Car and Driver 10 Best Cars

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: marincounty
Text

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
go GM :thumbsup:

Doesn't surprise me that toyota isn't in the list, with their reliability ratings dropping off so drastically. Ouch. My dad's 04 camry is before they started slacking I hope (the interior is pretty bland but mechanically-wise it is fine so far, over 100K on it now).

You must be confused. Toyota is still in the top 3 in reliability, behind Honda and Subaru.
GM is still having problems.
Go ahead and feel sorry for poor Toyota:

Japan's Toyota Motor Corp said Wednesday its operating profit grew 16.3 percent in the first half to September as strong overseas sales of key models and the weak yen offset rises in expansion and procurement costs.

[Text

Toyota's fall is non-existent, and is a product of the Toyota hater's mindset.

What does sales have to do with reliability? Toyota is basically is getting a sales ride due to the hype as being reliable. Soon that will change if things stay as they are.

It's not just sales, it's the reality. Toyota has always been very reliable, if not the most reliable car made. A few models have had problems, and that's it. GM and Ford are still not close to Toyota in reliability, and neither are German cars, no matter how much fanbois wish.

"Toyota's vaunted Lexus luxury brand has fallen from first to fifth in Consumer Reports magazine's annual predicted reliability survey. Other luxury brands took worse drubbings.
The automaker's Toyota brand and its youth-oriented Scion brand are in the top three along with Honda and its Acura, the magazine says in its April auto issue, on sale next week.

Mercedes-Benz was last among 36 brands. Other luxury brands at the bottom: Land Rover, Hummer and Jaguar"
David Champion, the magazine's director of automotive testing, blamed one model for Lexus' fall, the midsize GS that was redesigned last year. He said the car had problems in three areas ? body integrity, defined as rattles or poorly fitting panels; body hardware, such as locks and trunk mechanisms; and the sound system.

The model still rated average and earned a purchase recommendation. All other Lexus models were better than average
Mercedes' quality is so imperiled that a 9-year-old Lexus LS 400 has potentially fewer problems than a new Mercedes ML.
Text

So its in fifth place and falling.

No, you have a reading comprehension problem. Toyota is still in the top three. Lexus has fallen to number five, after having been number one for years.
Where is your Ford or GM or german car?
Car and Driver gives it's ratings based on amount of advertising, as far as I can tell.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy
I swear this place is going to turn out like a second iteration of the video card forum. PLEASE at least keep the fanboy crap in threads like these. I am sure it will eventually trickle into the tech threads as well. Not talking to you OP, you have a very legitimate point, well except maybe for C&D being a good magazine. 😛

Well, if you American fanboys would stop making threads proclaiming how good American cars are there wouldn't be any problem. 😛

well if you want to pay $35k for a (euro) ford focus, go ahead. there's a reason why US cars in europe are infinitely better than their domestic counterparts.

i prefer the utility of sedan- powerful and balanced enough for fun in the straights and turns, big enough to comfortably fit 4-5 people and has luggage space. good luck doing all that in the elise 😉

Euro Ford Focus? 😕

The Lotus won't be a daily driver. I'll probably just alternate driving that and riding my bike to work actually. Besides, my wife has a perfectly good 4 door Lexus. 😀

 

[Epic22]

Toyota's main problem seems to be the new Tundra. Reports claim that buyers experience the tail gate to crack and break easily

 

[FeuerFrei]

2008 10Best cars

Looks like these ratings are based largely on fun factor.

The invite list works as follows: Last year?s winners are automatically invited back, as well as other all-new or significantly upgraded machinery for 2008. Each car gets only one shot at making our 10Best list, but many stay on it for years. This year, all cars had to have a base price no higher than $72,000, which is 2.5 times the average new-vehicle transaction price as of August 2007. Eligible cars must be on sale no later than January 2008, and the manufacturer must, of course, deliver an example for our evaluations.

According to the 10 Best Nominee list in my issue of C&D, the only Toyota products evaluated for this year's awards were the Scion xB and xD.
The Lexus GS460 was nominated, but wasn't available for evaluation.

50 cars were nominated but I'm not going to type out the list.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
2008 10Best cars

Looks like these ratings are based largely on fun factor.,

The invite list works as follows: Last year?s winners are automatically invited back, as well as other all-new or significantly upgraded machinery for 2008. Each car gets only one shot at making our 10Best list, but many stay on it for years. This year, all cars had to have a base price no higher than $72,000, which is 2.5 times the average new-vehicle transaction price as of August 2007. Eligible cars must be on sale no later than January 2008, and the manufacturer must, of course, deliver an example for our evaluations.

