stuff. Raammat is as good as Dynamat and half the price. Knuconceptz wiring is as good as the "best" Monster cable, at a fraction of the cost. But, box design and component layout is critical.

A few more links for you...
Basic Car Audio Theory
One fiberglassing link
Install Doctor

Dont be afraid to do the install yourself. It just takes time and sometimes a bit of creativity. Your biggest problem isnt going to be what you want, but rather what fits. One of the problems of a regular cab pickup I'm afraid.
 

anonymouschris

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2001
3,101
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0
i've been really busing reading all the forums and sites that shockwave has provided...and it seems the mroe i read the more quesitons i have. thanks to shockwave and all those who have responded.
 

anonymouschris

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2001
3,101
0
0
more questions if anybody cares to answer them:

- what is the difference between a ported and sealed box?
- what materials are supposed to be used? i am confused bout when to use fiberglass and when to use wood and carpeting...
- are there any sites that teach me the correct way for builidng my own box?
- how do you properly install sound deadener? where is it necessary? i read about people installing on their roofs, how do you do that? do you have to redo the upholstery?
- to get good SQ in a truck i read from a few places that I should only use the front speakers and fade out the stock rear speakers. is this true?
- do i have to make holes in the door of my car to install component speakers? is it recommended that a newbie do this or have it profesinally done?
- should i get 2 x 10's or 2 x 12's (i know this is pretty open ended)...but i thought i would throw it in here anyway

the list just goes on...i want to get this done right...so i am researching a few months ahead of time. thanks again.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,514
43
91
5. What are some good brands or things to look out for for headunits? How much should I expect to spend?
One word: Nakamichi. Nakamichi doesn't have spectacular animated displays, but the sound quality absolutely cannot be beat. If you want a bunch of cool animations on the head unit's display, buy a Kennwood or something. If you want pure sound quality, buy Nakamichi. They run from $200 for a basic CD Head Unit, up to $1,800 for their high-end CD Head Unit.

ZV
 

KevinH

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2000
3,110
7
81
1. Ported Boxes basically have a port in them...kind of like a hole where the air vents out. A sealed box on the other hand has none. If it's your first time building a box I'd go for a sealed box as a ported box needs to be tuned correct (as in the port needs to made correctly). The pros of a ported box are that it will sound louder given the same power to the sub. The drawback is that you sacrifice some of the sound quality you'd normally get in a sealed box. Personaly, I think this is somewhat debatable as I've heard some ported boxes sound AMAZING. A sealed box on the other hand requires more power for the same output but has "better" SQ.
Personally I would check out www.speakerhole.com . They make some pretty decent boxes for the money and unless you plan on learning how to make boxes for future use as well, I'd go with a pre-fabricated box. Also check out www.crutchfield.com as they've got a pretty good tutorial on boxes.

2. As far as sound deadener goes the two spots you want to definitely deaden is the door panel where you have the components installed and the trunk area where your sub is.

3. Shockwave is planning a setup that's pretty good (same as what most people do to start): a head unit, a set of component speakers, a 4 channel amp (50-100 watts depending on your budget) to power the front speakers and rear speakers if you want some rear-fill, a 500-1000 watt amp for a sub, and a single kick ass sub/box (Adire, ID Max, Audiomobile Mass, etc.), all the approriate wiring, and an EQ if needed.


Remember with car audio it's like putting together a computer. You can always upgrade or add components to later. LIkewise, one good thing about car audio is that the used market for it is incredible. In essence, if you search ebay, you can pretty much buy an used amp for a price and sell it later with almost NO depreciation. This is the case for virtually all used car audio.


 

Mungla

Senior member
Dec 23, 2000
843
0
71
Check out the forums at www.caraudio.com. You'll find massive amounts of help there.

Pioneer Premier P760MP Headunit
Visonik Line Driver with 8v RCA outputs
Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 component system for front stage.
Infinity Kappa 3-way 6x9s for rear fill.
Visonik V4208 4-channel amp running 125w RMS x 4 channels @ 4 ohms (actual is 3.7 ohms on Infinities).
2 x 10" Rockford Fosgate HEs powered by a RF 400S amp.
Custom ported box built by me -> tuned to 39Hz.

