Capitalism is so broken it can’t be fixed

[DucatiMonster696]

It's simply one of the strongest pieces of rhetoric that the right cling to: if you're not for free-market capitalism, then you must be communist/socialist/Marxist. Hanging onto cold-war era finger pointing, like it has any meaning in present day.

Let me know when exactly we have had a free market where government doesn't come in and bail out the losers who should of lost but due to political reasons they are kept alive like zombies to go about the world continually spreading their maligned disease of failure.

Or a free market in which meaningless regulations are not lobbied for by politicians in the pockets of union leadership or major corporate interests. Of which said legislation does not even add any degree of safety or addresses any relevant issues other than stifling competition in the market place itself.

When that materializes you can talk about a "Free Market". Right now though as it stands our economy and market place has become so distorted via layers of manipulation and pain aversion toward failure that you cannot justifiably call it a "Free Market" wherein competition is allowed to reign and winners and losers are dictated by market forces and not extraneous forces of government and their lobbyists.

 

[OverVolt]

I read an interesting article that said China has a habit of over-producing items even when they aren't needed, historically.

Such as the great wall of China, once they embark on a construction or manufacturing project they just don't know when to stop.

There were several other examples through history. They currently have ghost cities, way too much manufacturing, etc.

Anyway the premise of the article is that China is using the world economy to balance its own economy, since it is of course overproducing tons of "chinese crap" until there is no use for it anymore. The Chinese economy is usually typified by gross overproduction of a few items and shortages of everything else.

Makes sense that since the mechanism of real price discovery is broken in China, they use the world economy to price items and of course dump their excess that they don't need.

 

[Zorkorist]

We haven't been a free market in a long time. We aren't even Capitalist, at this point. We are a shadow of our former selves.

-John

Let me know when exactly we have a had a free market where government doesn't come in and bail out the losers who should of lost but due to political reasons they are kept alive like zombies to about the world continually spreading their maligned disease of failure.

Or a free market in which meaningless regulations are not lobbied for by politicians in the pockets of union leadership or major corporate interests. Of which said legislation does not even add any degree of safety or addresses any relevant issues other than stifling competition in the market place itself.

When that materializes you can talk about a "Free Market". Right now though as it stands our economy and market place has become so distorted via layers of manipulation and pain aversion toward failure that you cannot justifiably call it a "Free Market" wherein competition is allowed to reign and winners and losers are dictated by market forces and not extraneous forces of government and their lobbyists.

 

[IGBT]

I look forward to the fighting in the streets and the breakup of the US. Regional declarations of independence are on the horizon.

 

[Paul98]

Our system is sorely broken and won't be fixed till politicians and the public are willing to have a rational discussion that isn't about protecting the rich.

 

[FalseChristian]

Canada's form of capitalism is the best in the world. We have capitalism with a human face unlike the U.S.

 

[Onceler]

2-23-2013

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/capitalism-is-so-broken-it-cant-be-fixed-2013-02-23?siteid=yhoof2

Capitalism is so broken it can’t be fixed



Saving capitalism will not save America



Washington’s endless political drama has already been transformed by capitalism. So has Wall Street, Corporate America, Big Oil and the entire economy been transformed into a bizarre circus Adam Smith would never recognize. Capitalism is now an out-of-control Frankenstein monster that changed everything. Now it’s “too powerful to change.”

Republicans wrong in thinking the rich create jobs. Democrats wrong because “growth won’t happen if they distribute the wealth of the wealthy to everyone else.” Old ideological rhetoric.

“One of the disturbing facts of history is that so many civilizations collapse. Few people, however, least of all our politicians, realize that” so “many of those civilizations share a sharp curve of decline,” often “a decade or two after it reaches its peak population, wealth and power.”

So why do leaders fail us?

History keeps repeating its lessons over and over through many millennia. But we never learn.

Hopefully after a new black swan shocks us, we’ll all wake up, wise up and do something truly innovative ... like reinstate Glass-Steagall.

What they usually don't tell you is that empires fall from liberal ideas(old as civilization itself and always they are passed on as 'new' ideas.

 

[Onceler]

We haven't been a free market in a long time. We aren't even Capitalist, at this point. We are a shadow of our former selves.

-John

True
Hey Zokorist why didn't you choose a name like Frobozz something?