According to the 10 Best Nominee list in my issue of C&D, the only Toyota products evaluated for this year's awards were the Scion xB and xD.
The Lexus GS460 was nominated, but wasn't available for evaluation.

50 cars were nominated but I'm not going to type out the list.

Agreed, I don't know why in the hell Toyota keeps killing off the MR2

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I liked Jeremy Clarkson's - The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Pretty much sums up my feelings about American cars. It really is amazing how badly American cars stack up against a decent European car. They've been horrible for decades and there is really no good reason for me to ever consider buying an American car. I've rented a few late model American cars recently and have been quite unimpressed by them.

My next car will be a Lotus Elise. America just doesn't make a car that compares.

You have to compare apples to apples, if you used to driving a car that cost 15K more
than a domestic then your not. Chevy has to make these affordable to average joe who
cannot afford 35K for a mid-size sedan.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Holy crap!!! Big check??? Hell, might've been shares in company stock!!!


Malibu??? WTF?????

Where's the Aura?? Remember that was the next big thing for GM?

What about the "all new, revolutionary, Sebring?" Chrysler not invited to play???


BouZouki, you got it right on the money!!! Somebody threw on a VERY cushy pair of knee pads & licked their chops BIG time before the givin' the BJ they gave to C&D.

Show me that Malibu, POS, in about 5 years & show me the same year Camry in the same time frame.

😕

Aura = Opel rebadged. Besides compared to the show car the production ones aren't great

 

[imported_Shivetya]

l

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
I'm not even going to comment in this thread because of the biased against GM idiots who always argue quality which simply is not true anymore....

I could name like 50 things why I'd take the malibu over the accord

1. I won't lie, it i made in America, I like to support or manufacturers (keep in mind though I would never actually buy a malibu or accord)
2. It looks different then the rest of the japanese econoboxes out there
3. The interior is about 10x better than the accords...FFS just look at pictures japanese fanboys, and C&D, MT, and Automobile said the doors shut with a thumb and everything it tight fitting.

Those are just some of the things...


Oh wait oops..I should have never commented...ahh no big deal. Japanese fanboys don't even both trying to argue with me because you are wrong, and I am right. Why? Because it is my opinion, not fact...and neither of us have probably driven either car.

And I won't be clicking this thread again because I don't want to hear the japanese fanboy whining. 😛

Also you guys are idiots to think C/D gets paid off by companies...one they make enough money, 2 the fall out would be neverending if it was found out...3 yes they do do crap to get reviews ahead of others....4 the malibu is better than the accord so HAH 😉

1. Accords are produced in East Liberty (and yes even Mexico)
2. Malibu is dreadfully boring looking inside and out
3. That thump is simple placement of a bumper (you should see the science behind sound)

Oh, five years later the loss on the Malibu will be far worse. I won't drive the Malibu but have driven the Accord (I didn't buy one - I actually own an 07 Civic).

Something fishy is happening at some magazines, the Malibu, just like the Aura before it, are getting some incredible good nods (don't read actual review - just highlights or rewards - actual reviews seem to say opposite of summary) yet the production models suck. I had big hopes for the new Saturns but they were nothing like what was promised.

Besides, GM had to import Opels to get their quality up? Sheesh

 

[imported_Truenofan]

two honda's and two mazda's. gotta love the miata/mx-5. its got almost no electronics to go wrong.

 

[ayabe]

List looks pretty much like it always does, except for the Malibu.

I lost a lot of respect for C&D when they bashed Subaru for only offering a 5 speed in the WRX recently, but continued to slurp the base EVOX...with a 5 speed.

They also compared the boxer burble to an Evinrude and called it lame.

They're snobs and should stick to their main function as the PR wing of BMW.

 

[FDF12389]

Originally posted by: Mermaidman
From the January issue, in alphabetical order:
BMW 3-series
Cadillac CTS
Corvette
Malibu
Accord
Fit
MX-5
Mazdaspeed 3
Boxster/Cayman
VW GTi

Glad to see GM up there. Personally, I like C&D more than the other car rags, so I give this list more cred. Flame away!

Which alphabet are you ordering these in?

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: FDF12389

Originally posted by: Mermaidman
From the January issue, in alphabetical order:
BMW 3-series
Cadillac CTS
Corvette
Malibu
Accord
Fit
MX-5
Mazdaspeed 3
Boxster/Cayman
VW GTi

Glad to see GM up there. Personally, I like C&D more than the other car rags, so I give this list more cred. Flame away!

Which alphabet are you ordering these in?

Add the Manufacturer to each name and it's in alphabetical order.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I liked Jeremy Clarkson's - The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Pretty much sums up my feelings about American cars. It really is amazing how badly American cars stack up against a decent European car. They've been horrible for decades and there is really no good reason for me to ever consider buying an American car. I've rented a few late model American cars recently and have been quite unimpressed by them.

