Can't decide whether to fix or buy!

[themisfit610]

Hey folks,

So I've got a 97 Camry 2.2L which has served me faithfully for the past 5 years. It's had no major problems until very recently. Here's some history:

Changed timing belt ~ 4 years ago. Full change, including water pump. It was done incorrectly, and I started hearing grinding noises between 1000 and 1900 RPMs. Had it fixed EXACTLY two years ago (funny how this works out), by changing the timing belt again.

I didn't do the water pump this time, since I hadn't put too much mileage on the engine.

I took my car in for an inspection the other day. I wanted the brakes and suspension looked at, but they did a courtesy rest of car inspection and found some bad stuff:

1) All struts are shot. I suspected this, as the car's handling resembles a fishing boat, and I cant recall ever changing the struts
2) The valve cover is leaking oil, the timing belt is soaked in oil and could slip at any time.

Their suggested fix consisted of:
1) Replace all struts
2) Replace timing belt
3) Replace water pump
4) Replace camshaft and grease seals
5) Replace valve cover gasket

They also tried to sneak in a coolant exchange package. Seems sketchy.

Anyway, for the whole deal they quoted me $2200 on the phone. It's a lot to ask for a car that has between $2-3k value.

I've been thinking of getting a new car - but I'm not sure I want to commit to that yet. I have a good job and make ~60k, but I spend a solid $850/month just on rent and utilities. Adding a $500 car payment on top of that (plus increased insurance) means half my monthly cash flow is gone each month.

Prospects include a used WRX, a new Civic Si or Mazdaspeed3, or a used Accord. $20k is the budget, but even that is a push

Now, I could probably fix the car. It needs a new belt, but the tensioners are good, only 25k on them at the most. The water pump, hard to say. It's probably getting up there.

He quoted me $850 for the timing belt and seals, which seems high, since the last place charged me $640 to change the timing belt.

What do you guys think?

I could afford to do all the work, but I would have to do it in two stages - the timing belt ASAP, and the struts in a month or so. It would be a pitty to retire such a good car for such minor problems, but with high repair cost and low value does it really make financial sense? I'm sure I can squeeze a couple more years out of the Camry. She's got 115k on the clock, and still runs strong...

~MiSfit

 

[Jumpem]

If you can afford the payments I would look at a new Fit or something. I wouldn't put that much money into an elleven year old car.

 

[sniperruff]

i'd fix it to drivable condition and then sell it.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Jumpem
If you can afford the payments I would look at a new Fit or something. I wouldn't put that much money into an elleven year old car.

You'll lose at least $850 driving the brand new car off the lot and add higher insurance and $500 month payments. Economically it makes better sense to fix it. Unless you want a new car because you're sick of it... then thats a different story.

 

[fleabag]

Replacing a valve cover gasket isn't that hard, I think you could do that yourself..eh? Also find out if you have an interference engine or not.

 

[MovingTarget]

Fix it, especially if you can do so yourself. Save your money until later when you absolutely have to have a new car, that way you can have a bigger down payment, saving you a lot in terms of interest. Besides, you would be better off getting a car around 2 yrs old so you'd have the reliability you want without paying all that $$$ for the value that depreciates when you drive it off the lot.

Gaskets, struts, water pump, timing belt - all are somewhat routine for a vehicle that age. If the engine/transmission/body are still in good mechanical shape, then this car will serve you for many years to come. Don't give up on it...

 

[FeuerFrei]

I'd forgo a "new" car personally.

Tell them they'll DO the quoted repairs for half the price, and they'll LIKE it.

My guesses:
Struts $400 + 3 hrs of labor (45 min/strut) = $610
Water pump = $55
Timing belt = $25
Valve cover gasket = $10
4 more hours labor = $280

Sounds like a under $1200 job.

I would also AT LEAST ask for 10% off of what ever price you are quoted. I've had dealerships agree to that in the past.

Pricing struts for your vehicle, I've gotta say, why are Camry struts cheaper than Corolla struts? ($60 vs. $80) No fair. >_<

 

[thedarkwolf]

Option 3
Replace valve cover gasket yourself for $15 and forget everything else .

 

[themisfit610]

Well, the timing belt, gasket, and seals need to be replaced. Period. I can't just replace some seals.

I don't imagine replacing the valve cover gasket is that difficult. I would have to pick up the repair manual for my car and figure out how things work.

I don't have a lot of faith in my ability to fix my car Last time I changed spark plugs I must've done something wrong, because one of them got the bright idea of ejecting itself from the head a few months ago (probably 2 years after I changed the plugs).

I could change the valve cover gasket I bet, but the timing belt? No chance.

Gaskets, struts, water pump, timing belt - all are somewhat routine for a vehicle that age. If the engine/transmission/body are still in good mechanical shape, then this car will serve you for many years to come. Don't give up on it...

Well aware. However, I've done the timing belt twice in the past 4 years - the second time because the first time was done incorrectly.

Doing it AGAIN is kind of brutal...

I'm either buying a used WRX or keeping this sucker. Buying a car is sort of bad timing, because I could only put ~ $2k down right now. Besides, what kind of trade-in could I really get for my car? KBB says $2k in fair condition. Not sure if this qualifies.

~MiSfit

 

[alpineranger]

if you're strapped for cash, just focus on the repairs that will keep the thing running. That means skip the struts altogether. The timing belt has teeth on it, and so even if it's oil soaked it won't slip. Timing belts will fail if they get really loose (eg your tensioner fails) or if the teeth on the belt get sheared off. With a 2 year old belt this doesn't seem likely, even if the belt is soaked in oil. This is in contrast to most other belts which are smooth or have v grooves along the length of the belt. Replace the valve cover gasket yourself, it's easy, and just leave the rest of it alone.

