(Canadian) Build: Cheap as Free™ MMORPG Box w/ SSD

[Rattlin Bones]

12/28 Update: Latest build/questions in post #12 here.


Build below.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

MMORPG gaming machine for my wife. Stability is key. She does not need to run the latest & greatest at ultra quality; just mainstream titles at acceptable framerates. Her only desire is a SSD (no HDD needed for now; media storage is on her laptop).

2. What YOUR budget is.

Cheap as Free™. Whatever I can get away with. Up to $800, but why spend that much if I don't have to? So trying for cheaper. OS needed, GPU is not.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

Canada. Will likely order online from NCIX.

4. IF YOU have a brand preference.

None whatsoever. Just want the best stability and value for my budget.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

Yes. Geforce 8800 GS GPU, that's all. It's served me well, and will be enough for her for now. Down the line we'll upgrade her to something better; probably the HD 6850 or 6870 I'm about to upgrade to myself.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.

Done a ton of research at different sites/forums. Most are pushing me to get an i3 2100 or even an i5, but I'm pondering whether it's necessary even though the i3 2100 would provide the best performance and upgradability for my buck.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

Default all the way. No muss, no fuss. She's not a PC hobbyist, and I don't want to tinker.

8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.

She'll be running at 1680x1050.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?

Now; as soon as NCIX's December 14th deals pop up.

Cheap as Free™ idea I'm throwing around:

CPU: Athlon II X3 450 ($80; the 455 is $7 more)
Mobo: Any decent Asus/Gigabyte/Biostar/MSI microATX board. ($65 linked)
PSU: 500w+ from a trustworthy brand. ($60 linked; can probably get in excess of 500w on sale for this price or less.)
GPU: 8800 GS reuse ($0)
RAM: Kingston ValueRAM 2x4GB ($38; 8GB is overkill, but considering the price difference, why not?)
SSD : Intel 320 120GB sata2 ($208; retail is a bit more, any reason to go that route if case doesn't need bracket?)
Optical: Whatever DVD-RW is on sale. ($25 or so.)
Case: A decent NZXT/Coolermaster/etc. she likes the look of. ($55 for linked Zalman Z9 Plus.)
OS: Windows 7 64bit Home Premium ($120)

Total: $651 CAD plus tax and shipping, before rebates/price matching/deals of the week.


So, how stupid is that? Fork over another $50 plus probably $15 for a better mobo, and I have a Phenom II X4 955 BE. If I do that, I might as well add another $15 and go for an i3 2100.

I think I just talked myself out of this dumb idea.

I welcome your specific mobo and PSU recommendations if you care to browse NCIX's selection, but I don't expect it of anyone. Pretty much my selection process will be: "Oh, that seems like it meets our needs. And it's as cheap as possible. And I recognize the brand, and it has few DOA reviews."

That said:

1. Regardless of which route I go, is it worth fussing over boards/chipsets? Lots of Intel options, but she doesn't need USB or Sata 3 really, and the reality is that by the time the system needs upgrading, there will be a newer, better budget socket available. Might as well go with best value decent brand H61 or AM3 option?

2. 500w PSU should be enough for her, no? Nothing else is being added to the board. Even when the GPU is upgraded to whatever, it's just CPU+GPU. Like I said, with whatever comes up on sale, we might wind up with a 600w+ option for the same price anyway.

3. Tossed and turned over SSDs and potential Sandforce issues. The reality is that NCIX doesn't carry Samsung or Crucial in the size we need (120GB+), and the Intel 320 sata2 is about all we can afford. It's already the most expensive component in the build, but she wants it, I'm excited to see it in action, and she doesn't need a HDD right now anyway (and they're expensive due to the shortage). No reason not to go OEM on the SSD, right? It's still apparently covered by the Intel 5-year warranty.

Thanks!

 

[mfenn]

I think that I'd still go Intel. Games and general web browsing will benefit from having a faster dual-core versus a slower triple-core. A 400W PSU is also fine for even the most "power hungry" GPU that you listed. With that in mind (links to Newegg.ca because NCIX's search sucks too hard to bother using their site, feel free to pricematch):

Pentium G620 $70
Biostar H61MGC $55
Corsair DDR3 1333 8GB $35
reuse 8800 GS
Crucial M4 128GB $220 - much faster than the 320
Samsung DVD Burner $17
430CX $40 AR
Non-fugly case (aka Antec Three Hundred) $60
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit $110
Total: $607 AR

 

[Rattlin Bones]

Thanks! At this point I'm leaning toward dropping a little extra cash on the i3 2100.

The only thing tempting about the 955 BE is that my own machine is AM3, so we'd be apple to swap components in a pinch. But when the i3 2100 is only $17 more than the 955 BE, doesn't seem to make much sense. Unless we think her future gaming would really benefit from the extra cores, but I just don't know.

