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Discussion Cancel Culture - Good or Bad?

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
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This article articulates well the use and impact of the so-called cancel culture.

“For nearly a decade, conservative outlets have highlighted meaningless anecdotes to advance narratives about “campus political correctness gone wrong” and “free speech under attack.” Beyond absurd slippery-slope arguments, they have never provided any evidence that these issues are worthy of the nation’s attention.

“Cancel culture” is nothing more than the latest repackaging of the argument that the true threat to liberalism resides not in lawmakers or large corporations but in overly sensitive college students and random social media users. It is no more sophisticated than the “war on Christmas” and has the same goal: to imply that those pushing back against injustice are equivalent to the injustice itself.”

 

SmCaudata

Senior member
Oct 8, 2006
555
579
136
Is there a difference between "cancel culture" and when conservatives boycott things they disagree with?
Well yes. If liberals do it, it's bad. If conservatives do it, it is necessary to fight the bad liberals. /s

The conservatives have done it for decades. "Activist judges" can only be used to label liberal judges, while any conservative legislation from the bench is perfectly fine.

As you point out, cancel culture is nothing more that the new way to boycott. Conservatives are afraid because they make it their policy ti squash the voice of the individual in order to keep the status quo power structure. Any threat to that needs to be destroyed.
 
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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
53,460
5,760
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"Cancel culture" is the new "political correctness." Both are terms used by assholes who cry about the social consequences for being assholes.

There is no such thing as "cancel culture." It is a myth created in an attempt to validate the lamentations of bigots and jerks for when a FREE society rejects them.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
19,263
10,071
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I recall the outrage from conservatives when Focus on the Family and One Million Moms called for boycotts of companies for running advertisements on tv shows they didn't like because they dared to have gay characters or say naughty words.

Never mind, just realized it was all a dream (the outrage part) not the boycotts.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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First I think it's important to distinguish things.

What I see today:

1) Calls for "Classic Boycott" - meaning "Don't watch this show", or "Don't buy this product". This is more rare - and I don't really consider it part of the cancel culture.

2) Calls for individuals to be fired - This is part of the new cancel culture IMO. Naturally, the company fires the individual person because they don't want the spotlight for damage control and they have no problem chopping off one head regardless of whom is at fault.

3) Calls and social media activism to attempt to get withdraw advertisers from a product, service, or TV show/channel. This is part of the cancel culture IMO. This is more of social media morons putting large corporations in uncomfortable positions by saying "OMG You advertise on FOX NEWS! WHY ARE YOU ASSOCIATED WITH AND ACTIVELY ENDORSING THESE RACISTS!!!?!".

It doesn't make any actual sense - but advertisers will often obey because they just don't want spotlight as mentioned in #2.


Cancel culture is a real thing though, see the cases with folks like Brett Weinstein at Evergreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Weinstein

And see the case of Nicholas Christakis from Yale regarding snowflakes about Halloween costume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Christakis#:~:text=-2284-y.-,Free speech advocacy,the defense of free expression.&text=At Yale, in 2015, they,the regulation of Halloween costumes.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,243
3,474
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First I think it's important to distinguish things.

What I see today:

1) Calls for "Classic Boycott" - meaning "Don't watch this show", or "Don't buy this product". This is more rare - and I don't really consider it part of the cancel culture.

2) Calls for individuals to be fired - This is part of the new cancel culture IMO. Naturally, the company fires the individual person because they don't want the spotlight for damage control and they have no problem chopping off one head regardless of whom is at fault.

3) Calls and social media activism to attempt to get withdraw advertisers from a product, service, or TV show/channel. This is part of the cancel culture IMO. This is more of social media morons putting large corporations in uncomfortable positions by saying "OMG You advertise on FOX NEWS! WHY ARE YOU ASSOCIATED WITH AND ACTIVELY ENDORSING THESE RACISTS!!!?!".

It doesn't make any actual sense - but advertisers will often obey because they just don't want spotlight as mentioned in #2.


Cancel culture is a real thing though, see the cases with folks like Brett Weinstein at Evergreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Weinstein

And see the case of Nicholas Christakis from Yale regarding snowflakes about Halloween costume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Christakis#:~:text=-2284-y.-,Free speech advocacy,the defense of free expression.&text=At Yale, in 2015, they,the regulation of Halloween costumes.
Explain why option 3 does not make any sense other than your opinion.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Explain why option 3 does not make any sense other than your opinion.
It's just my opinion. From what I've seen plenty of the accusations are just either:

