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Capital Gains taxes should be higher

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karmypolitics said:
Why the all or nothing scenarios? Here is something comparable to what you're saying.

Because the progressive tax rate increases the more income you make, people purposely decide to limit their working hours to 30 hours a week so as to not trigger more taxes on income.
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No, no they don't. You don't understand taxes at all if you really believe that. The only way that comes into play is if you have obama's ideas put into place to punish those that make more and eliminate what few deductions they have left.

You are seriously trolling at this point. Go make 250k a year and you'll change your tune.

I caught you in a ninja edit. You're trolling hard.
 
Get rid of capital gains taxes, tax capital gains a regular income, and abolish corporate taxes as well. Stop taxing earned income at a higher rate than un-earned income.


Edit: and re-instate the estate tax.
 
spidey07 said:
Find another investment outside of stock without such a high tax penalty. I'm thinking real estate, I'll help drive the cost of housing even higher. Thanks to savior Bush, cap gains on real estate isn't taxed as CG.
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Now what would happen when people like you go out of the stock market, stock prices crash and then foreign investors - not subject to the same tax laws - move in and buy US businesses?
 
spidey07 said:
No, no they don't. You don't understand taxes at all if you really believe that. The only way that comes into play is if you have obama's ideas put into place to punish those that make more and eliminate what few deductions they have left.

You are seriously trolling at this point. Go make 250k a year and you'll change your tune.

I caught you in a ninja edit. You're trolling hard.
Click to expand...

that was a parody. glad you noticed.
 
spidey07 said:
No, no they don't. You don't understand taxes at all if you really believe that. The only way that comes into play is if you have obama's ideas put into place to punish those that make more and eliminate what few deductions they have left.

You are seriously trolling at this point. Go make 250k a year and you'll change your tune.

I caught you in a ninja edit. You're trolling hard.
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I've never ever seen someone with 57k posts on a forum. most post counts are like 10k at most...
 
How about changing LT capital gains to holding for five or ten years and anything held a shorter period being an ordinary income item (Including real property) but making the LT capital gain rate 15% or less?
 
From wikipedia, short-term capital gains are taxed as normal income -- however, long-term has a flat 15% for the most part.

But long-term is defined as held for longer than one (1) year.

That's pithy, frankly. Long-term should be defined as five years or more, something along those liness
 
BoberFett said:
Craig is an idiot. Nothing new there of course. I'll try to explain it so his neanderthal progressive brain can understand...

If a worker earns $100 and spends it, he has the utility of it immediately. He can buy 50 loaves of bread.

If another worker earns $100 and invests it, he won't have the utility of either the principal or earnings until he sells his investment. So he buys stock in a company and holds it for 30 years, selling it for $200 when the value of the dollar has been cut in half. He then owes taxes on $100, so he only ends up with $180 dollars. Since the dollar is worth half what it was, he can only buy 45 loaves of bread. Long term investment means a measurable decrease in utility.

His best option is to hope that the CEO of the company runs up the value of the stock so quickly by slashing and burning that he can quickly sell while the dollar he spent is still worth something.

Way to destroy all long term thinking and investment in anything, dumbass.

Fail234
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The problem is that if you invest $100 and it becomes worth $200, you now have to pay tax on the $100 increase either out of your pocket or by selling some of the stock. Keeping Capital Gains Tax low helps reduce the need for people to have to sell their stock to pay the tax.
 
Matt1970 said:
The problem is that if you invest $100 and it becomes worth $200, you now have to pay tax on the $100 increase either out of your pocket or by selling some of the stock. Keeping Capital Gains Tax low helps reduce the need for people to have to sell their stock to pay the tax.
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You pay the tax when you sell the stock, not before.
 