Did you change the spark plugs without a torque wrench? I've heard all sorts of horror stories of both undertorquing (spark plug flies out eventually) or overtorquing (break the spark plug off inside). It seems pretty common.

 

[alpineranger]

if you're strapped for cash, just focus on the repairs that will keep the thing running. That means skip the struts altogether. The timing belt has teeth on it, and so even if it's oil soaked it won't slip. Timing belts will fail if they get really loose (eg your tensioner fails) or if the teeth on the belt get sheared off. With a 2 year old belt this doesn't seem likely, even if the belt is soaked in oil. This is in contrast to most other belts which are smooth or have v grooves along the length of the belt. Replace the valve cover gasket yourself, it's easy, and just leave the rest of it alone.

Did you change the spark plugs without a torque wrench? I've heard all sorts of horror stories of both undertorquing (spark plug flies out eventually) or overtorquing (break the spark plug off inside). It seems pretty common.

 

[themisfit610]

Did you change the spark plugs without a torque wrench?

*embarrassed* yes...

That's exactly what happened. The guys that fixed it told me the threads were actually stripped out, and they had to use heli-coil to repair them. $300 later I was back on the road

You really think that oil on the timing belt isn't a big deal? Valve cover gasket I'm not worried about. I could probably handle it. What about the cam seal and grease seal? I got the repair manual and it looks like those seals require removing the timing belt to get access to... so it looks like if those are leaky, I will have to replace the timing belt.

Also, are there any real risks (other than the rough ride) to having worn out struts?

~MiSfit

 

[alpineranger]

Given the young age of the timing belt and the high cost, I would say that even if it is somewhat compromised, it's worth it to skip the timing belt change at this time. And yes, I guarantee that the timing belt won't slip like other belts when wet or oily.

tires will wear out faster and handling/braking will be compromised if you don't have good struts. not optimal, but you'll still be able to drive it indefinitely.

cam seal necessitates taking of the timing belt.

you can get a torque wrench pretty cheaply or rent one from autozone (free with deposit).

 

[alpineranger]

Given the young age of the timing belt and the high cost, I would say that even if it is somewhat compromised, it's worth it to skip the timing belt change at this time. And yes, I guarantee that the timing belt won't slip like other belts when wet or oily.

tires will wear out faster and handling/braking will be compromised if you don't have good struts. not optimal, but you'll still be able to drive it indefinitely.

cam seal necessitates taking of the timing belt.

you can get a torque wrench pretty cheaply or rent one from autozone (free with deposit).

 

[alpineranger]

Given the young age of the timing belt and the high cost, I would say that even if it is somewhat compromised, it's worth it to skip the timing belt change at this time. And yes, I guarantee that the timing belt won't slip like other belts when wet or oily.

tires will wear out faster and handling/braking will be compromised if you don't have good struts. not optimal, but you'll still be able to drive it indefinitely.

cam seal necessitates taking of the timing belt.

you can get a torque wrench pretty cheaply or rent one from autozone (free with deposit).

 

[themisfit610]

So you suggest

1) me change valve cover gasket (looks simple enough)
2) them change cam seal (which will take a lot of labor because of how hard it is to get to)
3) not worry about struts for now

I wonder how much it would cost...

-MiSfit

 

[themisfit610]

I was quoted $861 to do everything -

valve cover gasket, cam and crank seals, timing belt, water pump, and coolant flush. All OEM parts.

Sounds pretty reasonable when it all comes down to it. I'm calling around to get some other quotes.

 

[themisfit610]

Well, they tried to rip me off... After looking at the chilton manual and speaking to another garage, we determined it's impossible to access the timing belt in any reasonable amount of time under a free inspection. The shop tried to screw me over, and I'm never going back. Submitted a complaint to the better business bureau.

I'll be doing all my work with a reputable shop from now on.

~MiSfit

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: sniperruff
i'd fix it to drivable condition and then sell it.

It's already in drivable condition.

Really changing the seals is all that's needed to keep the car running for the foreseeable future. Sure, it'll handle like crap while the struts are blown, but who cares? It's an econobox.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Fix it,
Drive it another 5 years
Pay cash for a new (used) car
Profit

seriously...

 

[T2urtle]

i would just drive it down to the ground. yea belts can slip off but still about a 30/70 chance of that happening if its that high.

I'm not sure if you seen a timing belt. they are rather thick and the pulley that goes around them are again large. Yea i can see it happening but only in some cases. Its not going to be 100% that it will. I would save money for the time being. If the belt slips then i would make my choice then. I suggest this ONLY because it is a non-interfrence motor, which means belt breaks/ slips the engine will stop but no damage will be done.

The shocks is just a preference. But the way your sounding. dont even get them. Its still safe to drive on blown shocks. Just watch out of potholes and etc.

save up more money for a down.

 

[MovingTarget]

In that case, I'd still say fix it. Good thing you confirmed that about the timing belt though. You have to be careful about your mechanic choices these days.

Let us know what you decide...

 

[dirtboy]

If you're happy with the car and don't mind driving it a few more years, it makes sense to fix it. If you buy another used car, there's no telling what problems it has. At least you are familiar with the work done on this one and what is likely to go bad in the coming years.

 

[themisfit610]

Yeah... I'm going to have the gasket changed, and have the mechanics at this (reputable) shop do an inspection for me.

I'm going to drive this mother trucker until it dies

~MiSfit

 

[StageLeft]

Forget the struts, that's a good way to spend a lot of money.