1. Outright lies or exaggerations
2. From a far distant past where it doesn't reflect what the current times are (Gee who would have thought what was/is politically correct now will change in 20 years - see PM of Canada blackface, Jimmy Kimmel Carl Malone blackface, sarah silverman blackface, etc. etc..)
3. In relation to #1 - like I said, plenty just aren't true. They are just loud-frothing of the mouth and the company naturally says "Okay, let's sacrifice this lamb to appease the witch-hunters". They don't care to know the truth, they just want out of the spotlight - and that's a big problem.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,243
3,474
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It's just my opinion. From what I've seen plenty of the accusations are just either:

1. Outright lies or exaggerations
2. From a far distant past where it doesn't reflect what the current times are (Gee who would have thought what was/is politically correct now will change in 20 years - see PM of Canada blackface, Jimmy Kimmel Carl Malone blackface, sarah silverman blackface, etc. etc..)
3. In relation to #1 - like I said, plenty just aren't true. They are just loud-frothing of the mouth and the company naturally says "Okay, let's sacrifice this lamb to appease the witch-hunters". They don't care to know the truth, they just want out of the spotlight - and that's a big problem.
You'd be surprised. Some capitalists have morals and also live in the reality of now.
 

SmCaudata

Senior member
Oct 8, 2006
555
579
136
It's just my opinion. From what I've seen plenty of the accusations are just either:

1. Outright lies or exaggerations
2. From a far distant past where it doesn't reflect what the current times are (Gee who would have thought what was/is politically correct now will change in 20 years - see PM of Canada blackface, Jimmy Kimmel Carl Malone blackface, sarah silverman blackface, etc. etc..)
3. In relation to #1 - like I said, plenty just aren't true. They are just loud-frothing of the mouth and the company naturally says "Okay, let's sacrifice this lamb to appease the witch-hunters". They don't care to know the truth, they just want out of the spotlight - and that's a big problem.
Asking sponsors to not support someone was here before people coined the term "cancel culture." Also, frankly this is free market capitalism that the right likes to claim they love. If someone wants to run a business they better know their audience.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Asking sponsors to not support someone was here before people coined the term "cancel culture." Also, frankly this is free market capitalism that the right likes to claim they love. If someone wants to run a business they better know their audience.
Yes, but prior to social-media spotlight - you had to:

1) Send a letter and hope they acknowledge it. OR...
2) Convince a reputable media company to do research and report on your complaint to get it in the public spotlight.

Now you just loud-mouth accusations via Twitter/Social media without any actual evidence - or repercussions if your accusations aren't true. It's entirely different.
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,327
1,343
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Yes, but prior to social-media spotlight - you had to:

1) Send a letter and hope they acknowledge it. OR...
2) Convince a reputable media company to do research and report on your complaint to get it in the public spotlight.

Now you just loud-mouth accusations via Twitter/Social media without any actual evidence - or repercussions if your accusations aren't true. It's entirely different.
How about you did not purchase the product or support the company? Then you tell anyone around you what you do not like. In the past you could tell a select circle around you, you could change people’s minds. It could swell and has in many instances.

Insert Florida Citrus Commission spokeswoman Anita Bryant. This was well before social media.

“The fallout from Bryant's political activism hurt her business and entertainment career.[3] In February 1977, the Singer Corporation rescinded an offer to sponsor a possible weekly variety show because of the "extensive national publicity arising from [Bryant's] controversial political activities."[34]

Bryant's marriage to Bob Green also failed at that time, and in 1980 she divorced him, citing emotional abuse and latent suicidal thoughts.[35] Green refused to accept this, saying that his fundamentalist religious beliefs did not recognize civil divorce and that she was still his wife "in God's eyes". In 2007, Green stated: "Blame gay people? I do. Their stated goal was to put her out of business and destroy her career. And that's what they did. It's unfair."[36]”


Today social media amplifies it like it does misinformation. Do not confuse the two. Capitalism’s defining strategy: If you do not take care of your customer, someone else will.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,635
7,703
126
First I think it's important to distinguish things.

What I see today:

1) Calls for "Classic Boycott" - meaning "Don't watch this show", or "Don't buy this product". This is more rare - and I don't really consider it part of the cancel culture.

2) Calls for individuals to be fired - This is part of the new cancel culture IMO. Naturally, the company fires the individual person because they don't want the spotlight for damage control and they have no problem chopping off one head regardless of whom is at fault.

3) Calls and social media activism to attempt to get withdraw advertisers from a product, service, or TV show/channel. This is part of the cancel culture IMO. This is more of social media morons putting large corporations in uncomfortable positions by saying "OMG You advertise on FOX NEWS! WHY ARE YOU ASSOCIATED WITH AND ACTIVELY ENDORSING THESE RACISTS!!!?!".

It doesn't make any actual sense - but advertisers will often obey because they just don't want spotlight as mentioned in #2.