Matt1970 said:
The problem is that if you invest $100 and it becomes worth $200, you now have to pay tax on the $100 increase either out of your pocket or by selling some of the stock. Keeping Capital Gains Tax low helps reduce the need for people to have to sell their stock to pay the tax.
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completely wrong. you only pay the tax on a sale.
 
karmypolitics said:
Capital gains should be taxed as ordinary income IMO. For the ultra-rich, they effectively receive a 15% tax rate on their millions, while a professional who has undergone years of schooling will be paying 33% or 36% depending on Bush or Obama on their six figure income.

Mitt Romney proposes eliminating capital gains for people making under 200k/yr. That would result in all of the CEO's of major companies receiving a 150k salary and generous stock options.

Also, the "carried interest" loophole relies on the 15% tax rate for capital gains.

Instead of fighting over the Bush tax cuts, why don't Democrats simply agree with Republicans that they should be kept in place, while raising capital gains taxes to parity?
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I agree capital gains should be eliminated and just taxed at ordinary gain, in fact taxes in general should be increased.

But I would like to point out generous stock option are not taxed at capital gains, but ordinary gains. In order to qualify for capital gains, stock option must be issued at the current market price.

Lets say the current stock price is $20, a company gives a CEO the right to buy the stock at $10, which the CEO uses right away, and buys 10000 worth of stock. Then he has to pay ordinary gains immediately on $100,000 the difference between the market value and the exercise price.
 
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karmypolitics said:
"double taxation" seems like a weird way to go. I mean, you could say that a shopkeeper suffered from double taxation because the amount of consumer money available to him is taxed first by the income tax, meaning that any revenue and then resulting profit will have been "double taxed"
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or you could just get rid of business tax and have an income tax that literally is a tax on all money earned and make it flat across the board. then no one gets double taxed, everyone is taxed equally and those who benefit the most from businesses will be paying shit tons of loot to the gubments so many want to take care of them.
 
We also need to get rid of the exemption on estate tax, or lower it to 100K or so.

I also support some kind of excessive salary tax, one that taxes a company when it gives too much compensation to one employee. Like a CEO who makes 10 million a year, while most of the workers are on minimum wage.


IMHO it is a crime against all of humanity that we have people dying with billions, while women and children are dying of starvation, exposure, and curable diseases in the world.
 
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DCal430 said:
I agree capital gains should be eliminated and just taxed at ordinary gain, in fact taxes in general should be increased.

But I would like to point out generous stock option are not taxed at capital gains, but ordinary gains. In order to qualify for capital gains, stock option must be issued at the current market price.

Lets say the current stock price is $20, a company gives a CEO the right to buy the stock at $10, which the CEO uses right away, and buys 10000 worth of stock. Then he has to pay ordinary gains immediately on $100,000 the difference between the market value and the exercise price.
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Well, most stock options aren't immediately sellable, but "vest" over the course of several years.

But you know it is very very easy to get the 15% flat rate for capital gains. Just hold onto the investment for longer than 1 year. That is it.

"Short-term" capital gains really should encompass the first five to ten years IMO.
 
The first $X of capital gains should be at 15%. There is a legitimate argument that retires that are not ultra-rich owuld benefit. But beyond some threshold, it should be normal income.

EDIT: Wow, are people really that ignorant towards how taxes work. The issue is dividends people.
 
SamurAchzar said:
So was Steve Jobs, by your definition, a criminal?
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I wasn't saying individuals are guilty of legal crimes. But that there is a great injustice in all of this, a terrible shame on humanity it self.

FYI Steve Jobs wasn't a good person. He was a greedy business man, who cared little for the common person.
 
I still have not seen an answer to my question - fair to who and measured against what?

Also, the world has been a cruel place and inequality always has existed. Every Utopian society I have ever heard of has failed. Some people work harder, some are smarter, some are luckier. Do you want the receptionist to make as much as the CEO? Isn't that "fair"? They both work for the company, after all.

Michael
 
"I also support some kind of excessive salary tax, one that taxes a company when it gives too much compensation to one employee. Like a CEO who makes 10 million a year, while most of the workers are on minimum wage."

This already exists in the USA. Salaries over a certain amount are not tax deductible by the company. It actually doesn't matter if the other workers are working at minimum wage.

