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Canon EOS 10D - DSLR - PICS - Update 5-18-03
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FM lists average price @ $1,133 for the 70-200/2.8L USM and $1,742 for the 70-200/2.8L IS USM.
DCFife, is that what you're running? Geeeeeze ... Regardless, "L" glass or not, I'd love to see your shots with that Mammoth!!
Thanks!, Yes, this 10D is incredible. Unfortunately, I'm like Frodo when it comes to knowing what to do w/it 😉. But the potential, and my obsession make for a promising experience. It's nice to have a interest that refreshes your perspective and compells you to look beyond what you know.
Even more so do I want one for myself. You'd understand if you'd ever used a Kodak DX3500 (no freaking optical zoom even, and can't take pictures in anything less than bright sunlight). At least I'm lucky enough to have access to a 70's era entirely manual (including the handheld light meter) film SLR with a standard lens (not sure of specs) and a 90-210mm zoom lens (it's awfully long and heavy, despite not being that powerful). Unfortunately, it only focuses to around 1 foot with the standard fixed lens, and I don't have a macro, so that kind of sucks. 🙁
Wallydraigle
Banned
Hi Sketcher. How do you like the Tamron? I've never owned anything made by them, and I've heard mixed reviews. How would you say it compares to the 28-135 IS that you returned image-wise and build quality-wise?
It looks like you're trying out a lot of different things. That's the only way you'll learn really. One thing that can really make an OK picture much better sometimes is to turn the camera 90 degrees so that the picture is vertical, like you did with "Stamen". I think this would have made "Balance" and "Gramps" a lot better too. There's a portrait grip you can get that puts another shutter release on the side that makes this really easy. It's a little steep though at $170, but it does have room for two batteries. You can shoot all day without changing batteries, maybe longer.
Another thing to watch for is those highlights. The 10D/D60 has dynamic range similar to slide film, ie. not very much. In bright light it's better to underexpose by half a stop or so and fix it in software later, than to blow out the highlights. Once something is blown out the color data is gone, and can't be recovered. Sometimes if you're using RAW you can fake it, but it still won't look the same. I noticed in "Look" there are some areas that got a little hot. You might not care just for your family snapshots, and whatnot, but almost all editors are really anal about blown highlights if you ever decide to submit anything, and if you ever do any portrait work, I can assure you that your clients will care. There are very few times when you can get away with it, so it's best to ingrain not doing it into your thought process now will you're still learning.
About the rule of thirds, it's a nice guideline to getting a good composition, but don't let it constrain you. If you decide to get more into macro like you mentioned, you might find that the rule of thirds becomes much less important. Use it whenever you can, but remember that there are times when it will not work for the best. Composition is very subjective and hard to discuss with words. The best thing you can do is to look for photography that you admire, examine the composition, and critique it. Try to figure out what you would do differently. Look at photographs critically and you'll learn a new way to see the world.
You mentioned getting some flash equipment. If you know what you're doing, flash can set you free to create. When photographing with ambient light the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are largely determined for you, but when you carry the sun in your camera bag, you can do whatever you want. Flash does have a learning curve though, and it's probably best to at least learn the basics before you get into it. There are days when I still get get frustrated with flash. The thing is that it's just like computers, if something goes wrong it's because you messed up.
I'm sure you have a lot to think about. Just keep taking pictures and figure what you like and what you need to work on. Eventually the technical stuff will be second nature and you'll be free to develop your style. Keep shooting!
It looks like you're trying out a lot of different things. That's the only way you'll learn really. One thing that can really make an OK picture much better sometimes is to turn the camera 90 degrees so that the picture is vertical, like you did with "Stamen". I think this would have made "Balance" and "Gramps" a lot better too. There's a portrait grip you can get that puts another shutter release on the side that makes this really easy. It's a little steep though at $170, but it does have room for two batteries. You can shoot all day without changing batteries, maybe longer.
Another thing to watch for is those highlights. The 10D/D60 has dynamic range similar to slide film, ie. not very much. In bright light it's better to underexpose by half a stop or so and fix it in software later, than to blow out the highlights. Once something is blown out the color data is gone, and can't be recovered. Sometimes if you're using RAW you can fake it, but it still won't look the same. I noticed in "Look" there are some areas that got a little hot. You might not care just for your family snapshots, and whatnot, but almost all editors are really anal about blown highlights if you ever decide to submit anything, and if you ever do any portrait work, I can assure you that your clients will care. There are very few times when you can get away with it, so it's best to ingrain not doing it into your thought process now will you're still learning.
About the rule of thirds, it's a nice guideline to getting a good composition, but don't let it constrain you. If you decide to get more into macro like you mentioned, you might find that the rule of thirds becomes much less important. Use it whenever you can, but remember that there are times when it will not work for the best. Composition is very subjective and hard to discuss with words. The best thing you can do is to look for photography that you admire, examine the composition, and critique it. Try to figure out what you would do differently. Look at photographs critically and you'll learn a new way to see the world.