Cancel culture is a real thing though, see the cases with folks like Brett Weinstein at Evergreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Weinstein

And see the case of Nicholas Christakis from Yale regarding snowflakes about Halloween costume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Christakis#:~:text=-2284-y.-,Free speech advocacy,the defense of free expression.&text=At Yale, in 2015, they,the regulation of Halloween costumes.
How is any of that not just free speech? And as such, doesn't that make you the snowflake trying to silence speech because you disagree with it?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,635
7,703
126
How about you did not purchase the product or support the company? Then you tell anyone around you what you do not like. In the past you could tell a select circle around you, you could change people’s minds. It could swell and has in many instances.

Insert Florida Citrus Commission spokeswoman Anita Bryant. This was well before social media.

“The fallout from Bryant's political activism hurt her business and entertainment career.[3] In February 1977, the Singer Corporation rescinded an offer to sponsor a possible weekly variety show because of the "extensive national publicity arising from [Bryant's] controversial political activities."[34]

Bryant's marriage to Bob Green also failed at that time, and in 1980 she divorced him, citing emotional abuse and latent suicidal thoughts.[35] Green refused to accept this, saying that his fundamentalist religious beliefs did not recognize civil divorce and that she was still his wife "in God's eyes". In 2007, Green stated: "Blame gay people? I do. Their stated goal was to put her out of business and destroy her career. And that's what they did. It's unfair."[36]”


Today social media amplifies it like it does misinformation. Do not confuse the two. Capitalism’s defining strategy: If you do not take care of your customer, someone else will.
It's hard for me to feel bad for Anita when her goal was to have gay people outlawed and imprisoned or killed. It's only 'totally unfair' that gay people destroyed her career if you ignore that fact.

But I completely with your last paragraph. People who believe that corporate America caves into 'cancel culture' or 'political correctness' because of some 'liberal agenda' are fucking paranoid delusional morons. The only things corporate America cares about are getting more paying customers and more talented employees to serve those customers. And turning away paying customers for bigoted reasons, or allowing some employees to disrupt the workplace with bigoted bullshit, are both bad for business and the bottom line even without any publicity. That's what these entitled bigoted idiots can't seem to figure out.
 
Last edited:
Nov 8, 2012
17,643
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How is any of that not just free speech? And as such, doesn't that make you the snowflake trying to silence speech because you disagree with it?
I didn't say silence it, and I didn't say it wasn't free speech. That wasn't anywhere in my post. But you DO realize that libel/slander is against the law, right? It's just not easily enforced unless you have a pile of cash to pursue legally - and even then going after a bunch of anonymous individuals online isn't really possible.

Look - I get it - you're going to go with your classic argument of "free speech doesn't mean X"

But until you experience shit like this yourself, you're never going to understand it based on how you reply. I hope it doesn't happen to you - but sincerely try to imagine something like you being falsely accused of a rape - or anything that is a misrepresentation of you. You get tarred and feathered - without even a trial, and you're fired from your job. But it's just free speech right? No big deal.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
53,460
5,760
126
I didn't say silence it, and I didn't say it wasn't free speech. That wasn't anywhere in my post. But you DO realize that libel/slander is against the law, right? It's just not easily enforced unless you have a pile of cash to pursue legally - and even then going after a bunch of anonymous individuals online isn't really possible.

Look - I get it - you're going to go with your classic argument of "free speech doesn't mean X"

But until you experience shit like this yourself, you're never going to understand it based on how you reply. I hope it doesn't happen to you - but sincerely try to imagine something like you being falsely accused of a rape - or anything that is a misrepresentation of you. You get tarred and feathered - without even a trial, and you're fired from your job. But it's just free speech right? No big deal.
As I said, assholes lamentations for the social consequences of their speech.

Tell me, without taking anyone else's freedoms away, how do you stop this mythical "cancel culture?"

Because what I see when I hear of complaints about "cancel culture" I hear people complaining against the freedom of association of people who disagree with you, the freedom of speech of people who disagree with you, and the freedom of private property of social media companies and private businesses in general.

There is no such thing as "cancel culture." There is merely a pathetic attempt by assholes to try and mitigate the social consequences for being an asshole.

And to date, I have YET to hear a "solution" to "cancel culture" that doesn't require someone else's freedoms be limited.

Which is ironic coming from the "small government" conservatives and libertarians.

