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Can't QUITE get the digital signal, what antenna do I get?

F

Felecha

Golden Member
I'm a software engineer, digital tv is not my area. I hardly watch TV at all, we have cable internet but not TV. But I occasionally like to tune in to the PBS station in our area. It's about 50 miles, and with the old rabbit ears it was kinda fuzzy but it worked.

Been looking forward to the digital transition, got my DC box, an Insignia from BestBuy, it works for the ABC station about 40 miles away. Yesterday the PBS station went digital and I came home to try it and rats! It doesnt come in at all.

I talked with the rep at the station, who explained to me that the digital signal is not like analog - it doesnt get weaker and fuzzier with distance, it reaches a point where it is all gone - like falling off a cliff. You either get it or dont.

Using the menu for the DCB, I was in there scanning and set it to the channel and could see the yellow bar on the signal strength indicator - it was down in the Bad sector, but at least there was something visible there, and kinda moving back and forth. At other channels there was no yellow bar at all.

So I figure I AM picking something up but just not enough to get it to connect.

Only hope, then, is .... a stronger antenna? The rabbit ears is a 20 year old RCA. When I bought the DCB I also got an antenna, figuring I might as well get something new. I got an RCA ANT1450, I think it was. Came home and tried it and was interested to see that it gave exactly the same picture as the old rabbit ears. Or the other way around - the rabbit ears seemed to be as good as the new one. So I took it back and got my $50 back.

But maybe that one WAS stronger? Both could get the ABC station, and if the thing is that you either get it or not, all or none, then it only APPEARED that the rabbit ears were as good?

So if I want to try again for an antenna, I would like to do it just once. We are WAY out in the country, which is why the distance for TV is large AND the distance to shopping land is large too. I'm thinking I should get something like an outdoor antenna but only set it up in the attic. We really dont want an antenna on the roof, it would ruin the beautiful old country house here.

So

1. Am i right that antennas DO vary in their strength of receiving

2. What is a recommendation for type, brand, etc?

Thanks anyone

F
 
Check that all your channels are UHF, if so get this:

EDIT: Seems what I was going to recommend is discontinued...

You can mount it in your attic (I do) but I understand that it will result in a 50% signal loss.
 
I dunno if this works or not but it might. Since your TV is probably already set in 'antenna' mode, then hook it up to a cable outlet. I know you don't have cable but I did this with a TV once and was able to get the basic OTA channels. I've heard of some others doing this, but not sure if it works exactly if you aren't paying for cable.
 
Originally posted by: DEMO24
I dunno if this works or not but it might. Since your TV is probably already set in 'antenna' mode, then hook it up to a cable outlet. I know you don't have cable but I did this with a TV once and was able to get the basic OTA channels. I've heard of some others doing this, but not sure if it works exactly if you aren't paying for cable.
Click to expand...

That's called unencrypted QAM service. I believe in the US the local cable companies are required to broadcast the channels that are available in the area over the air for free on their cable network.

Unfortunately for me, Canada doesn't require this 🙁

If you want a good recommendation on an antenna, head over to digitalhome.ca and browse their OTA section in the forum. Someone there will recommend something for you. They have people there with all sorts of setups, from rabbit ears, to $100 antennas, to build-it-yourselfers, all the way up to guys who've spent a few grand on their antenna systems.
 
You don't have a profile setup, so it's hard to make recommendations without knowing how your stations are broadcasting. Go to antennaweb.org to get an idea of what frequency most of your stations use. Once you have a list of the channels you can receive, click on a channel's Antenna Type to get an idea of the type of antenna you need.

You mention that the PBS station that you want to receive is about 50 miles away from you, I'm going to guess that you will need a large Directional Antenna to have any chance at getting that station. The Winegard HD8200U is a good one, and goes for about $125.

The Channel Master CM-3671 is a very good antenna, and will run you about $120.

You may also need a pre-amp.

 
Lots of help, thanks

Sorry I should have specified - I am in Sanbornton NH, midstate more or less. We have never got anything but WMUR in Manchester (ABC) and NHPTV (PBS) in Durham.

I guess it's VHF - I found this on their FAQ
Ensure that you have the right type of antenna for the channel you are trying to watch:
VHF antenna picks up channels 2 - 13
UHF antenna picks up channels 14 - 83

I looked at antennaweb, learned that there is a PBS in Burlington VT only 40 miles out, which is channel 41 so that would be UHF

I will ask my cable company today about the free OTA - I take it that is Over The Air?

OK, wish me luck
 
Well, the cable company never heard of offering free access to OTA stations

And looking again at antennaweb, it's pretty odd - they are correct that Manchester is 37 miles, but ... Burlington is more like 140, not 40 miles.

Hmmmmm.

Anyway, NHPTV is channel 11 here so I am looking at VHF. That will inform my choice?

thanks
 
and since I am really interested in only the 2 channels and they are both in the same direction, is directional an aspect of this? I see ads for directional antennas. I know the one I bought earlier was just a flat square plastic box that I was told would work in any direction.
 
The antenna you bought is multi directional, and that won't work for you. Directional antennas have longer range, and that's what you need. With a large directional, you might have a shot at getting Boston channels.

As far as cable goes, if they offer Hd channels, then you have a shot of getting them. Unplug the power from your cable modem,
and remove the cable line from it, and connect it to your new set top box. Then have the box scan for channels. You might get lucky.

 
Take what that cable rep said with a grain of salt. As you appear to have cable Internet, and not tv, she told you that because she doesn't want you hooking the line to your tv. That's because if you do, you will have tv. Try it, and see.
 