You mentioned getting some flash equipment. If you know what you're doing, flash can set you free to create. When photographing with ambient light the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO are largely determined for you, but when you carry the sun in your camera bag, you can do whatever you want. Flash does have a learning curve though, and it's probably best to at least learn the basics before you get into it. There are days when I still get get frustrated with flash. The thing is that it's just like computers, if something goes wrong it's because you messed up.
I'm sure you have a lot to think about. Just keep taking pictures and figure what you like and what you need to work on. Eventually the technical stuff will be second nature and you'll be free to develop your style. Keep shooting!
ElFenix, I hear what you're saying. But for the uninitiate, I'll clarify some of the concerns regarding Film and Digital according to MY usage. Actually, the EOS-1V rings in at $1500. But $600-800 above is what I figure regarding what I'd want in a Film body.
-4x6 Digital prints are approx. .14 cents more expensive depending on media but consider that you're only printing what you want, not whole rolls of who knows what. The cost per print evens out almost immediately - and that's w/out taking into account the fact that you already know which prints you'd like enlarged, you've already done any post processing and just need a final product. That alone saves the second trip to the photo store to get the prints enlarged (assuming they came out the way you wanted).
-Considering the 1500+ photos on my hard drive taken over the last few weeks, I'm certain appreciative of the fact that I didn't have to spend $360.00+ on developing and wait a couple days to see the results of my testing and learning curve. And well over half the pictures I've taken are far superior to anything I've ever shot on film. Plus, I can make adjustments on the fly and immediately see the results of any change in setting. Exif info shortens the learning curve immeasurable and there's just so much more you can do with digital. Oh, I suppose you can scan your film pics or get that photo-disc w/every roll, but then you're paying for hardware and time that really doesn't serve the purpose digital imaging addresses.
-I can post & e-mail these pictures quickly, and family & friends have pictures they can print or process by the time they get home.
-I don't have to worry about my cost per shot. At our last family gathering, a couple other shutterbugs made a comment that I was "shooting like I didn't have to pay for film". Once they saw my results (I loaded them on a laptop) and e-mailed them to family members while still at the event - they began trying to figure out how much they could sell their SLR's for and maintain their lens collection!
-Perhaps for most people, the up front cost of Quality DSLR is prohibitive. But for anyone going through a significant amount of film - there really is no question as to which format is better. My wife and I have easily paid over the cost of the 10D in film processing & photo studios over the last 3.0 years and the savings really are as immediate as I mentioned and increase significantly over time. Being that I intend to become skilled enough to perform our own Portrait work, the savings are worth shooting for.
Hi lirion,
As always, thanks for sharing the knowledge. I?m undecided on the Tamron. I disgarded the IS of the Canon in favor slightly better range. I can?t say that I really noticed the Canon IS in action with the relatively little I shot w/it and my initial images did seem even more soft than what I?m getting from the Tamron (but all of that can be chalked up to inexperience and running Full Auto).
I like the Tamron lens, but realize that I didn?t really have a good feel for the Canon 28-135 IS USM so I really can?t say which I find to be better. To me, the images seem a bit more sharp out of the Tamron than that particular Canon but that could simply be my getting familiar with the camera. Man, now that I think on it ? I?d like another shot at the Canon for comparison.
I?m considering purchasing the BG-ED3 Battery Grip and take advantage of the ?Portrait? positioning of the shutter release and the additional battery storage would be nice. I?m just wondering if waiting a little while will see Canon produce a grip that?s designed more with the 10D in mind (that is with one or two more buttons of functionality). I?ve held the 10D with the grip though, it?s a bit heavier but sure does lend to easier shooting.
I understand about the overexposure/underexposure that you mention and am going to learn to err on the side of underexposure like you suggest. I already notice which shots I can massage in post process and which ones I cannot. A nice feature of the 10D (that I learned reading last night) is that if you press the ?Info? menu on a picture, the LCD while ?Black Mark? overexposed areas so you can determine immediately whether you got your shot or not. I tried this out on the images I posted and it?s spot on. This is a area that I?m still lacking basic knowledge on and is on the hit list for understanding.
Funny, I was just on the phone with my Uncle and he reminded me of the use of rules and standards as well! I agree, it?s good to have a understanding of basic methods but there is much to creative license that does not fall w/in the confines of rules. I really do need to sit down with some good basic books and take a few classes though. There?s just so much about the basics that I do not know and I will certainly better appreciate the experience once I set the groundwork properly. Until then, it sure is fun shooting to the hearts content!! 😀
I?m going to do some learning before I put the Sun in my pocket 😀. I?ll probably by the 550EX as soon as I can afford it, but the rest can wait ?till I know how I want to image and accessorize. One thing, the cost ? gives me time to mull it over and do some reading. I?ve been looking at some of the stuff ?White-Lightening? offers.