""double taxation" seems like a weird way to go. I mean, you could say that a shopkeeper suffered from double taxation because the amount of consumer money available to him is taxed first by the income tax, meaning that any revenue and then resulting profit will have been "double taxed""

This is sort of right and sort of wrong. Yes, the money I have to spend at a shop is net of the tax I paid in earning the income. However, my salary was a deductible expense for the company that paid it to me, so the earning of it was only taxed once.

I then can take what money I have (or can borrow) and buy something with it. But that is another completely different transaction. Embedded into that transaction is another entirely different series and set of taxes as the selling price includes all the taxes piad by the entire process to get the good to the store for me to buy. The list of taxes and fees is quick large. Consider - taxes on the gas to drive to the store, all the income taxes paid by the complete supply chain to deliver the good to the store, all of the taxes on salaries paid to the employees, maybe customs fees and duties, property taxes on the store building, taxes on all the utilities being consumed, etc.

My God, I think I'll just pull my covers over my head and never venture into another store again at the thought of all those taxes.

Michael
 
DCal430 said:
I wasn't saying individuals are guilty of legal crimes. But that there is a great injustice in all of this, a terrible shame on humanity it self.

FYI Steve Jobs wasn't a good person. He was a greedy business man, who cared little for the common person.
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Steve Jobs actually cancelled some community programs when he got to Apple, as far as I know. It is said (by Woz as well) he was deeply influenced by Ayn Rand ideas.

Yet Steve Jobs left us a much better world. He did more for any of us than what we did for him. The personal wealth he has accumulated is in orders of magnitude smaller than his day to day impact on humanity. That applies to the Google guys as well.
Point being, if he wasn't greedy, and retired, the world would have been a worse place.

Greed is good. Greed is the prime, maybe only human motivator. Greed makes great people do great things that ordinary, non-greedy people can later enjoy in their insignificant lives.
 
I think long term capital gains tax rates should go lower for every year you hold a stock and that your dividends should also be taxed at this rate. We need more people to think about long term investments instead of trying to squeeze all the profits out of this quarter and fucking yourself in the future.

On the other hand, it would just be alot easier if every dollar you earned was taxed at the same rate with no exemptions, deductions, etc. Would be nice to see a 1 page tax code. This is wishful thinking though.
 
spidey07 said:
I hope you realize that your six figure professional will have signicant capital gains if he is smart. 20 percent would be normal.

Why do you want to tax my dividends as normal income? If you do I will simply not reinvest those dividends.
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This is such a crock of shit strawman argument.

What are you going to do with it then? Are you going to just sit on it? Are you going to leave it in a bank account that only brings you a maximum of 3% return? Are you going to spend it frivilously without regard for having a retirement plan?

I'm sure that you and everyone else would just throw your hands up and say "Well, they're finally taxing us. No need to ever invest again."

It's a complete and utter horseshit argument and an empty threat made only to keep the taxes down on the uber rich's main source of income..
 
RightIsWrong said:
This is such a crock of shit strawman argument.

What are you going to do with it then? Are you going to just sit on it? Are you going to leave it in a bank account that only brings you a maximum of 3% return? Are you going to spend it frivilously without regard for having a retirement plan?

I'm sure that you and everyone else would just throw your hands up and say "Well, they're finally taxing us. No need to ever invest again."

It's a complete and utter horseshit argument and an empty threat made only to keep the taxes down on the uber rich's main source of income..
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There are other means of investing capital other than stock. One always understands the tax implications and will seek the best overall return inclusive of tax consequences. It's not strawman at all, it's the truth and is exactly what happens when capital gains tax is too high.

I already posted what I'd do, real estate is looking really good and where a lot of folks are putting their money.

Do you not have any significant CG or dividends? I do, and I know exactly what I'd do if LTCG were like STCG - there's no incentive at all. I would immediately stop dividend reinvestment as the first step as would everybody else.
 
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