 

[General Kenobi]

The rig will be obsolete before the extra cores from 955 BE come into play. Get the i3 2100 if you have the cash, it'll work better with most MMOs anyway.

Do yourself a favor though, and go for some other brand than Cooler Master. They use various other companies to build some of their PSUs and then just slap their sticker on them. Seasonic, Corsair, and Antec are good and reliable brands.

The Seasonic SS-400ET 400W is on sale at NCIX for 49.54$ (OEM, 1.79$ extra for a power cable). That PSU is both reliable and powerful enough. If you're wondering about the power consumption, here's an example system:

Standard Mobo (Asus et al)
Core i3 2100
GeForce 8800 GS
2 Sticks of DDR3 RAM
Intel SSD
DVD-RW/CD-RW Combo

That will draw around 230W, recommended PSU power for hypothetical maximum would be 280W. The 400W one that I linked is rated at 360W on the 12 volt rail, which is actually a lot more than you need. And it's 80 PLUS certified.

 

[Rattlin Bones]

Great recommendations, thanks. A follow up question:

1.

The Seasonic SS-400ET 400W is on sale at NCIX for 49.54$ (OEM, 1.79$ extra for a power cable). That PSU is both reliable and powerful enough.

If we wound up upgrading her to, say, a 6870 though, some of the specs ask for 500W. Perhaps that's an overestimation on their part, I'm not sure. You both advised only a 400W, though.

Three others in the price range, just going on sale last night, that I'd love a quick contrasting opinion on:

Corsair Builder Series CMPSU-500CXV2 500W ($50) (mfenn's recommendation, but beefier)
Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W 24PIN ATX 12V V2.2 80PLUS Modular ($55)
Antec High Current Gamer 520W 40A 24PIN ATX12V V2.3 Active PFC 80 Plus Bronze ($60)

I accept that overkill is not necessary, but wondered if any of these would be preferable.


2. Does the i3 2100 come with pre-applied thermal interface material, or do I need to pick up a tube of Arctic Silver? Bear in mind no overclocking to be done.

3. A strong preference on any one of these cases?
Bitfenix Merc Alpha Steel ($35)
Coolermaster Elite 310 ($46)
NZXT Gamma ($50)
Zalman Z9 Plus ($55)

If other recommendations are far superior, I'll accept your wisdom. But these are some that my wife has expressed interest in design/aesthetics wise. (With the exception of the Bitfenix; thought I'd stick it in the mix because of the sale/some good reviews.) I may try to push Antec 300 ($58) or the HAF 912 on her if you decree them far superior.

 

[lehtv]

6870 technically needs a 500W unit because 430W and lower units don't have two PCIe connectors. It'd still be manageable on a single-rail 430W unit if you used an adapter, as a 6870 only consumes about 140W.

If you count in rebates, you could get an XFX 450W for $35 AR or an XFX 650W for $45 AR. The 650W unit is certainly overkill but at least you'd have all bases covered e.g. you could add a more powerful GPU later or reuse it in a different build like a crossfire setup etc. And it's only $10 more. Both with 5-yr warranty as opposed to 3 on the others mentioned. FWIW the 450W unit falls a bit short on the +12v voltage regulation compared to its bigger brother but overall a decent unit.

Edit: Does the i3 2100 come with pre-applied thermal interface material, or do I need to pick up a tube of Arctic Silver? Bear in mind no overclocking to be done.

The retail i3-2100 comes with a heatsink and thermal paste.

 

[Rattlin Bones]

Is XFX (or whomever their PSU manufacture is) considered as trustworthy? And the 450W does have the two PCIe connectors? I presume so from your explanation, but I didn't see it confirmed in the listed specs, so just wanted to be sure.

4. The i3 2120 is only $5 more than the 2100. Is it preferable?
Edit: Actually, I found your own answer in another thread, lehtv. Pretty much just looking at 6.5% clock speed increase. Not major, but for $5 a no-brainer. Are there any other factors to consider?
Edit 2: Nix that; i3 2100 is on sale for $120 and the 2120 is $143. No longer as appealing.

 

[fffblackmage]

Is XFX (or whomever their PSU manufacture is) considered as trustworthy? And the 450W does have the two PCIe connectors? I presume so from your explanation, but I didn't see it confirmed in the listed specs, so just wanted to be sure.

AFAIK, all current models of XFX PSUs are made by Seasonic - definitely trustworthy.

400W is plenty for your 6850, especially since this isn't some PoS crap-brand PSU.

 

[lehtv]

Is XFX (or whomever their PSU manufacture is) considered as trustworthy? And the 450W does have the two PCIe connectors? I presume so from your explanation, but I didn't see it confirmed in the listed specs, so just wanted to be sure.