 

[werepossum]

Enforce the Sherman Anti-Trust act when it comes to banks (big enough such that its failure kills the economy? well then it's to fucking big not to be broken up)... and jail the assholes who caused the 2008 crash... simple idea but the execution of it by politicians bought and paid for by those banks and assholes isn't so simple.

I accept that the bailouts had to happen, but the very corporations judged "too big to be allowed to fail" used the money they were given to buy up smaller competitors distressed by not receiving government largess, thereby becoming even bigger and even more threatening to the economy. Something which must be bailed out because it's "too big to be allowed to fail" should be busted into pieces that aren't "too big to be allowed to fail".

Laughing out loud at the idea that capitalism is so broken it can't be fixed. The only alternative to capitalism is total Marxism or fascism; even then many people must resort to capitalism to survive.

 

[Matt1970]

Canada's form of capitalism is the best in the world. We have capitalism with a human face unlike the U.S.

The state of California is a bigger economy than Canada. You got a better comparison?

 

[werepossum]

The state of California is a bigger economy than Canada. You got a better comparison?

Yes, but California built that economy using capitalism with a robot face. Apparently . . .

 

[piasabird]

Most Corporations are International.

 

[piasabird]

California has more socialism than Canada.

 

[CPA]

Good read

Took all the players name out of the article and left the meat.

Bottom line is put back some regulation.

You know how I can tell you have no idea what this article is driving at?

 

[zephyrprime]

What people don't realize about capitalism is that it only works if it is NOT ALLOWED to reach it's ultimate form. The ultimate form of capitalism is a mega-monopoly that eventually takes over the government. If companies were truly allowed to do whatever they want, what they would do is merge with their competitors so that they would have no competition. Eventually, in such a truly free market system, all companies would merge with each other except for small fry local businesses. This super-monopoly would then have the power to take over the government. The leader of such a company would basically be king. The end point of capitalism is monarchy.

Because the natural tendency of capitalism is total failure if allowed to pursue its ultimate goal, it is perfectly natural that capitalism be broken and needs fixing. In fact, capitalism ALWAYS needs fixing (regulation, nationalization, bustups, etc) to prevent it from reaching its ultimate goal of super-monopoly.

It is only when capitalism is prevented from reaching it's endpoint that capitalism actually works. The prime violation of this principle right now is the Too Big To Fail banks. They are so large that they government has provided them life support despite the fact that they would have gone bankrupt if left to their own devices during the financial crisis.

 

[Pohemi]

Let me know when exactly we have had a free market where government doesn't come in and bail out the losers who should of lost but due to political reasons they are kept alive like zombies to go about the world continually spreading their maligned disease of failure.

I don't believe in taxpayer funded bailouts either. Exactly when it was a "free market"? I couldn't tell you, but it's obviously been a while (100+ years?).

Or a free market in which meaningless regulations are not lobbied for by politicians in the pockets of union leadership or major corporate interests. Of which said legislation does not even add any degree of safety or addresses any relevant issues other than stifling competition in the market place itself.

This is a bit generalized, in that I don't believe that all regulation is pointless and stifling. And of course this lobbying (read: purchasing) of and by politicians comes from both sides of the aisle. There are those trying to get more regulations and control, and those fighting to let the corporations run free. I do think that there is too much smoke and mirrors from both sides, although a balance needs to be found for the market to keep functioning.

When that materializes you can talk about a "Free Market". Right now though as it stands our economy and market place has become so distorted via layers of manipulation and pain aversion toward failure that you cannot justifiably call it a "Free Market" wherein competition is allowed to reign and winners and losers are dictated by market forces and not extraneous forces of government and their lobbyists.

The intention of my first post was made facetiously, to demonstrate the ridiculousness of the term, from either side's view. :sneaky:

 

[sm625]

Washington has nothing to do with capitalism. What we have is a corporatist fascist state that is run by the same group of elites that happen to own the media which fools everyone into believing we have democracy and capitalism. We have no such things. Individuals may pull the lever in the voting both but it is the corporatist elite who:
a) select ALL the candidates
b) select ALL the mainstream debate talking points in support of those candidates

 

[Ausm]

HAH, you mean the corporations that reside in the country it rules over?

I am thinking he making the point that these Companies make their profits here but shelter their cash in other Countries for Tax avoidance.