My next car will be a Lotus Elise. America just doesn't make a car that compares.

You have to compare apples to apples, if you used to driving a car that cost 15K more
than a domestic then your not. Chevy has to make these affordable to average joe who
cannot afford 35K for a mid-size sedan.

I'd still take a Nissan Altima over a Chevy Malibu. Hell, I'd take my 5 year old Maxima over a new Malibu.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Holy crap!!! Big check??? Hell, might've been shares in company stock!!!


Malibu??? WTF?????

Where's the Aura?? Remember that was the next big thing for GM?

What about the "all new, revolutionary, Sebring?" Chrysler not invited to play???


BouZouki, you got it right on the money!!! Somebody threw on a VERY cushy pair of knee pads & licked their chops BIG time before the givin' the BJ they gave to C&D.

Show me that Malibu, POS, in about 5 years & show me the same year Camry in the same time frame.

😕

Aura = Opel rebadged. Besides compared to the show car the production ones aren't great

Bullshit, domestics have caught up to imports in fit and finish weather import fanboys
like it or not. I find it amazing that they (fanboys) cannot accept a decent car can be
built by a big 3, why don't you take your Asian-loving Euro-licking asses out of the US
and move over there, we won't miss your snotty asses for one second.

 

[Ktulu]

The domestic hatred is strong in this thread. For those that are trashing the Malibu, have you actually taken the time to test drive one yet and inspect it? I'm guessing it would be a resounding NO.

BTW, I'm absolutely amazed that a company like GM, who is hemorrhaging money and dealing with problems that are no where near what it's competition has to deal with, has not given up and is still making competitive cars and in some cases class leading. Yet the anti-domestic fanboys can't get their heads out of there asses to realize this. And another thing. Isn't it strange that a company like Hyundai that used to put out the worst pieces of this known to man has gotten the respect of these anti-domestic fanboys after putting out a few good products. So if Hyundai can do it why can't GM? Are domestics really hated that much that Hyundai has surpassed them in public perception?

/weak rant

 

[kevman]

I don't care what they say, I will take a G35 Sport over a CTS Any day of the week. Good luck to anyone who will go out and buy GM based on that list.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Holy crap!!! Big check??? Hell, might've been shares in company stock!!!


Malibu??? WTF?????

Where's the Aura?? Remember that was the next big thing for GM?

What about the "all new, revolutionary, Sebring?" Chrysler not invited to play???


BouZouki, you got it right on the money!!! Somebody threw on a VERY cushy pair of knee pads & licked their chops BIG time before the givin' the BJ they gave to C&D.

Show me that Malibu, POS, in about 5 years & show me the same year Camry in the same time frame.

😕

Aura = Opel rebadged. Besides compared to the show car the production ones aren't great

Bullshit, domestics have caught up to imports in fit and finish weather import fanboys
like it or not. I find it amazing that they (fanboys) cannot accept a decent car can be
built by a big 3, why don't you take your Asian-loving Euro-licking asses out of the US
and move over there, we won't miss your snotty asses for one second.

:| I was born and raised here as were my ancestors. It's a free country, I can buy whatever I want and I can also complain about cars that I don't like. Don't like it? You move. 😛

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Ktulu
The domestic hatred is strong in this thread. For those that are trashing the Malibu, have you actually taken the time to test drive one yet and inspect it? I'm guessing it would be a resounding NO.

BTW, I'm absolutely amazed that a company like GM, who is hemorrhaging money and dealing with problems that are no where near what it's competition has to deal with, has not given up and is still making competitive cars and in some cases class leading. Yet the anti-domestic fanboys can't get their heads out of there asses to realize this. And another thing. Isn't it strange that a company like Hyundai that used to put out the worst pieces of this known to man has gotten the respect of these anti-domestic fanboys after putting out a few good products. So if Hyundai can do it why can't GM? Are domestics really hated that much that Hyundai has surpassed them in public perception?

/weak rant

I don't have respect for Hyundai either and wouldn't buy their garbage.

I agree with you that this is a weak rant though. 😛

 

[Vetterin]

I think that 6 of those 10 could also make the top 10 most UNRELIABLE car list.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Holy crap!!! Big check??? Hell, might've been shares in company stock!!!


Malibu??? WTF?????

Where's the Aura?? Remember that was the next big thing for GM?

What about the "all new, revolutionary, Sebring?" Chrysler not invited to play???


BouZouki, you got it right on the money!!! Somebody threw on a VERY cushy pair of knee pads & licked their chops BIG time before the givin' the BJ they gave to C&D.