The XFX 450W has one PCIe connector just like almost all other sub-500W PSUs. The XFX 650W has four PCIe connectors.

 

[mfenn]

Is XFX (or whomever their PSU manufacture is) considered as trustworthy? And the 450W does have the two PCIe connectors? I presume so from your explanation, but I didn't see it confirmed in the listed specs, so just wanted to be sure.

You can use a Molex to PCIe power adapter, it works fine. Hell, people on this have run 5850's on 430CX with no issue. A 430CX will be fine with a 6870. Lehtv's XFX 450W is a better deal IMHO, so you should go with that.

 

[General Kenobi]

Great recommendations, thanks. A follow up question:

1.
If we wound up upgrading her to, say, a 6870 though, some of the specs ask for 500W. Perhaps that's an overestimation on their part, I'm not sure. You both advised only a 400W, though.

Three others in the price range, just going on sale last night, that I'd love a quick contrasting opinion on:

Corsair Builder Series CMPSU-500CXV2 500W ($50) (mfenn's recommendation, but beefier)
Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W 24PIN ATX 12V V2.2 80PLUS Modular ($55)
Antec High Current Gamer 520W 40A 24PIN ATX12V V2.3 Active PFC 80 Plus Bronze ($60)

I accept that overkill is not necessary, but wondered if any of these would be preferable.

I didn't notice if the XFX 450W that lehtv recommended was on sale when I was browsing the PSUs, but it's definitely a better deal than my earlier suggestion, as it's both cheaper and more powerful, and like pointed out by fffblackmage, it's currently being produced by Seasonic like my earlier suggestion, just for a different brand name. Get the XFX 450W or 650W if you're ok with rebate items. I'll leave the wattage decision for you to consider, although like pointed out, the 450W will suit your wife's current needs without being overkill, and will support a 6870 (with an adapter) like mfenn said.

2. Does the i3 2100 come with pre-applied thermal interface material, or do I need to pick up a tube of Arctic Silver? Bear in mind no overclocking to be done.

It comes with pre-applied thermal paste and a heatsink/cooler. Just make sure that you get the boxed version, not the OEM one (chip only).

3. A strong preference on any one of these cases?
Bitfenix Merc Alpha Steel ($35)
Coolermaster Elite 310 ($46)
NZXT Gamma ($50)
Zalman Z9 Plus ($55)

If other recommendations are far superior, I'll accept your wisdom. But these are some that my wife has expressed interest in design/aesthetics wise. (With the exception of the Bitfenix; thought I'd stick it in the mix because of the sale/some good reviews.) I may try to push Antec 300 ($58) or the HAF 912 on her if you decree them far superior.

With the setup you're going with and no overclocking, get the Zalman Z9 Plus. It supports GPUs up to 11.4" and has decent fan support (top & front panels also support 140mm fans).

 

[Rattlin Bones]

First of all, my thanks for all your previous help! It's really been illuminating.

Secondly, due to a payroll mishap, I wasn't able to purchase the system two weeks ago. I'd love your opinion on what I've put together to order now, using updated sales. I've managed to keep it all on NCIX for simplicity's sake, but will definitely comparison shop before placing the order.

CPU: i3 2100 ($120)
MB: H61/67/Z68 MSI or Gigabyte; some options below, would like help deciding. ($80-$115)
PSU: XFX 450W Core Edition ($55; $35 AR)
GPU: 8800 GS reuse ($0)
RAM: 2x4GB @ 1.5V; some options below, would like help deciding. ($40 approx)
SSD : Crucial M4 Micron C400 128GB SATA3 ($200)
Optical: Samsung SH-S243D/BEBE 24X ($16)
Case: Zalman Z9 Plus ($61; $51 AR)
OS: Windows 7 64bit Home Premium ($90)

Total: $697 CAD + tax/shipping; not including $30+ MIRs, presuming most expensive MB option.


Unresolved decisions:

1) RAM - There are some kits presumably superior to Kingston Value on sale right now; I've narrowed it down to these two:

Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 Vengeance 2X4GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 1.5V ($40) - No rebate to fuss with, but some have complained about its height; think I'm okay with stock i3 cooling? Obviously I'm not overclocking at all, but why not get better RAM for cheaper?
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline Frostbyte PC3-12800 2X4GB DDR3-1600 9-9-9-24 1.5V ($43; $38 AR) - Only benefit off the bat I notice is the standard size.


2) Motherboard - Unlike my initial build, we're now using a SATA3 SSD, which is nice. Other than that, I have no special requirements; don't expect to ever upgrade to more RAM or more than one GPU. Stereo sound is enough; won't be the main multimedia PC. Would like to be able to use the CPU video in a pinch, but that's it.

MSI H61MA-E35 (B3) H61 mATX LGA1155 DDR3 1PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 SATA3 USB3 HDMI DVI VGA ($80) - SATA3 and USB3 for4 $80? Sounds good to me!