*Soon to be added to replace the HEs*
2 x 12" Elemental Designs e12kd2 subwoofers - dual 2ohm voice coils wired to load the amp at 2ohms.
JBL BP1200.1 amp running 1 x 1200w RMS @ 2 ohms.
Custom sealed box built by me -> ported box wouldn't fit in my trunk I'm afraid

Too bad my trunk space limits me, as I would like a nice Adire 15" Brahma.
 

jteef

Golden Member
Feb 20, 2001
1,355
0
76
a thing to keep in mind is that the space you have available is going to make a whole lot of subs sound boomy. I suggest you get some more accurate measurements of the space you'll have available and download a subwoofer design program like WinISD. The point is to find a sub that works well in a small box. I haven't kept up with car audio much recently so the only subs that come to mind right now that are made for that purpose are the audiomobile MASS and the Kicker L7, I am sure there are at least 50 subs that will work right, but there are probably 500 that wont... Keep in mind that you'll need at least 2-3" of airspace in front of the sub. My ranger had a piece of cardboard on the back of the seat, removing that gave me a huge boost in output since it was so close to the front of the subs.

I had 2 old kicker comp 10's in my regular cab ranger for a long time. The boxes were about 0.8 cubic feet each. the boxes were too small and were boomy, but even with 40 watts each they were loud enough to turn heads from a half mile+.

a friend has a couple of the kicker 12" L7's in his lightning and loves them...

I think you will have problems getting a properly designed ported or bandpass box in a regular cab truck unless you do a cutout.



jt
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: wongsoongpak
more questions if anybody cares to answer them:

- what is the difference between a ported and sealed box?
- what materials are supposed to be used? i am confused bout when to use fiberglass and when to use wood and carpeting...
- are there any sites that teach me the correct way for builidng my own box?
- how do you properly install sound deadener? where is it necessary? i read about people installing on their roofs, how do you do that? do you have to redo the upholstery?
- to get good SQ in a truck i read from a few places that I should only use the front speakers and fade out the stock rear speakers. is this true?
- do i have to make holes in the door of my car to install component speakers? is it recommended that a newbie do this or have it profesinally done?
- should i get 2 x 10's or 2 x 12's (i know this is pretty open ended)...but i thought i would throw it in here anyway

the list just goes on...i want to get this done right...so i am researching a few months ahead of time. thanks again.

Some of these have been covered very well, but here goes...

1) Sealed is a cube, ported has a port in it. Ported box have tuning frequencies. SQ is a function of design in both, although sealed boxes are easier to get sounding good. Also, sealed boxes are ALOT more forgiving in measurement errors if you build it yourself. If your running a ported box, be very careful to not play below tuning frequency (You can yes, but at MUCH lower power levels) Once your below tuning, it unloads the sub from the box and power handling goes to hell FAST. Hence, the need for filters.

2) Just use Medium Density Fiberboard. Fiberglass is usually for odd shapes. Such as doing a tire well. You 'glass the inside of the tirewell the attach the wooden baffle to the 'glass. If your making anything relatively straightforward (square, rectangle, slight angles) just do MDF and forget the rest for now.

3) Yes, to a degree. Its really just cut the peicees to the right size and glue n screw them together. Check manufacturers websites, they have good tutorials and info on this.
rockfordfosgate.com
jlaudio.com (need the www with that one)
Kicker.com (I think)
adireaudio.com
Yes, I'm too lazy to link right now. :)

4) Sound deadener is probably most important on the doors and rear of your cab. Roof may need to be done as well. Installing is easy. Getting to the places to install....Different story. installing is just take a heat gun and roller. Heat it up a bit, lay it down, roll it on. Like I said, its getting TO the metal to install it on thats tricky.

5) Not always. SQ based installs are designed to re-create the concert effect, where your sitting in the middle of the audience. Thus, you never hear something from behind you. So, the no rear speakers idea is to help re-create the all from front feeling. I personally prefer no rears, but its all personal preference. If your competeing in SQ comps, I would NOT recommend rear fill, otherwise its up to you.

6) Well, if the speakers you buy dont fit in the stock locations, you'll need to make the holes bigger or mount the somewhere else. Find out what you stock speaker size is. Some components can be mounted on a plate that will fit into the stock location. It really just depends.

7) Completely up to you. Whatever will fit. Persoanlly, I would do 12's to get a little deeper bass (Minimal, but hey.) In most ways though theres absolutely 0 difference other then size. So, buy whatever you want BUT! Make sure it will fit! ;)