I?m having loads of fun, but it sure will be nice when this stuff becomes second nature and the ?fun? can be more productive! In the past, my personal hobbies have always taken me ?away? from family. Now, my hobby directs me more towards the close personal aspect of family. For that alone, I?m reaping incredible reward.
Thanks for the advice and encouragement lirion. Your work is inspiring and your words are well worth waiting for.
Best Regards,
As always, thanks for sharing the knowledge. I?m undecided on the Tamron. I disgarded the IS of the Canon in favor slightly better range. I can?t say that I really noticed the Canon IS in action with the relatively little I shot w/it and my initial images did seem even more soft than what I?m getting from the Tamron (but all of that can be chalked up to inexperience and running Full Auto).
I like the Tamron lens, but realize that I didn?t really have a good feel for the Canon 28-135 IS USM so I really can?t say which I find to be better. To me, the images seem a bit more sharp out of the Tamron than that particular Canon but that could simply be my getting familiar with the camera. Man, now that I think on it ? I?d like another shot at the Canon for comparison.
I?m considering purchasing the BG-ED3 Battery Grip and take advantage of the ?Portrait? positioning of the shutter release and the additional battery storage would be nice. I?m just wondering if waiting a little while will see Canon produce a grip that?s designed more with the 10D in mind (that is with one or two more buttons of functionality). I?ve held the 10D with the grip though, it?s a bit heavier but sure does lend to easier shooting.
I understand about the overexposure/underexposure that you mention and am going to learn to err on the side of underexposure like you suggest. I already notice which shots I can massage in post process and which ones I cannot. A nice feature of the 10D (that I learned reading last night) is that if you press the ?Info? menu on a picture, the LCD while ?Black Mark? overexposed areas so you can determine immediately whether you got your shot or not. I tried this out on the images I posted and it?s spot on. This is a area that I?m still lacking basic knowledge on and is on the hit list for understanding.
Funny, I was just on the phone with my Uncle and he reminded me of the use of rules and standards as well! I agree, it?s good to have a understanding of basic methods but there is much to creative license that does not fall w/in the confines of rules. I really do need to sit down with some good basic books and take a few classes though. There?s just so much about the basics that I do not know and I will certainly better appreciate the experience once I set the groundwork properly. Until then, it sure is fun shooting to the hearts content!! 😀
I?m going to do some learning before I put the Sun in my pocket 😀. I?ll probably by the 550EX as soon as I can afford it, but the rest can wait ?till I know how I want to image and accessorize. One thing, the cost ? gives me time to mull it over and do some reading. I?ve been looking at some of the stuff ?White-Lightening? offers.
I?m having loads of fun, but it sure will be nice when this stuff becomes second nature and the ?fun? can be more productive! In the past, my personal hobbies have always taken me ?away? from family. Now, my hobby directs me more towards the close personal aspect of family. For that alone, I?m reaping incredible reward.
Thanks for the advice and encouragement lirion. Your work is inspiring and your words are well worth waiting for.
Best Regards,
GTaudiophile
Lifer
I meant of ATOT. No one where has a 1Ds to my knowledge.
Here's the equipment I have waiting for the 10D when I get it (all from my EOS A2E collection):
Sigma 70-200/2.8...not the Canon 'L', but sweet just the same
Sigma 1.4x tele-extender to go along with the 70-200
Canon 28-135 IS USM
Canon 50/1.8
Tokina 19-35
Canon 550EX flash
I've been using the 550EX on my G2 for awhile now, but the lenses have been neglected since I turned to digital over a year ago. I've also been sort of hardpressed to decide between the 16-35/2.8 and the soon-to-be-released 17-40/4 to replace my tired old Tokina.
Dave
Edit: I've also got the BG-ED3 grip coming with the camera...I'll let you know how that works out. I had to get it since I couldn't stand not having my VG-10 on my A2E.
PistachioByAzul
Diamond Member
Nice. I just got a 10D myself. Shoot mostly sports.
PistachioByAzul
Diamond Member
Ok 🙂
Canon 10D
Kodak DCS 520 (Canon 1N with Kodak Digital back)
Canon A2
Sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM
Sigma 28-70 2.8
Canon 420EX
Here's a shot I took from the air (a cherry picker) in downtown Vancouver for the Sun Run last month. Took this with my 10d.
Random cool bike shot, more along the lines of what I usually do. This one is film.
Nice shot of the rockies I got from a plane on the way home from a gig in Colorado. Had to touch this one up a bit, it was hazy due to the fact that I had to shoot through two planes of airplane window plastic 🙂. Took this one with the DCS 520.