Gigabyte Z68M-D2H mATX LGA1155 Z68 DDR3 2PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 HDMI DVI CrossFireX SATA3 ($105) - No USB3. Has CF and 4 RAM slots, but I don't anticipate ever using those.

Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3 mATX LGA1155 Z68 DDR3 3PCI-E16 1PCI-E1 HDMI DVI SLI SATA3 USB3.0 ($115) SATA/USB3; three GPU slots are overkill, but no one says I have to use them all.

For my uses, any reason to go with anything but the $80 MSI? How important do you think it is to have the Z68 chipset? Certainly open to other brands/models, but these are the most suitable I found on NCIX.


3) PSU - Bearing in mind our previous discussions, just in case down the line I wound up handing down as powerful as a 6950 or 560Ti, do you think the XFX 450W would still cut it? Previously we were only talking 6870, but the more powerful cards can be up to 200W under load, right?


Thanks as always!

 

[T_Yamamoto]

RAM: cheapest ddr3 1600 rak

MoBo. get the AsRock mATX board. called the pro-m or something

PSU: you could get a higher rated PSU...?
and then get a 560 ti

 

[mfenn]

First of all, my thanks for all your previous help! It's really been illuminating.

No problem.

Secondly, due to a payroll mishap, I wasn't able to purchase the system two weeks ago. I'd love your opinion on what I've put together to order now, using updated sales. I've managed to keep it all on NCIX for simplicity's sake, but will definitely comparison shop before placing the order.

CPU: i3 2100 ($120)
MB: H61/67/Z68 MSI or Gigabyte; some options below, would like help deciding. ($80-$115)
PSU: XFX 450W Core Edition ($55; $35 AR)
GPU: 8800 GS reuse ($0)
RAM: 2x4GB @ 1.5V; some options below, would like help deciding. ($40 approx)
SSD : Crucial M4 Micron C400 128GB SATA3 ($200)
Optical: Samsung SH-S243D/BEBE 24X ($16)
Case: Zalman Z9 Plus ($61; $51 AR)
OS: Windows 7 64bit Home Premium ($90)

Total: $697 CAD + tax/shipping; not including $30+ MIRs, presuming most expensive MB option.

These parts all look fine.

Unresolved decisions:

1) RAM - There are some kits presumably superior to Kingston Value on sale right now; I've narrowed it down to these two:

Corsair CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 Vengeance 2X4GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 1.5V ($40) - No rebate to fuss with, but some have complained about its height; think I'm okay with stock i3 cooling? Obviously I'm not overclocking at all, but why not get better RAM for cheaper?
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline Frostbyte PC3-12800 2X4GB DDR3-1600 9-9-9-24 1.5V ($43; $38 AR) - Only benefit off the bat I notice is the standard size.

Get the least expensive DDR3 1333/1600 1.5V. A quick perusal of NCIX's selection seems to indicate that either of those two are among the least expensive. I would personally get the Mushkin so that I didn't have to worry about tall heatspreaders.

2) Motherboard - Unlike my initial build, we're now using a SATA3 SSD, which is nice. Other than that, I have no special requirements; don't expect to ever upgrade to more RAM or more than one GPU. Stereo sound is enough; won't be the main multimedia PC. Would like to be able to use the CPU video in a pinch, but that's it.

MSI H61MA-E35 (B3) H61 mATX LGA1155 DDR3 1PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 SATA3 USB3 HDMI DVI VGA ($80) - SATA3 and USB3 for4 $80? Sounds good to me!

Gigabyte Z68M-D2H mATX LGA1155 Z68 DDR3 2PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 HDMI DVI CrossFireX SATA3 ($105) - No USB3. Has CF and 4 RAM slots, but I don't anticipate ever using those.

Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3 mATX LGA1155 Z68 DDR3 3PCI-E16 1PCI-E1 HDMI DVI SLI SATA3 USB3.0 ($115) SATA/USB3; three GPU slots are overkill, but no one says I have to use them all.

For my uses, any reason to go with anything but the $80 MSI? How important do you think it is to have the Z68 chipset? Certainly open to other brands/models, but these are the most suitable I found on NCIX.

The H61 looks fine to me. You obviously wouldn't be able to OC, but you can't do that with an i3 anyway.

3) PSU - Bearing in mind our previous discussions, just in case down the line I wound up handing down as powerful as a 6950 or 560Ti, do you think the XFX 450W would still cut it? Previously we were only talking 6870, but the more powerful cards can be up to 200W under load, right?

The 450W would be fine with any midrange card up to the 6870. Future midrange cards are unlikely to need any more power. If you think that you might be getting a GTX 560 Ti or 6950 2GB, then yes, you should probably get a 550W or higher like the XFX Core 550W or 650W.