Show me that Malibu, POS, in about 5 years & show me the same year Camry in the same time frame.

😕

Aura = Opel rebadged. Besides compared to the show car the production ones aren't great

Bullshit, domestics have caught up to imports in fit and finish weather import fanboys
like it or not. I find it amazing that they (fanboys) cannot accept a decent car can be
built by a big 3, why don't you take your Asian-loving Euro-licking asses out of the US
and move over there, we won't miss your snotty asses for one second.

Go fuck yourself. I was born and raised here as were my ancestors. It's a free country, I can buy whatever I want and I can also complain about cars that I don't like. Don't like it? You move. 😛

Great! keep it up Mr. E-penis, maybe the next time the Mod's ban you it will be
for good!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Holy crap!!! Big check??? Hell, might've been shares in company stock!!!


Malibu??? WTF?????

Where's the Aura?? Remember that was the next big thing for GM?

What about the "all new, revolutionary, Sebring?" Chrysler not invited to play???


BouZouki, you got it right on the money!!! Somebody threw on a VERY cushy pair of knee pads & licked their chops BIG time before the givin' the BJ they gave to C&D.

Show me that Malibu, POS, in about 5 years & show me the same year Camry in the same time frame.

😕

Aura = Opel rebadged. Besides compared to the show car the production ones aren't great

Bullshit, domestics have caught up to imports in fit and finish weather import fanboys
like it or not. I find it amazing that they (fanboys) cannot accept a decent car can be
built by a big 3, why don't you take your Asian-loving Euro-licking asses out of the US
and move over there, we won't miss your snotty asses for one second.

:| I was born and raised here as were my ancestors. It's a free country, I can buy whatever I want and I can also complain about cars that I don't like. Don't like it? You move. 😛

Great! keep it up Mr. E-penis, maybe the next time the Mod's ban you it will be
for good!

Hey, you started this e-peen fight. I'll edit my post though.

BTW-I didn't mean that as a personal attack but your post did piss me off.

I'm sure you'll go complain to the mods now. Off you go.

 

[BUTCH1]

Hey, you started this e-peen fight. I'll edit my post though.

BTW-I didn't mean that as a personal attack but your post did piss me off.

I'm sure you'll go complain to the mods now. Off you go.

No, I wont complain to the Mod's and yes, I started it but geez, you would think
some good news coming out of Detroit for a change might make fellow Americans
have some pride for once. I wouldn't expect anyone to plunk down hard-earned money
for a POS but I'm hoping GM does get it turned around and keep jobs here in the
USA where they are badly needed..

 

[jjanders]

Most "foreign" automakers have plants here in the US and employ lots of US workers.

Maybe it's a bit different since the money ultimately goes back to the manufacturer (the terrible foreigners), but still....

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Hey, you started this e-peen fight. I'll edit my post though.

BTW-I didn't mean that as a personal attack but your post did piss me off.

I'm sure you'll go complain to the mods now. Off you go.

No, I wont complain to the Mod's and yes, I started it but geez, you would think
some good news coming out of Detroit for a change might make fellow Americans
have some pride for once. I wouldn't expect anyone to plunk down hard-earned money
for a POS but I'm hoping GM does get it turned around and keep jobs here in the
USA where they are badly needed..

I agree with you there. I'd like to see better quality out of American cars but I haven't seen it yet. There are a few American cars I wouldn't mind owning but they are few and far between.

And to blur things even more, many GM cars are now made in Canada and Mexico while a number of Japanese and German cars are made in the US.

I apologize for my earlier comment to you, it was uncalled for. :beer:

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Hey, you started this e-peen fight. I'll edit my post though.

BTW-I didn't mean that as a personal attack but your post did piss me off.

I'm sure you'll go complain to the mods now. Off you go.

No, I wont complain to the Mod's and yes, I started it but geez, you would think
some good news coming out of Detroit for a change might make fellow Americans
have some pride for once. I wouldn't expect anyone to plunk down hard-earned money
for a POS but I'm hoping GM does get it turned around and keep jobs here in the
USA where they are badly needed..

I agree with you there. I'd like to see better quality out of American cars but I haven't seen it yet. There are a few American cars I wouldn't mind owning but they are few and far between.

And to blur things even more, many GM cars are now made in Canada and Mexico while a number of Japanese and German cars are made in the US.

I apologize for my earlier comment to you, it was uncalled for. :beer:

This is very true, but when the ATOT fanboys bring this up they make it sound as if the majority of Detroits cars are made out of country and that the foreign automakers do more for this country. The reality is the Big 3 still employee and make way more cars here in the US than than all the foreign automakers combined. So please stop bringing this point up, it's irrelevant.