Canon 10D
Kodak DCS 520 (Canon 1N with Kodak Digital back)
Canon A2
Sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM
Sigma 28-70 2.8
Canon 420EX
Here's a shot I took from the air (a cherry picker) in downtown Vancouver for the Sun Run last month. Took this with my 10d.
Random cool bike shot, more along the lines of what I usually do. This one is film.
Nice shot of the rockies I got from a plane on the way home from a gig in Colorado. Had to touch this one up a bit, it was hazy due to the fact that I had to shoot through two planes of airplane window plastic 🙂. Took this one with the DCS 520.
PistachioByAzul
Diamond Member
All downsampled of course.
EngineNr9,
What are you doin' posting film and non-10D shots!? 😀 kidding. Thanks for showing your wares. How'd you get a seat on the cherry picker for that marathon? Neat opportunity and great shot.
I'd be interested in seeing more of what you get out of your 10D when you have time. How does your 420EX suit you?
DCFife,
How do you like your 28-135 IS USM? Nothing against the Canon but I returned mine for a Tamron SP AF24-135 50th Ann to get a little more on the wide end for slightly less cost. I like the Tamron the more I shoot and I do notice the wider range but I dread that my inexperience may have caused me to undervalue a great lens in the 28-135 IS.
I look forward to hearing what you think of your BG-ED3 and seeing your first work with your new toy 😀.
-Sketch
What are you doin' posting film and non-10D shots!? 😀 kidding. Thanks for showing your wares. How'd you get a seat on the cherry picker for that marathon? Neat opportunity and great shot.
I'd be interested in seeing more of what you get out of your 10D when you have time. How does your 420EX suit you?
DCFife,
How do you like your 28-135 IS USM? Nothing against the Canon but I returned mine for a Tamron SP AF24-135 50th Ann to get a little more on the wide end for slightly less cost. I like the Tamron the more I shoot and I do notice the wider range but I dread that my inexperience may have caused me to undervalue a great lens in the 28-135 IS.
I look forward to hearing what you think of your BG-ED3 and seeing your first work with your new toy 😀.
-Sketch
PistachioByAzul
Diamond Member
420EX is fine, little underpowered. For that cherry picker, I was with the race taking pictures.
Well, if he can only barely get by with that, I doubt my film SLR shots would go over too well. Oh well, I'll just have to come back and post in this thread three years from now when I'll have finally gotten a Canon EOS 10D (by that time it should have dropped in price enough that I could afford one, and I should have enough money then to buy it at that price). 😱
[Update 5-17-03]
Removed Direct links and referenced PBase for the pics!
http://www.pbase.com/sketcher
Comments and critiques welcome 🙂.
-Sketch
Removed Direct links and referenced PBase for the pics!
http://www.pbase.com/sketcher
Comments and critiques welcome 🙂.
-Sketch
Sweet pics. Any full resolution ones?
I just got a Canon S45 last week. Nothing special like the EOS but it's nice.
Here's some pics I've taken. 50% downsampled. I need to get a gallery like you have.
Little creek
Flies getting busy
12:20
Dog Chow
African Safari
View from the nosebleeds
Fast pitch
Royals win!
Moon hiding behind leaves
Iditarod Team: Solomon, Stetson, and Buffy
Solomon chillin'
Portrait of a Butterfly
Butterfly Backside
351st Street
Toolbox and matching Dreamcar
Nice Air
Carrot Kiss
Work In Progress
Afterparty Evidence
Back home. Top of Richmond
I just got a Canon S45 last week. Nothing special like the EOS but it's nice.
Here's some pics I've taken. 50% downsampled. I need to get a gallery like you have.
Little creek
Flies getting busy
12:20
Dog Chow
African Safari
View from the nosebleeds
Fast pitch
Royals win!
Moon hiding behind leaves
Iditarod Team: Solomon, Stetson, and Buffy
Solomon chillin'
Portrait of a Butterfly
Butterfly Backside
351st Street
Toolbox and matching Dreamcar
Nice Air
Carrot Kiss
Work In Progress
Afterparty Evidence
Back home. Top of Richmond
Those are some nice pics deftron, and with a sweet camera that doesn't call for a 2nd mortgage! 😀. Do you have any more of the "Work in Progress" or the horses?
Right now I'm just using the pbase.com free trial and am limited to 10MB (which is why only small images are posted right now). I'll upload originals (2.0+ MB files) if I decide to subscribe to the site. I like that pbase allows you to upload larger files and users can choose which size of the picture they'd like to view - And EXIF info is auto loaded.
If there are any images in particular you're interested PM an addy and I'll send you the original. I'm not shooting much RAW yet - so the originals are just Large/Fine jpeg at around 2.0 MB.
-Sketch
deftron:
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/deftron/IMG_2402.jpg that image is AWESOME!
http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/deftron/IMG_2402.jpg that image is AWESOME!
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