Car audio question: two 10" subs or one 12" sub?

[Spac3d]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: huey1124

Originally posted by: amnesiac
Hmm. What SUV do you have?
I like my bass strong but tight so I have 1 8" aluminum woofer in my pickup.
I used to have a GMC Jimmy and had 2x 12" Cerwin-Vega subs in an enclosure in the back. That was L-O-U-D.

If you want large, thumping bass to rattle your brains, get the 12". If you just want tighter bass and lots of it get the 2x 10".

I have an Isuzu Rodeo. So are you saying one 12" will be louder than two 10" subs? What about distortion? The 12" sub I linked says 100w RMS and 400w peak. How loud is 100w (at RMS)?

100W RMS is damn loud.

No it isn't. For car audio, once you push 1000watts RMS you begin to become loud.

 

[Spac3d]

Originally posted by: glen
All things being equal, the "swept air" is what matters.
By "swept air" I mean the surface area times the displacement.
ALL other variables are insignificant.

the great myth in car audio is that you have to have a box

Look, a driver makes 2 waves the exact same frequency 180 degrees out of phase with each other so you have to stop one of them or they will cancell each other out, known as distructive interferance.

In most cars, but not hatchbacks or SUVs, the best box is your trunk.
Larger is always better with subs for sound quality, especially as you approach an infinate baffle.
An IB is infinate size, or technically 10 times vas, but even 4 will do.

In an SUV you need a box to cancle the back wave of the driver.

Figure out what sort of size box you can deal with and base the drivers on that.

What the hell are you talking about? Are you implying for him to leave a woofer just laying in his trunk? That is one of the stupidest posts I have ever read.

 

[Spac3d]

Originally posted by: huey1124

Originally posted by: edro13
Yeah, definately get a sealed box. Bandpass = teh suk. I have 2x 12" Rockford XLC subs (not DVC) and I love the sound. I have a Honda Civic though, and after 5 years, I want my trunk back 😀 I am seriously thinking about getting one good 12" sub and bridging my amp into just that.

I have heard ~50 systems, and I like 12" subs best. 10"s are just too high and punchy. I like 12"s because they get a lot lower, and can keep it there.

If you ask around, I think you will find that 12"s are the most widely liked.

Go for a 12" Alpine Type R @ ~$120 online. My friend had one, and I loved it.

What about ported box? The Pioneer 12" sub comes in a ported enclosure already, and since the manufacturer made the setup, I'm assuming this is much more superior than getting prefab boxes. So.... two Pioneer 12"s then?

In that price range, an Alpine Type R would be a better choice than most. A JL sub will work too. Image Dynamics IDQ or an Adire Audio Shiva is by far the best sub in that price range.

A ported box is better for SPL (being louder) in general. However, with certain subs, a woofer may have the same or better sound quality with a ported box. You should really check with the manufacturer to see what THEY recomend for the best enclosure for your woofer and the power you will be feeding it.

 

[stevens]

Originally posted by: Spac3d

Originally posted by: glen
All things being equal, the "swept air" is what matters.
By "swept air" I mean the surface area times the displacement.
ALL other variables are insignificant.

the great myth in car audio is that you have to have a box

Look, a driver makes 2 waves the exact same frequency 180 degrees out of phase with each other so you have to stop one of them or they will cancell each other out, known as distructive interferance.

In most cars, but not hatchbacks or SUVs, the best box is your trunk.
Larger is always better with subs for sound quality, especially as you approach an infinate baffle.
An IB is infinate size, or technically 10 times vas, but even 4 will do.

In an SUV you need a box to cancle the back wave of the driver.

Figure out what sort of size box you can deal with and base the drivers on that.

What the hell are you talking about? Are you implying for him to leave a woofer just laying in his trunk? That is one of the stupidest posts I have ever read.

I think he is talking about an ib setup which is techniclly a boxless setup but the baffle for the woofer is so large that the waves dont cancle each other out. I would just go sealed. And stay away from anything that is sold at bestbuy. Get an image dynamics idq or an edesign k. There about the same price and will destroy either of those subs.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
One 18" Sub with 300 Watt Amp, Can you say Man Made Earthquake?

Some guy on the internet has 12 18" subwoofers.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: sohcrates
say, i have an off topic question.

i currently have one JL audi 15w0 in my trunk, powered by a 250 watt xtant amplifier

the box basically *is* my trunk, and i'm looking to sell it and downgrade, but keep the amp cause i like the amp

what size could i go down to before i started to notice it sux?" like, think i could live with a single 10? i'm used to the 15 bump.....

Why?
I am sure it will cost you money to down grade it actually.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: glen
In case you missed what is important, I will repost it.

Originally posted by: glen
What matters is the surface area of the driver times the displacement.
That figure is called the x-mas.
So find the x-mas of the drivers and do the math.

Why would you multiply displacement by surface area?

Sd x Xmax = Vd

Surface area multiplied by peak linear excursion = peak displacement.

 

[sohcrates]

Originally posted by: glen

Originally posted by: sohcrates
say, i have an off topic question.

i currently have one JL audi 15w0 in my trunk, powered by a 250 watt xtant amplifier

the box basically *is* my trunk, and i'm looking to sell it and downgrade, but keep the amp cause i like the amp

what size could i go down to before i started to notice it sux?" like, think i could live with a single 10? i'm used to the 15 bump.....