Muadib

You are saying that since there is only one cable coming into the house, anything from metrocast is all on that one cable. Connected to the modem, it still carries tv. hook it to the tv and it will show tv and very little internet content. Right?

Actually there is a splitter at the end of the incoming cable. Whatever you call it, a little square gizmo an inch and a half square more or less. 3 stubs on it. One is connected to the incoming, and one has a cable to the modem. I expect I can plug a cable on the third open stub (I know its not a stub, just the name is escaping me) and run it to the tv it will do what you are saying.

OK, worth a try.

 
Yes, that is what Im saying. I also use cable for my ISP. When I first got it, the price was the same whether you got basic tv with it or not. That was because many people were just getting it for Internet, but were using it for both. Since fios came to the area, they lowered it to the discounted price.
 
good. It should be doable to just try it. I said at first we dont want an antenna on the lovely old house. It's actually only 10 years old but we really put effort into making it a true replica, almost, of a house as it would look in central NH 200 years ago. We had someone compliment us on the beautiful restoration once.

Anyway, the house was wired for coax, just never used yet. So I should be able to hook the open end of the cable going to the living room, onto the open <stub> on the splitter, and the wall plug will be live.

I will give it a try

stub is not the word - connector? outlet?

thanks
 
Well the cable company probably doesn't like to display this fact as it would mean you could get some channels with out signing up for one of their 'packages'. It's not illegal and since you have the cable hooked up for your internet you aren't going to do anything wrong either. You can probably get PBS.
 
DEMO24 - how do you see it as not illegal? Well, legal/illegal is not maybe the thing, but its kinda like if I had some way to look in on a movie theater and see it for free through a vent hole I found, something like that. I know, it's just a bunch of electrical squiggles in a wire and I'm not taking something out of their stock of goods to sell, but I have squirmed about it since my last post and unless there is some aspect here that I am not seeing, I think I will not do it. It feels kind of off.

Thanks all

F
 
I must side with DEMO24 on this. If your cable company has a problem with it, then they would have done something about it. They could have done like my company did, or they could block the channels.

I expect they haven't though, because the number of people with just internet in your area, has got to be low.
 
Not to get into a long debate over it, but I am curious about silverpig's remark:

I believe in the US the local cable companies are required to broadcast the channels that are available in the area over the air for free on their cable network.
Click to expand...

I googled around a bit and evidently there is a "must-carry" law that sounds a little like that but appears to me to be not quite that. As I read it, cable companies must carry local OTA broadcasting stations, or at least there is some requirement as to what they must offer in the way of local stations. But it seems to mean they must OFFER it in their lineup, not that they must offer it for FREE. And I saw one or two mentions that the OTA that they add to their lineup must be unencrypted.
 
It is illegal to 'take' the television signal from your broadband connection.

You are correct that local TV must be offered in the basic cable package.

Not only will placing an antenna in your attic reduce signal strength it may also introduce 'multipath' (where the signal bounces around) signal problems.

Your best chance remains a conventional outdoor antenna.
 
Originally posted by: Felecha
Not to get into a long debate over it, but I am curious about silverpig's remark:

I believe in the US the local cable companies are required to broadcast the channels that are available in the area over the air for free on their cable network.
Click to expand...

I googled around a bit and evidently there is a "must-carry" law that sounds a little like that but appears to me to be not quite that. As I read it, cable companies must carry local OTA broadcasting stations, or at least there is some requirement as to what they must offer in the way of local stations. But it seems to mean they must OFFER it in their lineup, not that they must offer it for FREE. And I saw one or two mentions that the OTA that they add to their lineup must be unencrypted.
Click to expand...

"must carry" station have to be a part of the basic cable package. "negotiated re-transmit" (IIRC) are the other part of the locals, they are as well.

Double check your last bill, as a broadband subscriber you might see a free line item for basic cable. [local stations, shopping channels, and a few God channels]

In my neck of the woods, the cable company provides basic cable as a free add-on to the broadband only subscribers to increase their advertising rate. Here, it's completely legal.
This is with one of the big cable companies; it is not a rare policy.
 
I don't see it as illegal because these are channels they are suppose to provide. Now you're not paying for cable TV and it's not like you went out and hacked the box to get all 60+ channels. You simply plugged in and there are channels there. You pay to have that cable signal activated for your internet, with that I believe you generally get those OTA channels. Now if you did not have cable internet I would never have suggested this and you probably wouldn't have a cable signal at all in the first place. You aren't stealing cable as you aren't getting anything more than your local OTA broadcast channels.

 
I agree with you. It is common for basic cable to be explicitly legal to receive as a broadband customer.

Now, if you plug your TV up and find that you get free HBO, 'don't ask don't tell' might be a good idea. It's their fault for sending it. You could be liable if they get in a bad mood.
 
Well, I guess I DID kick off a debate

My bill says nothing about basic cable, just "Internet Service"

But it could be said that I pay them my monthly fee and whatever they send is mine ....

I dunno, it still feels squirmy.

Anyway, thanks all for your input.
 
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: Muadib
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
It is illegal to 'take' the television signal from your broadband connection.
Click to expand...

Please show me one link proving your claim.
Click to expand...

I don't have to.

Read your billing statement and the company TOS.
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that, as I just paid it today. Nope, not there.:laugh:
As far as the TOS goes, it's not on the one that I got when I signed up 5 or so years ago. If they've changed it, then I wasn't notified.
 
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