Let's rename it what it really is: The rejection of assholes by the FREE MARKET.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,500
3,260
126
For decades now conservatives have been hard at work on the moral crusade of destroying liberals, the agents of God seeking to destroy the agents of the devil bases on the delusional moral certainty they and only they know what the real good is. And now, via social media, liberals have a means to fight back. The morally certain now get to be destroyed by the equality and justice passionate. The disgusted have become the disgusting. We create what we fear and what conservatives fear is that their certainty will be seen for what it really is, the fear of remembering how they came to have Stockholm syndrome. The hate filled have become the hated. Enjoy your rewards. Never treat the least among us as lepers.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,635
7,703
126
I didn't say silence it, and I didn't say it wasn't free speech. That wasn't anywhere in my post. But you DO realize that libel/slander is against the law, right? It's just not easily enforced unless you have a pile of cash to pursue legally - and even then going after a bunch of anonymous individuals online isn't really possible.

Look - I get it - you're going to go with your classic argument of "free speech doesn't mean X"

But until you experience shit like this yourself, you're never going to understand it based on how you reply. I hope it doesn't happen to you - but sincerely try to imagine something like you being falsely accused of a rape - or anything that is a misrepresentation of you. You get tarred and feathered - without even a trial, and you're fired from your job. But it's just free speech right? No big deal.
I'm all for making it easier for people to sue in cases of legitimate cases of libel or slander, but those are much rarer than I think you would have us believe.
Because almost all of the time, the words 'cancel culture' are used to intentionally silence free speech, such as that people can't boycott a particular product, or employers shouldn't 'cave in to PC' by firing a disruptive employee. And the best part of that is when term 'cancel culture' is used by hypocrites who burn their Nikes and want people fired for being gay/black/female/etc. But you just keep on using those rare exceptions to try to silence speech you disagree with. And I'll let Hillary know you're really really concerned about libel and slander.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,635
7,703
126
As I said, assholes lamentations for the social consequences of their speech.

Tell me, without taking anyone else's freedoms away, how do you stop this mythical "cancel culture?"

Because what I see when I hear of complaints about "cancel culture" I hear people complaining against the freedom of association of people who disagree with you, the freedom of speech of people who disagree with you, and the freedom of private property of social media companies and private businesses in general.

There is no such thing as "cancel culture." There is merely a pathetic attempt by assholes to try and mitigate the social consequences for being an asshole.

And to date, I have YET to hear a "solution" to "cancel culture" that doesn't require someone else's freedoms be limited.

Which is ironic coming from the "small government" conservatives and libertarians.

Let's rename it what it really is: The rejection of assholes by the FREE MARKET.
Fun fact: the new catchphrase among RWNJs and the alt-right on twitter, etc is that 'leftist speech' isn't protected by 1a because it's a 'political agenda' or 'political terrorism.'
This is where the great alt-right free speech warrior revolution has led us to: an ignorance of the 1a so fucking profoundly authoritarian that they think the 1a doesn't protect political speech. But conveniently only the political speech they disagree with.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,500
3,260
126
Fun fact: the new catchphrase among RWNJs and the alt-right on twitter, etc is that 'leftist speech' isn't protected by 1a because it's a 'political agenda' or 'political terrorism.'
This is where the great alt-right free speech warrior revolution has led us to: an ignorance of the 1a so fucking profoundly authoritarian that they think the 1a doesn't protect political speech. But conveniently only the political speech they disagree with.
Inevitable for people who are certain they are right........... For such people the consideration that their personal beliefs could vary from reality is blocked by the fear of reliving what happened to them when they questioned authority (the absolutes that were made to be real by inculcation by putdowns and pain) as children.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,835
6,293
136
Gonna necro this thread for the latest example of hypocritical cancel culture from the right:


Texas gov. and other conservatives wanting 8th grade teacher fired for supplying a cartoon as part of an assignment which seems to compare modern police with KKK and slave owners. What the cartoon is suggesting is that police are used as a tool to enforce white supremacy just as others were in the past.

It's a debatable point but calling for termination of the teacher because these conservative pols don't like the viewpoint suggested by some of the materials given to students is exactly what they are complaining about as a feature of the left.

Abbott called for the teacher who gave the assignment to be fired and asked for an investigation by the Texas Education Agency.
"A teacher in a Texas public school comparing police officers to the KKK is beyond unacceptable," the governor tweeted. "It's the opposite of what must be taught."
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,933
9,717
146
"cancel culture" is just a word to describe what conservatives have been engaged in for centuries. From boycotts, to social consequences, the only problem conservatives have with is when it's turned on them.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
76,577
9,703
126
Conservatives love democracy except when they dont get what they want. Then they whine about abuse.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
53,460
5,760
126
Conservatives love democracy except when they dont get what they want. Then they whine about abuse.
This isn't even democracy. It's is literally free market capitalism. Libertarian style individual freedom.

Freedom of private property. Freedom of association. Economic freedom. Freedom of speech.

That's it.

They're literally whining about other people's freedom to tell them to fuck off.
 

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