Why?
I am sure it will cost you money to down grade it actually.

well, i know it'll cost money, but i'm annoyed that i have no trunk space. guess what i want is a really hard hitting smaller sub

 

[deerslayer]

IMHO, the 10's will give you punchier bass, but you will sacrifice low low frequencies. I have one 12" DVC sub in a ported box fed by 550 watts which gives me plenty of low bass, but with some music, I get distortion.

You might be better off heading over to Sounddomain.com and asking this question in their forums. They are specifically car audio oriented 🙂

 

[glen]

Sohcrates, do you have a trunk?
If so, use it as the "box."
I have all the trunk space in my car and the subs are on the rear deck.

 

[sohcrates]

Originally posted by: glen
Sohcrates, do you have a trunk?
If so, use it as the "box."
I have all the trunk space in my car and the subs are on the rear deck.

yeah, i have a trunk. but free-air subs really aren't my bag

thanks though

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: glen
Sohcrates, do you have a trunk?
If so, use it as the "box."
I have all the trunk space in my car and the subs are on the rear deck.

For what it's worth the bose stereo in my maxima (and before anybody even STARTS yes I know bose is shunned by most audiophiles, but hey I bought it used and it's still good for a stock system) has a sub that sits in the deck as well and uses the trunk as the box. It's not pumping aftermarket power but it's really not bad.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: sohcrates

Originally posted by: glen
Sohcrates, do you have a trunk?
If so, use it as the "box."
I have all the trunk space in my car and the subs are on the rear deck.

yeah, i have a trunk. but free-air subs really aren't my bag

thanks though

Really?
Mine slam, and the SQ is perfect.
Installed correctly, they are unmatched for SQ.
Mine are flat from 20hz to 100hz.

Free air is a mis nomer.
Properly installed they are an IB, infinate baffle.

 

[nguyendot1]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: glen
Sohcrates, do you have a trunk?
If so, use it as the "box."
I have all the trunk space in my car and the subs are on the rear deck.

For what it's worth the bose stereo in my maxima (and before anybody even STARTS yes I know bose is shunned by most audiophiles, but hey I bought it used and it's still good for a stock system) has a sub that sits in the deck as well and uses the trunk as the box. It's not pumping aftermarket power but it's really not bad.

Man those really are that bad. If its all you listen to, it doesn't sound too bad, however after driving my dads car, a 2001 Infiniti I30t, which has the same system that yours does, the bass is almost non-existant compared to my car. He's looking for some REAL bass that bose cannot ever come close to. One 10" sub would kill the bass of that bose sub. Try 2 audiobahn AW1200q's. I own a pair in a 2cuft box (each sub 1cuft) sealed and it hits so hard the mirror is just about to come off.

whoever posted that 100wrms isnt loud needs to rethink that. 100wrms can be EXTREMELY loud if the enclosure is designed right and the speaker has a high sensitivity. No it wont win any competitions, but it can still be very loud.

Sensitivity makes a big difference in how clear and how loud they will play at a given volume. Like my audiobahns are like 93db, making them rather powerful for how much wattage i give them. Now my rockfords are like 88 or something and they require more than double the power to get the same output...

http://members.sounddomain.com/nguyendot

check out my ghetto rigged setup here 😛

 

[LS20]

http://forums.off-topic.net/showthread.php?threadid=486103

 

[Shockwave]

This thread is filled with idiocy.
First and foremost. Cone size does not determine sound quality!!
Again
Cone size does not determine sound quality!!

A 12" will be as tight and punchy as a 10 or 15" sub. Fact of life. Want proof? Do some research. If you want find anything, get beck to me.

Secondly, SPL (Sound Pressure Level) is created by moving air. The more you move, the louder it is (Barring effects of box and transfer function of vehicle) Take Xmax (Linear excursion of sub) times cone area (Sd on most T/S drawings)
Thats how much air it'll move. Thats not very accurate though, as drivers ahve many X ratings, Xmax is simply linear. After that, the movement becomes non linear and distortion occurs (I believe due to loss of BL, have to look that up) For pure SPL a more accurate measurement would be to use the lower of Xmech, Xmag and Xsus (Mechanical, Magnet and suspension). Reach X on those and you break stuff. (Not always, but dont push past it 😉 )

Bandpass boxes can sound wicked good. Problem is, they have to, HAVE TO be custom made for the particular driver you put in them. The pre fabs sound like ass because they are created as a baseline for all subs and dont work with any. They also have to be pretty accurate in measurement if you make them so dont do it unless your fairly good at box building.

Sealed and ported would be your best bet. You can do a SPL tuned ported box and be loud and lose some sound quality (SQ) or do either a sealed box or low tuned ported for good SQ.

So, in your situation (Since your not a bass head) I would run 1 12" sub. The 12 will play lower louder, which equates to better low end. (Not always true, some 10"s will go LOW.) Now, I havent seent he specs on those subs, so it could very well be that a 2 10's would together do better then the 1 12". So, while 2 10"s would probably outdo the 1 12", you would have the advantage of more power on the 12 AND less space occupied by the box. All other things being equal (Box, power to sub etc) the 10's would probably far outdo the 12's.

Is space an issue? If not, 2 10's in a low tuned box. If it is, 1 12" in a sealed box. SQ wise should be about the same. I would highly recommend a crossovers and filters. Run the sub from 60-100 hertz down (Set it as you like) and hih pass at either 20 hertz or at the tuning frequency of the box (It attenuates any signal below 20 hertz or the tuning frequency of the box)